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      03-31-2018, 04:10 AM   #1
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Carwow XC60 vs Q5 vs X3

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      04-01-2018, 08:17 AM   #2
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Thanks for sharing. I thought this was a decent comparison with good facts. I've never driven any of the competition but it would be nice to see what the air suspension is like in this class of SAVs. There are tons of new Q5s my neighborhood and my neighbor has a new Q5S.
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      04-04-2018, 05:41 PM   #3
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Really excited to see the X3M. Would definitely be interested in owning one
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      04-04-2018, 07:48 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ando View Post
Thanks for sharing. I thought this was a decent comparison with good facts. I've never driven any of the competition but it would be nice to see what the air suspension is like in this class of SAVs. There are tons of new Q5s my neighborhood and my neighbor has a new Q5S.
Air suspension is great for the original owner/lessee .... eventually. however.. . the air bladders will fail... giving the vehicle that 3 wheel motion.. or side to side gangsta lean... we've all seen it on six to ten year old Mercedes E , S , and R class vehicles... along with American SUVS like Lincoln Navigators and Ford Expeditions... it really doesn't take long for these systems to fail and they fail more quickly in hot climates.

http://danirangelov.blogspot.com/201...tic-level.html

I would rather go with magnetic adjustable dampers that shouldn't fail completely like air suspension.


I agree...overall i am really enjoying the carwow reviews.

According to the final analysis.. The BMW edges the other two out on

1- interior quality
2- technology
3- overall drive

that sounds like a slam dunk.
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Last edited by M3 Adjuster; 04-04-2018 at 08:19 PM.
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      04-04-2018, 09:50 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Air suspension is great for the original owner/lessee .... eventually. however.. . the air bladders will fail... giving the vehicle that 3 wheel motion.. or side to side gangsta lean... we've all seen it on six to ten year old Mercedes E , S , and R class vehicles... along with American SUVS like Lincoln Navigators and Ford Expeditions... it really doesn't take long for these systems to fail and they fail more quickly in hot climates.

http://danirangelov.blogspot.com/201...tic-level.html

I would rather go with magnetic adjustable dampers that shouldn't fail completely like air suspension.


I agree...overall i am really enjoying the carwow reviews.

According to the final analysis.. The BMW edges the other two out on

1- interior quality
2- technology
3- overall drive

that sounds like a slam dunk.
Um... Before you slam dunk, how about including a current Volvo xc60. The model they used is being sunset. Based on my V90 test drive, the new generation Volvo's are pretty nice.
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      04-04-2018, 10:09 PM   #6
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In my books, Volvo is not on the same level with BMW.
Yeah, they can claim it and ask the price, yet, no cigar.

On the other hand, we have the new X3 as a loaner from BMW and while the chassis is ok and engine seems to be wonderful, I am not impressed at all, actually quite surprised how down the quality of the interior got.

Just few points:
- the panoramic roof cover is not a proper hard, with accoustic and thermic insulation unit, but rather a cloth that is already saggy! The car has 2300 km on board. The new X1 is the same, but X3? Our E84 X1 is way above in many aspects, and the panoramic roof cover is hard, sturdy and with a perfect finish that leaves no room to insert a toothpick.
- the A pillars are finished with a very cheap and odd looking material, like pantyhose. terrible choice visually and tactile wise.
- the plastic in the top (dome lights panel) is flimsy and cheap; I had quite a shock actually
- the door handles have sharp edges (literally) and the connection between the elements is not smooth and perfect. Like my girl said, you can cut your hands in those. very unpleasant. IS THIS LUXURY???
- the plastic on the steering wheel is also cheap and not nice looking. Probably will prefer simple black or nice painted metal instead of a chromed plastic that is very prone to peel off.
- the compass is not in the mirror anymore so you need to choose that from the dash computer, but that will take away, your consumption display or the mileage; Pick one! BAD JOKE BMW! I want the compass on, and other info as well.
- The ride is nice and comfortable, however I run some moose test on it and the chassis is not that planted. Curves that E84 will take them easy with 90 km/h the X3 can do it at 60/ forced 70 km/h.
- It is spacious on the height, yet is too much, they culd make it a little bit lower to lower the center of gravity.
- the start stop button is the most annoying thing I ever experienced and that millisecond that needs to restart the engine is a hard pill to swallow. Will not buy it for that thing only!
- the hatch button is on the mirror panel on the door and my girl opened twice the hatch instead of adjusting the mirror. Annoying.
That's what I gather so far, love the ride but I think the quality got down and if that happens on the X3 level which is not the entry level, don't know what to say....

