[left123]

Good morning.

I am selling my e90 as my wife is having our 3rd child. We have a van for the bulk of travel but I need to have a car that can fit 3 car seats and the e90 330i isn't going to cut it (though this site says it's 'possible').

Has anyone here had experience with the new bodystyle Mazda 6 from 2014-on? Specifically I am looking at the manual.

Just trying to get something that is still fun, good on gas and can accommodate 3 car seats.

Thoughts?

[John 070]

I would say of course one has to be practical, so get it if you've done your research. But an e90 has so little value today, just keep that to commute with or when you don't need all the car seats. I think carfax says my 335i is worth $8k, what sense would it make to trade it for a Mazda? With the need for a new carseat, I'd add a car, not get rid of one for the other. I don't see how a Mazda could even compare, it's a 4 cyl, right? Like in the 175 hp/tq ballpark. I've driven a newer 3, and I just don't think it's even fair to compare it to a BMW.

[left123]

Originally Posted by John 070

I would say of course one has to be practical, so get it if you've done your research. But an e90 has so little value today, just keep that to commute with or when you don't need all the car seats. I think carfax says my 335i is worth $8k, what sense would it make to trade it for a Mazda? With the need for a new carseat, I'd add a car, not get rid of one for the other. I don't see how a Mazda could even compare, it's a 4 cyl, right? Like in the 175 hp/tq ballpark. I've driven a newer 3, and I just don't think it's even fair to compare it to a BMW.

I generally would agree that I would just keep it, but I both need the money from the sale (however meager it may be) for the new car and I do not have the space for 3 cars unfortunately.

[K9Leader]

Three car seats across one row of seats is tough - I never had to do more than two and my kids are now 27 and 29 so it was a long time ago. I know your car guy instincts are kicking in and you want something interesting/fun/quick. I had to suppress those instincts for a few years and drove hatchbacks, station wagons, and minivans for a number of years. You do what you gotta do.

I don't know about the current generation Mazda 6, but our 2004 Mazda 6 (6 cylinder) was/is a great car (wife drove it for 8 years and my son has had it since). We have owned 3 Mazdas and they were among the best cars we've ever owned. What I've read of the current 6 is that it is the most fun-to-drive in its market (mid-size family sedans). I believe that sometime soon they will be offering a turbocharged engine for 250 HP, but that doesn't help you if you need one now or don't want/can't go new.

I've also owned Subarus and they are great for what they are designed for. If you are looking for something with some sleeper quickness, a turbocharged Forester or a 3.6 liter Outback might work. I do not know how three car seats would fit, but that is their market so it is likely possible. Also, especially with the Forester, there is the possibility of modding it with some WRX go-fast parts.

Good luck!

K9Leader

[blueloco]

This is going to sound weired, but have you compared Dodge? The Charger is fitted with the same ZF8 transmission as a lot of BMW's and it is an excellent transmission. The 3.6L Pentastar V6 is a great engine with loads of power. Quality has improved quite a bit and the prices are right. There are at least a few euro inspired qualities. I own the Durango with that drive-line and have been really pleased with it's performance. The Durango benefited from the Mercedes/Daimler suspension which I don't think made it to the cars but the powertrain they have lined up is great.

[Pladi]

They are phenomenal cars. I have owned 3 mazdas before the bmw and we still have a 2012 mazda 3. They are just bulletproof. Mazda skyactive engine is amazing.

[norsairius]

Cars.com did a check and here's what they came up with:
https://www.cars.com/articles/2013/0...ar-seat-check/

At the end of the article:

How many car seats fit in the second row? Two

Editor's note: For three car seats — infant-safety seat, convertible and booster seats — to fit in a car, our criterion is that a child sitting in the booster seat must be able to reach the seat belt buckle. Parents should also remember that they can use the Latch system or a seat belt to install a car seat.

A dealership should let you try to fit your seats before buying if you want to try that. However, despite the fact that sedans are growing in size these days for the most part, so are child safety seats. It may be difficult to fit three seats in the back row. Some combinations of seats may work though. Maybe try asking in a Mazda forum?

Otherwise, I've only read good things about Mazdas and that they're fun to drive. I test drove the new CX-9 late last year and was impressed at how fun it was considering its size. I'm actually considering one for lease/purchase in the next year or so.

