[Sorry About That]

Originally Posted by animal.style

Damn. I keep opening this thread whenever there is a new post hoping to see some pics of the black painted struts or the carbon wrapped one. No luck lol

Not the best pics but you get the idea. Having a little trouble attaching pics but hope this works.

[suby01]

Cool thanks.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by sinbad4

First, telling someone "I don't think you understand..." is shitty. It's telling someone who disagrees with you they're dumb. I fully understand. Please accept that I simply disagree with you.

Second. I've never said K&N filters particles as well as factory filter. In fact, I've made a an effort to repeatedly say, in my driving environment has very few dirt roads - thus I require less rigorous filtering. Yes, manufactures have to spec their engines to worst conditions, not best and this brings me comfort.

None of what you've said in any of your posts changes anything I've said. If you want ~3% more power and believe a K&N type oil based air filter will filter to your driving needs; then buy the filter. I did.

A point you over look, is that any additional power will stress your engine beyond what the factory has spec'd. Any added stress will shorten your engine's life. Any enhancements you do to your engine, whether a air filter[/B], a bigger turbo, a bigger exhaust, a chip tune, etc will all add some degree of power to your engine - beyond what was designated by the manufacturer. By your logic, anyone who chooses to enhance their engine performance is a fool.

Most of us in these forums are intelligent enough to understand this. Many of us will continue to modify our engines regardless, while our less risk averse friends will not.

It's not shitty as most people that haven't worked in manufacturing would not be as knowledgeable as people that have. I do work in manufacturing. If you interpret that as me accusing you of being dumb then I would accuse you of being overly sensitive and a bit of a poor sport for not taking the high road when being corrected and instead trying to spin it into something else. All I have done is brought factual evidence that K&N filters perform poorly relative to standard paper filters. Yes they do flow more for a short period of time but once they start accumulating dirt their performance downgrades quickly so you are paying more for a filter that makes negligible power that nobody will feel behind the wheel at the expense of a dirtier intake and higher maintenance of replacing/cleaning the filter more often.

To be clear, I'm not posting for you as you have made up your mind. I'm posting for the people on the fence or the people that didn't realize that despite what aftermarket vendors would have you think, the stock air filter is usually always the best unless you have made modifications that necessitate considerably more air flow which most people don't do. I'm as guilty of anyone as being ignorant to the real performance of these filters as I started out in the 90's Honda tuning scene and swapping the air filter was the first thing I would do to any new vehicle. I also would fool myself into thinking that the couple extra hp that shows up on a dyno actually translates to real life. I have probably wasted well over $100k over the years in useless mods on various cars that made little improvement to the overall performance (it's much, much easier today to extract real power today with the availability of OTS maps and custom tuners) of the vehicle. Just because I made these mistakes in the past it doesn't mean others need to repeat them.

[sinbad4]

Originally Posted by Sorry About That

Not the best pics but you get the idea. Having a little trouble attaching pics but hope this works.

I like it much better than I thought I would. I like that you just wrapped the middle and didn't try to get the ends.

Thx!

[fricfracfrank]

Originally Posted by Sorry About That

Not the best pics but you get the idea. Having a little trouble attaching pics but hope this works.

Two different screws/bolts used on the brace?

[suby01]

Originally Posted by fricfracfrank

Two different screws/bolts used on the brace?

Yup. Pretty annoying as no hardware store carried the hex type socket. I needed to order it on the line. -__-

[Sorry About That]

Originally Posted by fricfracfrank

Two different screws/bolts used on the brace?

Yes. You will need a 16mm socket and an 11mm 16-point socket to remove the strut-braces.

[fricfracfrank]

Originally Posted by Sorry About That

Yes. You will need a 16mm socket and an 11mm 16-point socket to remove the strut-braces.

Interesting. I have not noticed the difference when opening my hood...and was looking at the bars last week.

[suby01]

[freshxdough]

Originally Posted by suby01

Yup. Pretty annoying as no hardware store carried the hex type socket. I needed to order it on the line. -__-

E Torx

[Sorry About That]

Originally Posted by freshxdough

E Torx

Just an fyi, I don't think an E-Torx socket will work. I believe Torx bolts and E-Torx sockets are 6-point. The bolt on the strut-brace is an 8-point star and I know for a fact that a 16-point 11mm socket fits snugly with zero play. An 8 point socket would probably work also.

[freshxdough]

Originally Posted by Sorry About That

Just an fyi, I don't think an E-Torx socket will work. I believe Torx bolts and E-Torx sockets are 6-point. The bolt on the strut-brace is an 8-point star and I know for a fact that a 16-point 11mm socket fits snugly with zero play. An 8 point socket would probably work also.

The front bolt is a 16mm hex and the rear is a E14 or E16. I have removed this bar before to replace my air filter.

[suby01]

The tools needed are literally in the first 10 seconds of the video.

[adc100]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

Useless anecdotal evidence. If filtration didn't matter then every auto manufacturer would be putting K&N filters in their vehicles on the assembly line as they flow more and it's win-win right? Unfortunately filtration matters which is why all automakers use the pleated paper filters.

As pointed out the engine and intake system is designed to allow more than enough air in. And the computer makes the system almost perfect.

I drive a Subaru but realize even BMW engineers can figure out that their filter is optimum and putting in a shitty filtering filter is the height of stupidity.

Sinbad would have flipped out back in the day when JC Whitney Catalogs offered any number of gadgets that doubled your Horsepower..lol. The smart move is to go with the Fram Ultra air filter.

But yea..you are wasting your time arguing with Sinbad.