And since the new X1 is FWD we were playing with the X4 idea. Not sure now....
Just wish for the 1 series four door hatch to be available in North America.

Last edited by Tracus; 04-04-2018 at 10:20 PM.
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      04-04-2018, 10:36 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcva View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Air suspension is great for the original owner/lessee .... eventually. however.. . the air bladders will fail... giving the vehicle that 3 wheel motion.. or side to side gangsta lean... we've all seen it on six to ten year old Mercedes E , S , and R class vehicles... along with American SUVS like Lincoln Navigators and Ford Expeditions... it really doesn't take long for these systems to fail and they fail more quickly in hot climates.

http://danirangelov.blogspot.com/201...tic-level.html

I would rather go with magnetic adjustable dampers that shouldn't fail completely like air suspension.


I agree...overall i am really enjoying the carwow reviews.

According to the final analysis.. The BMW edges the other two out on

1- interior quality
2- technology
3- overall drive

that sounds like a slam dunk.
Um... Before you slam dunk, how about including a current Volvo xc60. The model they used is being sunset. Based on my V90 test drive, the new generation Volvo's are pretty nice.
It is the new XC60 in the video?
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      04-04-2018, 10:39 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracus View Post
In my books, Volvo is not on the same level with BMW.
Yeah, they can claim it and ask the price, yet, no cigar.

On the other hand, we have the new X3 as a loaner from BMW and while the chassis is ok and engine seems to be wonderful, I am not impressed at all, actually quite surprised how down the quality of the interior got.

Just few points:
- the panoramic roof cover is not a proper hard, with accoustic and thermic insulation unit, but rather a cloth that is already saggy! The car has 2300 km on board. The new X1 is the same, but X3? Our E84 X1 is way above in many aspects, and the panoramic roof cover is hard, sturdy and with a perfect finish that leaves no room to insert a toothpick.
- the A pillars are finished with a very cheap and odd looking material, like pantyhose. terrible choice visually and tactile wise.
- the plastic in the top (dome lights panel) is flimsy and cheap; I had quite a shock actually
- the door handles have sharp edges (literally) and the connection between the elements is not smooth and perfect. Like my girl said, you can cut your hands in those. very unpleasant. IS THIS LUXURY???
- the plastic on the steering wheel is also cheap and not nice looking. Probably will prefer simple black or nice painted metal instead of a chromed plastic that is very prone to peel off.
- the compass is not in the mirror anymore so you need to choose that from the dash computer, but that will take away, your consumption display or the mileage; Pick one! BAD JOKE BMW! I want the compass on, and other info as well.
- The ride is nice and comfortable, however I run some moose test on it and the chassis is not that planted. Curves that E84 will take them easy with 90 km/h the X3 can do it at 60/ forced 70 km/h.
- It is spacious on the height, yet is too much, they culd make it a little bit lower to lower the center of gravity.
- the start stop button is the most annoying thing I ever experienced and that millisecond that needs to restart the engine is a hard pill to swallow. Will not buy it for that thing only!
- the hatch button is on the mirror panel on the door and my girl opened twice the hatch instead of adjusting the mirror. Annoying.
That's what I gather so far, love the ride but I think the quality got down and if that happens on the X3 level which is not the entry level, don't know what to say....

And since the new X1 is FWD we were playing with the X4 idea. Not sure now....
Just wish for the 1 series four door hatch to be available in North America.