Most complaints about Mazdas these days generally point to a lack of power, which is unfortunately true. The new 250hp Mazda 6 though should address those complaints, but from what I've read that motor won't be offered with a manual transmission.

[Phyrexia]

Zoom Zoom. You'll not regret it.

[delmarco]

Originally Posted by John 070

I would say of course one has to be practical, so get it if you've done your research. But an e90 has so little value today, just keep that to commute with or when you don't need all the car seats. I think carfax says my 335i is worth $8k, what sense would it make to trade it for a Mazda? With the need for a new carseat, I'd add a car, not get rid of one for the other. I don't see how a Mazda could even compare, it's a 4 cyl, right? Like in the 175 hp/tq ballpark. I've driven a newer 3, and I just don't think it's even fair to compare it to a BMW.

You'd be surprise. Many modern day 4 cylinders can be turbo-ed and supercharged to put out above 250HP to 300HP.

A few of my neighbors have the Mazda 6 and love it. Once you have occupied baby seats in the back I doubt the ability of going fast and switching up lanes Fast & Furious style is your biggest concern.

If you have the budget for it our Mercedes GLE 350 is fast, safe, roomy and practical with great MPGs! You probably can find a 2016/2017 CPO model for the same price as a new Mazda 6!

[TemjinX2]

i say get a 1yr old cpo or lease. new mazdas depreciate as bad as bmws

[mecheng77]

Mazdas disintegrate worse than any other car by a long shot in my area. They have many class action lawsuits for severe corrosion

[HiRev335i]

I can vouch for that if you live in a area that uses salt on the roads through out winter mazdas do not just rust they rot! I would never buy one for that reason.

[Thorin]

We (my wife and I) have a 2016 Sport (Auto), with leatherette- Because kids. My wife and I opted for the lowest configuration you can get (sans MT). We looked at Hyundai/Kia offerings (snoozefests), and Honda Accord (shallow footwells, uncomfortable seating, and the dealer loved smelling their own Honda-branded farts too much too want to deal). We bought ours brand new, mostly because the price point was viable enough to not have to deal with issues from buying something used (I'm sorry, "pre-owned" ).

The interior fit, finish, and features are a phenomenal value (I love the stitched dashboard). Even the wheel feels very nice in your hands, with the controls in the right places generally; I get tripped up on the light switch (old-school on the end of the turn signal stalk), and the trunk release/hood release/gas door release are all jammed in the left footwell, so a few times I've accidentally had the trunk unlatched when driving down the road. Don't worry- a nanny will warn you of it. More disturbing was when we had someone drive us, and they unlatched the hood when meaning to unlatch the trunk and didn't notice until the next day. Minor inconveniences on those few items that won't affect your overall enjoyment.

The infotainment system is not bad; the location puts the touchscreen on the top of the dash, where it is susceptible to the suns rays, so when parked on really hot days it will auto-disable due to heat until the cabin cools down. We resolved that by buying a $30 sun shade from the dealer. The touchscreen won't work natively when driving, leaving you to use the dial pod in the center console (it's a decent interface!). The touchscreen speed limitation can be programmed out, as well as the startup legal disclaimer, if you are so keen. Similarly if you want to buy the GPS maps aftermarket you can do that as well, but the last time I checked it was a couple of hundred. The base speakers are good, much deeper than the BMW Professional stereo I have. We use HD Radio, CD, and Pandora via BT, all which sound more than satisfactory.

Seating comfort, the fully powered driver's seat is very nice, albeit a little flat on the seat and back. The bolsters are decent, somewhere between the BMW sport seats and BMW std seats, which is just right for a sporty sedan- deep enough to hold in tight turns, but not too deep that they are uncomfortable to get in and out. For long trips I've never dealt with stiffness, and at most a mild numbness that goes away after a few paces restores bloodflow to the buttocks. The manually-adjustable passenger seat is... OK, I guess (again, we compromised on this to get a good price). Not much for seat adjustment, and knee room is hindered by the glove box when a rear-facing car seat is installed. The Mazda6 is way roomier inside for the kids in the back seat, with long doors and a wide passenger footwell to allow them to get in and out. We are using a front-facing car seat and a child booster. The car seat intrudes a bit on the center seating, so three car seats may be tight (unless you choose a narrow car seat). And oh yeah- no center seat hump. For the booster, the seatbelt buckle is built into the seat. Budget for a seatbelt extender to help the little ones out. The high beltlines and wide C-pillar limit the view for shorter passengers compared to the e90, although the car seat and booster lift the little ones up to give them ample sight lines.

