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      11-28-2011, 06:06 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by midlifecrisis View Post
I agree with those who recommend winter tires. You never know when you'll need the extra margin of stopping or steering ability - and the difference between all-season and winter tires is significant. With any AWD vehicle, getting started isn't the issue. How many SUVs have you seen in a ditch during a snowstorm? I've seen many. I think they ended up there because they were able to get going but didn't think about how they were going to steer or stop. People who drive in snow or freezing weather on a regular basis are making a good investment in their own (and their loved ones') safety when they buy winter tires.
Agree that if you're always in snow, its a good investment. I disagree about the large improvement. All-season vs Winters don't provide a huge amount of difference although of course winters are favorable in harsh winter climates (obviously).

Driving into ski resorts is what I do 10-12 times a year. Near whiteout conditions most of the time with steep inclines and windy roads. I do them on all-seasons on my xDrive equipped cars. I've done them in Quattro equipped cars. I've done them on RENTAL cars such as a Jeep Liberty with all-seasons.

Works every single time and I don't feel out of control at all. But again, like you stated, its personal preference. Winters will perform better. Period. Just like summers perform better on dry warm climates. All seasons are a compromise but FAR from incapable.
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      11-28-2011, 06:17 PM   #24
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If you've never done a proper A:B test you will never know how much better winter tires are when you get below 40F/7C. The difference is pretty dramatic in favor of winter tires.
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      11-28-2011, 08:51 PM   #25
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To be honest, if I hadn't come across this forum, I wouldn't have purchased snow tires. I haven't used snow tires since 1998 when I bought my first 4WD Ford Explorer. This is the first time that I've ever had dedicated wheels for winter. I've never had any issues without snow tires, but since I have the 19" wheels and my area in Michigan has plenty of lake effect snow and potholes, I decided buy them. If I lived somewhere else or had 18" wheels, I might not have made the same decision. Plus now that it gets dark so early, it's nice to have the extra safety of snow tires when driving alone to and from work. With all the maniacs on the road, being stuck on the side of the expressway or down in the ditch is one of the places I would least like to be.
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      11-28-2011, 09:56 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by mibmwx3 View Post
To be honest, if I hadn't come across this forum, I wouldn't have purchased snow tires. I haven't used snow tires since 1998 when I bought my first 4WD Ford Explorer. This is the first time that I've ever had dedicated wheels for winter. I've never had any issues without snow tires, but since I have the 19" wheels and my area in Michigan has plenty of lake effect snow and potholes, I decided buy them. If I lived somewhere else or had 18" wheels, I might not have made the same decision. Plus now that it gets dark so early, it's nice to have the extra safety of snow tires when driving alone to and from work. With all the maniacs on the road, being stuck on the side of the expressway or down in the ditch is one of the places I would least like to be.

Well said.

A good set of snow tires have probably saved my butt more times than I'd like to admit. Although the best tires for any given driving situation are no guarantee, anything you can do to increase your chances of surviving in hostile weather is worth it in my book.

Like "they" say; "You pays yer money and ya takes yer choice" Everyone has a different level of risk tolerance. Some people buy into hedge funds and some horde their gold coins under their mattress, and some people believe the earth is flat. AND usually they can all justify their position, at least to themselves.
C'est la Vie
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      11-28-2011, 10:10 PM   #27
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My wife has an aging mother who lives about 6 hours north from Chicago in deepest darkest Michigan. If she needs to travel on her own up there for an emergency in the dead of winter I'm more than happy to have paid for the winter wheel and tire set for her and my peace of mind.

I've spent the last 10 years putting winter wheels and tires on 911's and being easily capable of driving around the outside of slithering SUV's mounted with all season tires in icy and snowy conditions. It's a matter of what you personally believe is important and whether you can see a return on that expenditure.
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      11-28-2011, 10:16 PM   #28
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Some of you guys are right, snow tires are a complete waste of money for the majority of the time! You usually end up with some fugly winter rims and a car that handles like it's driving on jello. Most of the time the roads are clear, and it doesn't matter whether you're on all season's, winters, or even summers.

BUT there are a handful of days when winter tires make the difference between driving safely and hanging on for your life. Or maybe a day that happens once in 5 or 10 years when the highway is completely covered in black ice, cars are skidding left and right, and you feel like you have suction cups stuck to your tires. This exact scenario happened to me several years ago. I can not recommend winter tires strongly enough, not to mention that my M3 on Blizzaks can drive up an unplowed hill while plowing snow with my undercarriage. Now that is very significant. I don't buy winter tires for the 99% of the driving I do, I buy them for the 1% of time when the likelihood of destroying my 50k+ car is greatest.
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      11-28-2011, 10:33 PM   #29
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True.

I've never mounted snow tires on my Lotus or Corvette (both RWD only) and never had any snow traction problems with either. Also, neither of those vehicles is even equipped with antilock brakes. Never missed the snow tires at all.*


















*Of course they never see the light of day unless it's over 55 degrees F. outside.
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      11-29-2011, 08:26 AM   #30
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Being in ski country I will use this analogy... All mountain skis will get you all over the mountain....true. Do they do any one thing really well...NO. A nice GS ski for carving turns all day on frontside and until you have been on a real powder ski when its deep there is no comparison...