Very interesting qualitative comparison with the E84 X1... which I also own. Like you I'm disappointed with the F48 X1 and was hoping to find a similar but slightly larger of everything in the new X3. I'll be awaiting the X3M model and hope that they fine tune some of the rough edges That or the performance of it should be enough to make it stand apart.
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      04-04-2018, 10:44 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcva View Post

Um... Before you slam dunk, how about including a current Volvo xc60. The model they used is being sunset. Based on my V90 test drive, the new generation Volvo's are pretty nice.
I'm very impressed with the XC40 actually. That looks like a fun Ute. So if the new upcoming XC60 is more of that .. then it deserves a look for sure..but that will be an entirely different thread
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      04-04-2018, 10:55 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeKay View Post
It is the new XC60 in the video?
Yes it is. Someone is mistaken but it goes to show that the XC60 is not very remarkable appearing, unlike the XC90.

I'll be interested in an SQ5 vs X3 M40i comparison. I think I already know how it goes though: SQ5 luxury with plenty of sport. X3 M40i sporty with plenty of luxury. I'll also agree that Carwow is putting out fantastic videos over the last year or so.
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      04-04-2018, 11:51 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcva View Post
Um... Before you slam dunk, how about including a current Volvo xc60. The model they used is being sunset. Based on my V90 test drive, the new generation Volvo's are pretty nice.
It’s the latest XC60
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      04-05-2018, 12:50 AM   #12
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Very interesting qualitative comparison with the E84 X1... which I also own. Like you I'm disappointed with the F48 X1 and was hoping to find a similar but slightly larger of everything in the new X3. I'll be awaiting the X3M model and hope that they fine tune some of the rough edges That or the performance of it should be enough to make it stand apart.
Intresting yes, because the E84 is all hard plastic inside, and very cheap overall.
Yes, i have owned the E84, it's a little crossover, but i now owns the F25, and the quality is miles above the E84, but so again is the new X3 from my F25, leaving my F25 in the dust.
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      04-05-2018, 12:50 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeKay View Post
It is the new XC60 in the video?
Yes it is. Someone is mistaken but it goes to show that the XC60 is not very remarkable appearing, unlike the XC90.

I'll be interested in an SQ5 vs X3 M40i comparison. I think I already know how it goes though: SQ5 luxury with plenty of sport. X3 M40i sporty with plenty of luxury. I'll also agree that Carwow is putting out fantastic videos over the last year or so.
I actually think the Volvo is gorgeous and way better looking than both the Germans - They really just need to stop those hideous fake exhaust pipes
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      04-05-2018, 01:33 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeKay View Post
I actually think the Volvo is gorgeous and way better looking than both the Germans - They really just need to stop those hideous fake exhaust pipes
They have made big leaps in deed. But, the SW with the transmission is poor, and so is the UI with the infotainment system, it looks great, but doesn't always work great, or is as easy to use as the idrive from the BMW.
But it has the eyecandy. But the first idrive wasn't great either, so it will mature and get better by each generation imo.
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      04-05-2018, 02:54 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by X4guy View Post
Itís the latest XC60
Headlights looked a little round when glancing at the image from my phone. Should have watched more of the video... My bad.
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      04-05-2018, 07:26 AM   #16
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Intresting yes, because the E84 is all hard plastic inside, and very cheap overall.
Yes, i have owned the E84, it's a little crossover, but i now owns the F25, and the quality is miles above the E84, but so again is the new X3 from my F25, leaving my F25 in the dust.
Well, plastic is in both. Where the X1 has plastic, so does the X3. Central console is the same. The dash material on the E84 makes it look more refined due to a different granulation of the material, which makes it feel softer.
The E84 door panels arm rest pads are cushiony in a different way than the new X3 which is cushiony in a rubber way (cushion versus soft rubber I guess).
The plastic handles are similar, yet, the X1 has a such a fit finish without any gap, that you wonít feel that is cheap and will not cut your palms when you are using is.
My X1 has the Piano finish all over, while the new X3 has some finish but a lot more silver plastic that looks really a little bit off. On the E84 X1, that silver is present only on the Navi knob base and the shifterís frame and my Navi knob silver base peeled off after first two years, yet was replaced in warranty by BMW.
The overall material that covers the A pillars, roof panel, panoramic roof cover, ALL is a high quality and thicker dense material in the E84. The new X3 not only that it uses three different materials ( the A pillar uses a pantyhose like material, the panoramic sunroof uses a saggy thin cover which is not even opaque to perfectly keep the light outside, and the rest is also a different material), but is A LOT cheaper than the old X1. The lack of uniformity in color nuances and materials screams cheap to me. From this point of the E84 X1 is way above
The interior carpet on the E84 X1 has a higher viasual quality to me than the new X3, and in the X1 looks like a perfect shaved pile carpet while the X3 looks like a commercial one, but both are nice.
The sunvisors on the E84 are this vinyl that is still softy and cushiony while the new X3 ones are hard plastic. The interior courtesy mirror eyelids are also a better feel and finish than the new X3.

