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      12-02-2017, 05:08 PM   #1
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Performance SAVs - Comparison Charts

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Over on the X3M forum I started a Qtr Mile thread to get a feel for what the X3M might bring to the table with either 460 HP or 490 HP rated engines. But to view it alone doesn't provide much perspective, so I've worked on compiling many of the 'performance SAVs' most often referenced. Appreciation to Gudus and kozzi for mentioning others to be included. I've sorted based on different variables which highlights certain models over others. If you see errors, please share the data and your source. Thanks.
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Last edited by Max Well; 03-07-2018 at 10:17 AM. Reason: Updated Tables
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      12-06-2017, 08:03 AM   #2
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More data added to the spreadsheet, so I'm now just lacking the AMG Cds and a few qtr mile times. I have added a fourth chart - sorted on HP required to run constant speed at 140mph (I was interested to see which had the best aerodynamic designs). Not surprisingly the top leaders have some of the lowest Cds.

I still wonder if air suspension (like that of the Maserati Levante S) allows vehicles with a larger frontal A(rea) to have better Cds at highway speeds (c/w the X3 M40i, for example). And will BMW ever consider introducing such in its SAV line (which, by definition, will most always have higher Cds based on design requirements when c/w sedan counterparts)? It would seem this would mesh well with their 'EfficientDynamics' initiatives.
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      12-06-2017, 09:12 AM   #3
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What about the new Lamborghini Urus?

Weight: 4850 lbs
Top speed of 190 mph (305 km/h)
0-100 km/h (60 mph) in 3.6 seconds
0-200 km/h (124 mph) in 12.8 seconds.
641 hp (478 kW) 4.0 L twin-turbo V8
Torque 850 Nm / 627 LB-FT
Wheelbase (Inches) 118.22
Overall length (Inches) 201.25
Overall width (excluding mirrors) (Inches) 79.37
Overall height (Inches) 64.48
Track front/rear (Inches) 66.73/67.32
Ground clearance (Inches) 6.22/9.76 (adjustable via air suspension)
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      12-06-2017, 11:56 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gudus View Post
What about the new Lamborghini Urus?

Weight: 4850 lbs
Top speed of 190 mph (305 km/h)
0-100 km/h (60 mph) in 3.6 seconds
0-200 km/h (124 mph) in 12.8 seconds.
641 hp (478 kW) 4.0 L twin-turbo V8
Torque 850 Nm / 627 LB-FT
Wheelbase (Inches) 118.22
Overall length (Inches) 201.25
Overall width (excluding mirrors) (Inches) 79.37
Overall height (Inches) 64.48
Track front/rear (Inches) 66.73/67.32
Ground clearance (Inches) 6.22/9.76 (adjustable via air suspension)
Max Well, might as well add the Porsche Cayenne trims from the GTS to the Turbo/S lol. The Urus is no joke and even though it is not anywhere near the price range of a G01, it is close to the same class in size if you are to include the likes of an X5M etc. Maybe should have stuck to just G01 sized class.
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      12-06-2017, 01:25 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gudus View Post
What about the new Lamborghini Urus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kozzi View Post
Max Well, might as well add the Porsche Cayenne trims from the GTS to the Turbo/S lol. The Urus is no joke and even though it is not anywhere near the price range of a G01, it is close to the same class in size if you are to include the likes of an X5M etc. Maybe should have stuck to just G01 sized class.
Done. Also added the Bentley while I was at it.
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      12-07-2017, 02:53 PM   #6
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Wt/HP vs 0-60 times Plot

Gives a rough idea of 0-60 performance as Wt/HP ratio is lowered.
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Last edited by Max Well; 12-21-2017 at 02:13 PM. Reason: Updated graph
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      12-08-2017, 10:28 AM   #7
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Aside from luxury and design which are inherent in most current gen models and/or come down to personal taste, performance and cargo/utility are important factors when choosing a Performance SAV. Price is a consideration but that is clearer to understand between the offerings. Fuel economy is relevant but at these HP ratings, combined mileage probably wouldn't sway one over another (unless hybrid/electric come into the equation).

It seemed a "Performance SAV Index" using Wt/HP multiplied by 0-60 time (to account for performance) then divided by cargo volume would yield a number which identifies maximum performance combined with cargo load (low number better). So I have now included that as a column along with cargo volume and provided sorts based on those as well. I also changed the X3M's est 0-60 times after reviewing the HP/Wt vs 0-60 time charts.
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      12-10-2017, 09:34 AM   #8
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I also wanted a way to showcase Mnfrs' methods for improving aerodynamics. It is one thing to load a large platform with a huge HP engine and get great 0-60 times and good cargo room. Just as it is with making a(n) SAV more aerodynamic by removing cargo room. Both produce a good result for some areas but at a sacrifice to another category. But - the ability to combine performance, cargo, and aerodynamics really defines the ultimate for many purchasing in this SAV genre. So in addition to the P-SAVI, or 'Performance SAV Index' which analyzes performance and cargo vol, (with the formula 0-60 time x Wt/HP ratio divided by Cargo Vol), I've now added the P-SAVIE, or 'Performance SAV Index Enhanced' which now multiplies the P-SAVI by the Cd and the A. This allows improved separation between the larger and less aerodynamic performance SAVs.

One example - the Jaguar F-Pace S. It has good aerodynamics and a reasonable frontal area, low weight, and excellent cargo room. If Jaguar increases its HP from 380 to the upper 400s while keeping the other variables reasonably similar, it could prove a formidable competitor in this group. Likewise, Porsche and Mercedes already have the power options, but their cargo room ranks in the lowest which lowers their cumulative index.