[Oldguysrule]

Originally Posted by freshxdough

The front bolt is a 16mm hex and the rear is a E14 or E16. I have removed this bar before to replace my air filter.

My 2018 has inverted torx bolts fore and aft. Well, at least it's a one wrench job!

[sinbad4]

Originally Posted by adc100

As pointed out the engine and intake system is designed to allow more than enough air in. And the computer makes the system almost perfect.

I drive a Subaru but realize even BMW engineers can figure out that their filter is optimum and putting in a shitty filtering filter is the height of stupidity.

Sinbad would have flipped out back in the day when JC Whitney Catalogs offered any number of gadgets that doubled your Horsepower..lol. The smart move is to go with the Fram Ultra air filter.

But yea..you are wasting your time arguing with Sinbad.

A) I paged through those Whitney rags too.

B) Dyno numbers and 0-60 improvements are facts.

But yeah.. if you want to feel superior because you know better, I can't argue with you. Just another yahoo who'd rather ignore the actual data and blindly believe factory puts in the "best" parts. OK. I honestly don't know how to communicate with your type. Bunch of Earl Landgrebes.

[adc100]

Originally Posted by sinbad4

But yeah.. if you want to feel superior because you know better, I can't argue with you. Just another yahoo who'd rather ignore the actual data and blindly believe factory puts in the "best" parts. OK. I honestly don't know how to communicate with your type. Bunch of Earl Landgrebes.

Well you don't obviously don't know how to communicate with anyone who disagrees with you. Enjoy the K&N and the higher Silicon (dirt) that will occur in your Used Oil analysis....grinding your piston rings and cylinder walls away.


And thanks for the "yahoo" name tag. Speaks wonders about you.

[Oldguysrule]

Hi Sinbad. I respectfully disagree. I specifically asked if you had Dyno numbers and you did not. Instead, you point to data taken from a Subaru test. ADC 100 was suggesting that at some air intake level, airflow needed by the car as adjusted by the CPU could be maxed out even with the OEM filter. Additionally, I suggested that to know for sure, you'd need to test 1) with stock filter 2) with K&N filter and 3) with no filter to really see what's goin on IN THAT CAR with only the air intake parameter changing. We of course know filtering will degrade with each successive test.

[sinbad4]

Originally Posted by Oldguysrule

Hi Sinbad. I respectfully disagree. I specifically asked if you had Dyno numbers and you did not. Instead, you point to data taken from a Subaru test. ADC 100 was suggesting that at some air intake level, airflow needed by the car as adjusted by the CPU could be maxed out even with the OEM filter. Additionally, I suggested that to know for sure, you'd need to test 1) with stock filter 2) with K&N filter and 3) with no filter to really see what's goin on IN THAT CAR with only the air intake parameter changing. We of course know filtering will degrade with each successive test.

I agree that it's best to have the tests and numbers you suggest specific to car, engine, exhaust, etc. It's expensive. I will concede that without these tests; we do not know the specific improvements (or decreases) in performance. I fret that even if one undertook the time and expense; the next a challenge would be that these test need to be done at varying altitudes, temperatures and even humidity - which all, in their special way, would be valid challenges.

That said. There are numerous tests out there show similar improvements across numerous cars & engine combinations. Further; for every test you do; someone will bitch - was the engine exact same temp; what about humidity, etc, etc. It's really Impossible to "win". However; I would hope that a reasonable mind; open to the possibility that a less restrictive impediment in the airflow intake of an engine may yield better power would look at the very large field of evidence out there; the many dyno runs across numerous cars and observe; for all their scientific flaws; they demonstrably in sum; measurable improvements in power.

From my friend, Google (some BMW runs toward bottom):

Road & Track supports my OP:
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...ilters-tested/

Dyno run on Infiniti G37 (one of my car models)
+6ft lbs Torque +14 HP (>4% gain)
Review expounds on other gains in range of these numbers.

LSX with Camaro and several options. Base Drop in:
+8 ft-lbs Torque +8.4 HP ( 2.6% gain)
Note, with cone filter and intake upgrade, they got almost +8%
https://www.lsxmag.com/tech-stories/...ntake-options/

Dyno run on Camaro
+9HP (~2.5%) Notes the "surprising" and "even" gains.

Honda:
+3 ft-lbs Torque, + 7HP (~ 4.6% gain)

BMW 2008 335xi:
+5 HP
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132028

BMW M3
+6.5 ft-lbs +16.3 HP
https://motoiq.com/project-e90-m3-part-5-kn-filter/3/

[adc100]

"The numbers are small, and you probably won't feel the extra power. But they do work."
and
"What Fenske doesn't test is just how well each aftermarket filter is actually filtering the air going into the engine versus the stock unit. He suggests the increased horsepower could be a result of less filtering going on,"

If you like the extra power which is statistically insignificant in exchange for poor filtering, knock yourself out.

[suby01]

In summary:If you like K&N buy it. Install it. Enjoy it. If you do not like K&N enjoy your day.

[JAY56641]

Originally Posted by suby01

In summary:If you like K&N buy it. Install it. Enjoy it. If you do not like K&N enjoy your day.

Thanks for much for the part # and the detailed install instructions. I was a dummy. I plugged in my vehicle year and type (2020 BMW X3 m40i) into the K&N site and it gave a different part number. Ordered it and it's the wrong size. Sent an e-mail to k&n to research why their system guided me to the wrong part #. Needless to say I checked my OEM filter and it matched yours. I ordered the part number you referenced so we'll see what Happens. I think it'll work though.