Looking deeper I found many things to be cheaper on the new and more expensive machine.
I am quite keen on these things and have dealth with many materials in time since I am very anal when it somes to cleaning and maintenance and I do my own detailing.

My X1 was a special order with beige interior so not sure if that makes a difference but the materials that are inside and the whole interior are very good for its class and they donít feel cheap to me. I really find the interior very nice and well put with a proper fit and finish. Given its class and the price I paid for it when I bought it brand new, I believe that I got a good quality vehicle.

What I am trying to emphasize is that the X3 should be way above in many aspects, yet, my first impressions are not on the positive side, especially for the price.

Will a special order interior with a different color be different in materials? Donít know, but I really hope so.
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      04-05-2018, 08:03 AM   #17
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Coming from an F34 3 series, I can say that the materials are superior in the G01. However, the materials in my E92 M3 were far better than in the G01.

In the past BMW concentrated on providing a great driving experience, at the expense of luxury touches (E30 and E36) and was conservative in their adoption of tech. With the E9x they improved finishes to the point where they were very close to Mercedes.

With the F3x they seemed to be going for a low cost/price point to gain market share. Some of the interior materials suffered, but the tech that was available (not necessarily as standard kit) was leading edge. I found much of the feel of my F34 to be cheap.

The G01 is a lot better. That said, it is a "sports family vehicle". It is not a luxury sedan. It is meant to hold up to scuba gear in the back, toddlers throwing toys about, plants from the garden centre and bags of soil in the boot.

I suspect that the X3M will offer a full leather package, alcantara roof liner, a sunroof delete (CF instead), and a lower ride height.

I have driven the new X1. It is a lot noisier, less luxurious, the surfaces are not as "premium" as the X3, and it lacks power. On the positive side it was easier to fit in the narrow, short parking spot that I have in my garage. If I were going to compromise on the smaller transverse engine platform I would have bought a Mini Countryman. At least I could have spec'd a proper manual transmission in the JCW version.
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      04-05-2018, 10:40 AM   #18
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If you seriously consider an XC-60 - be sure its a T6, and compare the price of a well equipped T6 to both the 30i and M40i X3. You may not find the XC60 to be much a of a deal when you are done adding features to it.

The T5 (turbo but not super charged engine) is priced well, but the performance is inadequate. Turbo lag and jerky hard acceleration were just painful. That engine has no business in an SUV.
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      04-05-2018, 11:25 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg2step View Post
If you seriously consider an XC-60 - be sure its a T6, and compare the price of a well equipped T6 to both the 30i and M40i X3. You may not find the XC60 to be much a of a deal when you are done adding features to it.

The T5 (turbo but not super charged engine) is priced well, but the performance is inadequate. Turbo lag and jerky hard acceleration were just painful. That engine has no business in an SUV.
Iḿ actually looking at the V90 for which BMW has no competition. The interior and drivability were very nice in the T6 trim level. I assumed that passed through to the new XC60 since theyŕe standardizing brand feel. The numbers for the V90 comfortably loaded are fine for me.
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      04-05-2018, 11:28 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcva View Post
Iḿ actually looking at the V90 for which BMW has no competition. The interior and drivability were very nice in the T6 trim level. I assumed that passed through to the new XC60 since theyŕe standardizing brand feel. The numbers for the V90 comfortably loaded are fine for me.
Too bad we can't get the 540 Touring in North America.