Trunk space is fairly long, but a tad shallow between the trunk deck and the trunk floor. We've been able to get my kid's bike in there (w 18" wheels), and a small cooler and a few bags all at once. We've been spoiled in this department from both the wagon and the deep-trunked Saab, so it's a bit of finagling to get things to fit for long trips.

As for the driving, it's a good commuter. We average 24 mpg with mostly in-town driving and some freeway in non-Sport mode. There is a toggle switch by the Auto shifter that puts it into Sport mode, changing the shift points for the transmission and keeps the revs higher. A slight annoyance is that the Sport mode switch is dangerously close to the electronic parking brake switch, meaning there is a bit of hesitancy when reaching down to hit the fun button that I might grab the parking brake instead. I sport mode the car really opens up a bit; nothing too ridiculous, but enough to open your eyes a bit as compared to other vehicles in the segment. The high-compression I4 has a throaty note, if not a bit raspy. This, coupled with the weight savings of thinner floor pans and less sound deadening, can make road noise reveal itself more than you may be used to in the BMW. The engine is just about right for the car (I can't imagine what a slog it must be in the heavier CUVs though). I would like some more oomph, but the wife and kids get upset when I punch it. When they are not in the car I can hit the gas from a standstill, and it's...ok, I guess, in that it will put you back a little, but there definitely isn't a neck-snapping acceleration that ties itself to all the noise from the motor. Once you are moving it does a good job of keeping you moving. That weight savings is a good tradeoff for improved handling though. The key thing is that it is a largish and wide car for what it is, that behaves like a much smaller car in the handling department. The suspension is taught, with no kidney-punishing judder when going over bumps, and maybe a little float on the suspension recoil. Attacking turns is not a problem, but the added width left me nervous of scratches from an intrusive branch on some of the tighter, twistier stuff.

For your specific case, I'd recommend it save for the car seat consideration. Again, three wide may be difficult, and as norsairius said it would be best to fit it prior to deciding. If you do decide on getting one from a dealer, the recent announcement of the upcoming turbo should give you lots of purchasing power in haggling over the base configuration/motor.

[Jesda]

Mazdas have always been very rewarding to drive for the price and decently dependable. But the thinner paint and steel used in the late 90s through mid 2000s caused them to corrode quickly.

[mecheng77]

Originally Posted by Jesda

Mazdas have always been very rewarding to drive for the price and decently dependable. But the thinner paint and steel used in the late 90s through mid 2000s caused them to corrode quickly.

It was poor quality steel and a very thin layer of galvanizing
Way less than what is found on European cars.

I wouldn't touch a Mazda with a ten foot pole until they have proven to improve
Every neighbor on my street that has one had severe rust, some only after 5yrs.
Rust is virtually impossible to fix. Decent car otherwise but that's irrelevant if it looks like a rust bucket

[CTinline-six]

The engines are reliable, and the interiors on the newer ones are very nice. Their automatic transmissions are pretty weak (glad you are looking for a manual) and their paint/corrosion protection is poor. I live in CT and they rust out pretty quick here.

If they didn't have the problems with rust, and the engines had a tad bit more power I'd probably be interested in them.

[K9Leader]

Originally Posted by mecheng77

It was poor quality steel and a very thin layer of galvanizing
Way less than what is found on European cars.

I wouldn't touch a Mazda with a ten foot pole until they have proven to improve
Every neighbor on my street that has one had severe rust, some only after 5yrs.
Rust is virtually impossible to fix. Decent car otherwise but that's irrelevant if it looks like a rust bucket

I have not experienced any rust problems with the '04 Mazda 6, which spent its first nine years in Delaware and the last four in Northern Virginia, not the winter salt environs found further North but not exactly Southern California either. As a Mazda owner/fan I tend to notice other Mazdas and I've not noticed rust problems more significant than any others. Now, my Subarus? Yes, rust problems.

Google search for rust problems on Mazda cars does yield a number of articles, discussions, etc. I guess it really depends where you live?