As witnessed by sales of the Macan not everyone cares about cargo volume, and a lot of other important variables come into the mix when buying a performance SAV (handling being key, interior design and infotainment, etc), but the charts can assist in highlighting some of the features each bring to the table.
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      12-20-2017, 12:56 PM   #9
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But the real question is.... IRs or XRs
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      12-20-2017, 01:40 PM   #10
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Nice work.

I think the Mercedes-AMG GLA45 would make a good addition. The Audi RS Q3 would also make sense if you are open to including vehicles not sold in North America.
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      12-20-2017, 02:32 PM   #11
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Thanks for this!
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      12-20-2017, 03:58 PM   #12
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Why not add x5 35i
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      12-20-2017, 05:06 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Igor_M5 View Post
But the real question is.... IRs or XRs
Don't need drugs to to geek out here, especially going 0-60 in under 4 seconds behind the wheel of a whale. Being an enthusiast of high performance SAVs never looked better.

as a footnote to BMW:
Look at the chart above. X3M deserves S58 with 500HP. Thank you.
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      12-20-2017, 10:09 PM   #14
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Dude, get yourself a girlfriend!
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      12-20-2017, 10:24 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Well View Post
Gives a rough idea of 0-60 performance as Wt/HP ratio is lowered.
The interesting thing about this graph is that if you draw the trend line, things above it probably have optimizations allowing it to perform better for having more lbs to lug per hp (friction, transmission/gearing, AWD, tires, launch control etc), those below must have something hindering them or they must be missing optimizations.
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      12-21-2017, 12:15 AM   #16
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Quick correction on the X5 50i performance.

0-60 4.3
1/4. 12.8 @ 109mph

Car and Driver results.
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      12-21-2017, 12:20 AM   #17
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X5/6M 0-60 3.7? FROM MOTOR TREND
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/bmw/x...yenne-turbo-s/
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      12-21-2017, 10:28 AM   #18
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Max Well...AMAZING

Sincerely appreciate the time and effort; great reference doc.

I just bought a new SQ5 over the X3 40i, primarily because of the air suspension, as the ride quality is far more compliant in "comfort" mode compared to the BMW.

Overall performance wasn't as important to me, but the SQ5 still feels explosive, and probably 8/10th's of my M3 in accelerative force.

My wife has a 2016 X3 28i, and we love it, but the Audi is just more luxurious, and that's exactly what I wanted for my daily.

I digress...

Thanks a million for putting this together and sharing!!!!
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      12-21-2017, 02:17 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Igor_M5 View Post
But the real question is.... IRs or XRs
LOL – wasn’t quite sure what you were referencing until Kozzi replied, then did a search for ‘what are IRs and XRs’. Surprising number of accurate hits came up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Nice work. I think the Mercedes-AMG GLA45 would make a good addition. The Audi RS Q3 would also make sense if you are open to including vehicles not sold in North America.
Thanks, mkoesel. I’ve added the two SAVs you referenced to all charts and graph.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spuntyb View Post
Thanks for this!
Most welcome, spuntyb.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbinshihon View Post
Why not add x5 35i
Would be nice to add all Performance/luxury SAVs, sbinshihon, but I had to draw a line somewhere, so chose to include those near the top of the Mnfrs’ Performance series - apologies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kozzi View Post
Don't need drugs to to geek out here, especially going 0-60 in under 4 seconds behind the wheel of a whale. Being an enthusiast of high performance SAVs never looked better.
as a footnote to BMW:
Look at the chart above. X3M deserves S58 with 500HP. Thank you.
Thanks for the heads-up re: IRs and XRs, kozzi! And you’re right – this segment of the industry is growing fast as more are looking to combine utility, luxury, and performance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcc3456 View Post
Dude, get yourself a girlfriend!
Yeah, not sure my wife would agree… But seriously, this isn’t difficult to do – once the numbers are entered (and that is the only time-consuming part, trying to make sure accurate numbers are quoted), everything auto-calculates. And custom sorting literally takes 5 sec per category.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sor View Post
The interesting thing about this graph is that if you draw the trend line, things above it probably have optimizations allowing it to perform better for having more lbs to lug per hp (friction, transmission/gearing, AWD, tires, launch control etc), those below must have something hindering them or they must be missing optimizations.
That’s the impression I get as well, sor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eurotrash8 View Post
Quick correction on the X5 50i performance.
0-60 4.3
1/4. 12.8 @ 109mph
Car and Driver results.
Thanks – data updated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericliuhc View Post
And thank you as well, ericliuhc, and for providing the reference – data updated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raikkonen View Post
Max Well...AMAZING
Sincerely appreciate the time and effort; great reference doc.

I just bought a new SQ5 over the X3 40i, primarily because of the air suspension, as the ride quality is far more compliant in "comfort" mode compared to the BMW. Overall performance wasn't as important to me, but the SQ5 still feels explosive, and probably 8/10th's of my M3 in accelerative force. My wife has a 2016 X3 28i, and we love it, but the Audi is just more luxurious, and that's exactly what I wanted for my daily. I digress...
Thanks a million for putting this together and sharing!!!!
And thank you for the kind words, Raikkonen – glad you think it might be helpful!
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      12-21-2017, 03:00 PM   #20
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      12-21-2017, 03:59 PM   #21
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S58 is now being said to have 475 hp in the X3M. Not sure if that is with the Competition package or not though.
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      12-21-2017, 06:11 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ND40oz View Post
S58 is now being said to have 475 hp in the X3M. Not sure if that is with the Competition package or not though.
Oh please send some reference/information on this. 475HP may just be enough to get the X3M into the mix but not to the top.

Competition Package? Really? Feed us information!!!
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