I looked at the V90 - would have loved to get it with the T8, but it was too long for my spot in the garage.
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      04-05-2018, 12:36 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by marcva View Post
Iḿ actually looking at the V90 for which BMW has no competition.
I've driven a V90 as a rental car (in the Netherlands). It was a T5, and driving it was very comfortable, I was actually impressed by the engine, of course there are no mountains in the Netherlands, plus everyone else has cars with very small engines due to astronomical gas prices I was not that impressed by the touch screen system, it wasn't very intuitive. I'm sure that the 5 series touring handles way better, but indeed it isn't available in the USA.
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      04-05-2018, 02:18 PM   #22
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ron_jeremy View Post
Intresting yes, because the E84 is all hard plastic inside, and very cheap overall.
Yes, i have owned the E84, it's a little crossover, but i now owns the F25, and the quality is miles above the E84, but so again is the new X3 from my F25, leaving my F25 in the dust.
Well, plastic is in both. Where the X1 has plastic, so does the X3. Central console is the same. The dash material on the E84 makes it look more refined due to a different granulation of the material, which makes it feel softer.
The E84 door panels arm rest pads are cushiony in a different way than the new X3 which is cushiony in a rubber way (cushion versus soft rubber I guess).
The plastic handles are similar, yet, the X1 has a such a fit finish without any gap, that you won't feel that is cheap and will not cut your palms when you are using is.
My X1 has the Piano finish all over, while the new X3 has some finish but a lot more silver plastic that looks really a little bit off. On the E84 X1, that silver is present only on the Navi knob base and the shifter's frame and my Navi knob silver base peeled off after first two years, yet was replaced in warranty by BMW.
The overall material that covers the A pillars, roof panel, panoramic roof cover, ALL is a high quality and thicker dense material in the E84. The new X3 not only that it uses three different materials ( the A pillar uses a pantyhose like material, the panoramic sunroof uses a saggy thin cover which is not even opaque to perfectly keep the light outside, and the rest is also a different material), but is A LOT cheaper than the old X1. The lack of uniformity in color nuances and materials screams cheap to me. From this point of the E84 X1 is way above
The interior carpet on the E84 X1 has a higher viasual quality to me than the new X3, and in the X1 looks like a perfect shaved pile carpet while the X3 looks like a commercial one, but both are nice.
The sunvisors on the E84 are this vinyl that is still softy and cushiony while the new X3 ones are hard plastic. The interior courtesy mirror eyelids are also a better feel and finish than the new X3.

Looking deeper I found many things to be cheaper on the new and more expensive machine.
I am quite keen on these things and have dealth with many materials in time since I am very anal when it somes to cleaning and maintenance and I do my own detailing.

My X1 was a special order with beige interior so not sure if that makes a difference but the materials that are inside and the whole interior are very good for its class and they don't feel cheap to me. I really find the interior very nice and well put with a proper fit and finish. Given its class and the price I paid for it when I bought it brand new, I believe that I got a good quality vehicle.

What I am trying to emphasize is that the X3 should be way above in many aspects, yet, my first impressions are not on the positive side, especially for the price.

Will a special order interior with a different color be different in materials? Don't know, but I really hope so.
Well, 10.000 Words trying to praise the E84 and bash the G01, i'm impressed!
I'm happy your happy with your E84 Keep it up!within the two years i had my E84 x-drive 20da, i think the strong points is how it drives, since it's such a low suv, it's basicly a crossover, rather than a SUV, due to it's heights.
But trying to bash the new generation BMW due to it's lower quality - coming from previous generations is... really silly.
The point is, the new generation of 5 series, the 7 and the new X3 are really up to Audi level, something this very test goes to show. Past generations of BMW haven't had this high quality interiour level. BMW have always been about the drive, it's engines and chassi. Back in the late 90's when the E39 and E46 came along, they had awsome build quality. Since then BMW didn't really excel in interiour quality. But right now, they are really back where they belong imo.
Besides, a 1 series and X1 are entry level vehicles, allthoug belonging to a premium brand, they have a simpler quality to them than the 3 series and X3. In fact, the G01 is really into 5 series territory with it's excellent interiour.
__________________
3 series: E30: 89 325i, E36: 92 325iC, 94 320iC, 96 320i Convertible, 94 320iaC, E46: 99 320ia, E90: 06 318i Le mans, E91: 07 318dt
5 series: E39: 97 520ia, 01 530Dat, E61: 09 520Dat
X series: E83 05 X3 2.0d, E84 10' X1 2.0 X-drive DA, F25 13' 2.0da X-drive.
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