[norsairius]

Rust issues seem to be most prevalent in Mazdas from 2010 or earlier for the most part. Many owners reporting in from areas that use salt a lot in the winter report no issues in this Reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/mazda/comme...roblem_really/

I have a friend in Indiana who has a 2010 Mazda 3 that's had no issues in the time he's owned it. Granted, I didn't specifically ask about rust, but I imagine he would've mentioned it if it were present.

Looking around parking lots or street-parked cars here in the upper midwest, I haven't noticed Mazdas rusting any more or less than other brands I see. I don't exactly record my observations, but I haven't observed any remarkable trends either.

Seems like rust should be relatively low on your list of concerns, especially if you're able to wash the car somewhat regularly. If you want some extra peace of mind, I'm sure there are places that can apply some rust-proofing/resistant coating to the car too.

I think Mazda faces more scrutiny and attention for rust because they did actually have a problem in the past, but that reputation has just been unfortunately difficult to shake.

Think about how Hyundais and Kias are perceived. Some still believe that they are unreliable piles of crap but they've come a long way and are are putting out cars way better than the ones they did 10+ years ago. Some of their cars may still run in to some horrible issues, but the number that do is likely much smaller than it has been in the past (and what car brand doesn't seem some of its cars have horrible issues on some occasions?). I believe the same general story is likely to be the case with Mazda and rust these days.

There's also this article with a few vids if it helps you feel any better: https://www.auto123.com/en/news/mazd...-videos/64256/ (these videos are from Mazda themselves though)
Again, I don't expect 100% of cars to be rust-free, but I do think that much fewer will run in to rust issues than in the past.

[left123]

Thank you all for the feedback.

I really am just looking for something that can occasionally accommodate my 3 kids at once, which will be mostly taking them to school/back, and likely only 1x/week.

I am looking in the 15-18k ballpark and the Mazda (albeit the manual one, which is harder to find) seemed to fit the bill. I have been looking more and more and I am starting that price creep of looking at nicer and nicer cars. Considering an F10 535i or Lexus GS350 (the latter seems harder to find in my price range). Not sure I want to go down either of those roads d/t price but a man can dream right! I think I would feel bad spending 15-18k on a Mazda when I could get one of those two, which would probably hold value better in the long run.

Any and all feedback is appreciated.

[norsairius]

Originally Posted by left123

Thank you all for the feedback.

I really am just looking for something that can occasionally accommodate my 3 kids at once, which will be mostly taking them to school/back, and likely only 1x/week.

I am looking in the 15-18k ballpark and the Mazda (albeit the manual one, which is harder to find) seemed to fit the bill. I have been looking more and more and I am starting that price creep of looking at nicer and nicer cars. Considering an F10 535i or Lexus GS350 (the latter seems harder to find in my price range). Not sure I want to go down either of those roads d/t price but a man can dream right! I think I would feel bad spending 15-18k on a Mazda when I could get one of those two, which would probably hold value better in the long run.

Any and all feedback is appreciated.

My $0.02: A lower mileage/newer Mazda (or other non-luxury brand vehicle) at $15k-$18k could be better than a higher mileage/older F10 535 or Lexus GS350. There's a lot of variables to consider too like maintenance history, how the car was treated by the previous owner(s), etc.

The Lexus is likely to depreciate less or at least more slowly and be more reliable, but the F10 could also be a good vehicle if it's been well-maintained and if you have the funds and/or DIY skills to maintain it.

The 535 and the GS350 will both be faster and more luxurious than the Mazda and will likely have more space inside, but I haven't compared the specs. Both offer AWD too which is better than the Mazda's FWD, at least in bad weather. FWD is otherwise perfectly fine for most drivers, even if you decide to drive spiritedly. It'll definitely take some getting used to though.

The Mazda has a pretty nice interior for a non-luxury brand though and should handle itself well if you decide to push it a bit while the Lexus will focus more on a comfortable ride. The 535 will be fun to drive too, but possibly not as nimble as the 6 due to its heavier weight and relative emphasis on comfort in the BMW lineup. If gas mileage matters, the Mazda should have both beat.