Now you wouldnt take your GS ski on a powder day would you? Not much fun...
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      11-29-2011, 09:01 AM   #31
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If you can read French, there is some new evidence on the safety benefits of winter tires.

http://www.mtq.gouv.qc.ca/portal/pag..._avril2011.pdf

As with some other cold jurisdictions (e.g., Sweden, Finland), winter tires are required in Quebec from December 15 to March 15.
Quebec compared crash injuries since their 2008 mandatory winter tire law to the 5-year period before the law. They found a 5% reduction in injuries that can be attributed to winter tire use. This translates in an average of 574 fewer injuries per winter.
Of course this is cold Quebec and not mild Britain. The need for winter tires will ultimately depend on where you drive in winter.
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      11-29-2011, 09:24 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus7 View Post
True.

I've never mounted snow tires on my Lotus or Corvette (both RWD only) and never had any snow traction problems with either. Also, neither of those vehicles is even equipped with antilock brakes. Never missed the snow tires at all.*


















*Of course they never see the light of day unless it's over 55 degrees F. outside.
I kept scrolling to see that last line
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      11-29-2011, 12:09 PM   #33
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Quote:
You usually end up with some fugly winter rims and a car that handles like it's driving on jello.
My rims aren't fugly and the vehicle doesn't handle like it's driving on jello. In fact, Z rated tires below 32F handle like riding on jello. They don't grip at all.
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      11-29-2011, 12:34 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by fedinand View Post
I kept scrolling to see that last line
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      11-29-2011, 12:37 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by richardew View Post
My rims aren't fugly and the vehicle doesn't handle like it's driving on jello. In fact, Z rated tires below 32F handle like riding on jello. They don't grip at all.
What wheels and tires are those?
The wheels look great!
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      11-29-2011, 12:49 PM   #36
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Chaps, ignore Lotus7 and others with the same views on this subject at your peril! Those who know, do know the true benefits of winter tyres. It is clear from some post that there are those people who just do not know the true benefits of winter tyres and they appear to be in denial of the true facts.

People all too willing to spend many thousands of //$ on the vehicle, only to take a risk on the safety of themselves, their passengers and other road users. Hardly sensible what?
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      11-29-2011, 12:59 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TogMogX3 View Post
Chaps, ignore Lotus7 and others with the same views on this subject at your peril! Those who know, do know the true benefits of winter tyres. It is clear from some post that there are those people who just do not know the true benefits of winter tyres and they appear to be in denial of the true facts.

People all too willing to spend many thousands of //$ on the vehicle, only to take a risk on the safety of themselves, their passengers and other road users. Hardly sensible what?

Agreed...note, I wouldn't bundle Lotus7 in with the non-believers...
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      11-29-2011, 01:09 PM   #38
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FACT! Good quality winter tyres are the best all round tyre to use for the vast majority of everyday winter motoring journys.

FACT! Unstudded snow tyres, M&S, all season and summer tyres are all considered to be less efficient (safe) for the vast majority of everyday winter motoring journys.

FACT! Studded and unstudded snow tyres (used with and without snowchains) have their place for some winter motorists and under certain conditions; however, under these conditions in some countries there use is mandatory.

Is the risk to life worth taking if we choose to ignore the aforementioned FACTS?
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      11-29-2011, 01:11 PM   #39
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Agreed...note, I wouldn't bundle Lotus7 in with the non-believers...
I do hope that I made it clear that Lotus7 and others are believers?
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      11-29-2011, 01:20 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TogMogX3 View Post

FACT! Unstudded snow tyres, M&S, all season and summer tyres are all considered to be less efficient (safe) for the vast majority of everyday winter motoring journys.
That is true, BUT unstudded snow tires are so far superior to M&S, all season, and summer tires that they should not all be included in the same catagory. In many areas, studded tires are not allowed. In order of winter safety, it should be studded snows, then unstudded snows, then a big gap to M&S and the rest.
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      11-29-2011, 02:21 PM   #41
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I do hope that I made it clear that Lotus7 and others are believers?
Ah, missed the "at your peril"...carry on!
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      11-29-2011, 02:33 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by tuco44 View Post
That is true, BUT unstudded snow tires are so far superior to M&S, all season, and summer tires that they should not all be included in the same catagory. In many areas, studded tires are not allowed. In order of winter safety, it should be studded snows, then unstudded snows, then a big gap to M&S and the rest.


Yes Tuco, you and I know that we are both correct under certain circumstances. However, as I was only trying to reinforce the proven fact that winter tyres are superior to the others mentioned under the vast majority of everyday motoring conditions.
We are 'singing from the same song sheet' and I will not get 'tired' of singing this song.
Keep smiling and best wishes for your safe winter motoring.
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      11-29-2011, 02:35 PM   #43
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Ah, missed the "at your peril"...carry on!
Will Co.........over and out to you..........lol
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      11-29-2011, 02:53 PM   #44
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I can't disagree with any of the facts. After some more fact finding today I've sucked it up and emailed the dealer to enquire on costs and to see if I could get the 308 style in a winter setup.

Hopefully it's as good a decision as it was when I took the advice of this forum to spec my car with the xenons. ;-)

I'm a real advocate for safety and I
guess I rode my luck with summer tyres on my old 3 series in the winters gone by. I realise this now however, I still didn't appreciate a couple of the comments that were getting a bit personal because I expressed a differing opinion.

Best regards to all as ever.
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