If you're going to drive the car so rarely, it seems as if a performance/luxury vehicle would be a waste because it wouldn't be used much, but that's just me. The flipside of that is that less driving = less mileage = less maintenance, though sometimes not driving a car enough can lead to other issues. Sounds like you'll be driving it enough though where it won't be too much of a concern.

I'll add this disclaimer as well: I haven't driven any of these vehicles you're discussing except for the F10 535, which I really liked. Otherwise, my only experience with Mazda recently was from test driving a CX-9 in November last year, which I also really liked. My only recent experience with Lexus was with a Lexus GX SUV in California a few years ago, and I didn't care much for it. My opinions are otherwise based on what I generally know about cars/these brands and what I've read about these specific cars.

[left123]

Originally Posted by norsairius

My $0.02: A lower mileage/newer Mazda (or other non-luxury brand vehicle) at $15k-$18k could be better than a higher mileage/older F10 535 or Lexus GS350. There's a lot of variables to consider too like maintenance history, how the car was treated by the previous owner(s), etc.

The Lexus is likely to depreciate less or at least more slowly and be more reliable, but the F10 could also be a good vehicle if it's been well-maintained and if you have the funds and/or DIY skills to maintain it.

The 535 and the GS350 will both be faster and more luxurious than the Mazda and will likely have more space inside, but I haven't compared the specs. Both offer AWD too which is better than the Mazda's FWD, at least in bad weather. FWD is otherwise perfectly fine for most drivers, even if you decide to drive spiritedly. It'll definitely take some getting used to though.

The Mazda has a pretty nice interior for a non-luxury brand though and should handle itself well if you decide to push it a bit while the Lexus will focus more on a comfortable ride. The 535 will be fun to drive too, but possibly not as nimble as the 6 due to its heavier weight and relative emphasis on comfort in the BMW lineup. If gas mileage matters, the Mazda should have both beat.

If you're going to drive the car so rarely, it seems as if a performance/luxury vehicle would be a waste because it wouldn't be used much, but that's just me. The flipside of that is that less driving = less mileage = less maintenance, though sometimes not driving a car enough can lead to other issues. Sounds like you'll be driving it enough though where it won't be too much of a concern.

I'll add this disclaimer as well: I haven't driven any of these vehicles you're discussing except for the F10 535, which I really liked. Otherwise, my only experience with Mazda recently was from test driving a CX-9 in November last year, which I also really liked. My only recent experience with Lexus was with a Lexus GX SUV in California a few years ago, and I didn't care much for it. My opinions are otherwise based on what I generally know about cars/these brands and what I've read about these specific cars.

Thanks for your feedback.

Just to be clear, I will be driving this new to me car everyday, but only have 3 kids in it maybe once a week. I just need to have something that CAN accommodate 3 kids.

The Lexus will definitely hold it's value the best and be the cheapest maintain but the 3rd generation starts in 2013 and they are still not cheap.

I am not sure what to do at this point.

[K9Leader]

You might want to look at the Toyota Venza. The last year for it was 2015 but CPOs are still available at dealers. It has an enormous back seat and a large cargo area.

Two years ago I was looking to retire my 2003 Subaru Baja from daily driver duties. We also needed a family car that my wife and I and our two grown children could fit in with the possibility of a fifth person, could also carry luggage and/or our dogs, would be easy in and out for my parents or in-laws when with us. I had always liked the styling of the Venza and it does have decent pick up with the 6 cylinder engine.

I also had it in the back of my mind that although I was buying it for me to drive, I thought my wife might end up with it as her daily. At the time she had a company car but we expected that she would be changing positions and giving up the car. As it turned out, she got laid off . . . so lost the car. So I gave her the Venza and went back to the Baja. When she got another job, we decided she would keep the Venza and I would get something else (which is how I ended up with the E91).

The Venza is a 2013 with 29K miles on it when I bought it in February 2015. It is a crossover and a comfortable ride with good pick up, but if I had kept it as my daily I would have tried some H&R lowering springs to improve the handling. There are also some coilovers now available for the Venza.

The key for you is that the back seat is enormous and not only should easily fit three car seats, there is room for you to maneuver your cherubs in and out without serious contortions. Ours is a top-of-the-line Limited with AWD and pretty much every option but the LE and XLE versions are quite livable and 2013s and 2014s should be in your price range.

Anyway, good luck and happy motoring!

K9Leader