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      03-10-2020, 11:27 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mako View Post
except model y is X4 competitor, it has no trunk...
I think since the iX3 and Model Y are electric SUV/SAV/Crossovers (what have you), they are competitors.

Since the market isnt saturated with EVs, yet, segment competitiveness hasnt really kicked off. We tend to compare EVs to EVs. More delineation between types, the more we'll begin to separate by those type. We can see that now with Sedans and SUVs but have yet to get to trucks, off road, different types of SUV (e.g. coupe like or standard or large), wagons, coupes, etc.
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      03-10-2020, 11:41 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by jmg View Post
The i3X is an ICE platform and probably just can't fit the bigger battery that the i4 is designed to accommodate.
Makes sense.
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      03-10-2020, 11:45 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
The i3X is an ICE platform and probably just can't fit the bigger battery that the i4 is designed to accommodate.
The batteries are actually very similar in capacity. The iX3 will have a 75kWh battery while the i4 is currently expected to have an 80kWh battery.

Also, they are both using what BMW is designating "5th generation EV technology", and they are built on similar versions of BMW's CLAR-WE electric architecture.

I suspect that the X3's extra weight and inferior aerodynamics partly explain its relatively poor range. It may also be using less optimized software and hardware as compared to what BMW will bring in 2021.

Audi and Jaguar have faced similar challenges with their first generation electric SUVs. Although they have 90kWh+ batteries, their range is only about ~200 miles or so. The fact of the matter is that, when it comes to efficiency, traditional automakers still have come catch-up work to do. Hopefully BMW will have made up some more ground by the time the iNEXT and i4 come to market.
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      03-10-2020, 11:53 AM   #48
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Over saturated SUV market in the US + multiple competing and frankly better looking EV SUVs in the US + a government unwilling to invest in charging infrastructure (unlike in the EU and China) = no reasonable financial case for iX3 in the US in the short term
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      03-10-2020, 12:01 PM   #49
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Tesla Model Y is going to kill it.

BMW is not looking very wise at this point.
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      03-10-2020, 12:24 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfm56d7b View Post
I also think that's one of the major issues but perhaps not the only one: additional drag from full time AWD system, decreased range, more testing required in colder US geographies.
AWD on an electric vehicle is not like AWD on an internal combustion vehicle, there isn't increased drag / power loss from differentials, driveshafts, etc. you simply have a second electric motor on the second driven axle. You can also just not use one of the electric motors when cruising and it won't suck up any more battery power although of course it is still adding some weight.
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      03-10-2020, 12:45 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remonster View Post
AWD on an electric vehicle is not like AWD on an internal combustion vehicle, there isn't increased drag / power loss from differentials, driveshafts, etc. you simply have a second electric motor on the second driven axle. You can also just not use one of the electric motors when cruising and it won't suck up any more battery power although of course it is still adding some weight.
A second eMotor also increases regenerative braking, and can also increase range accordingly.
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      03-10-2020, 12:46 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Staszek View Post
What I dont understand is if you can get 300+ miles out of an i4 how could you not out of a larger iX3.
Because the iX3 can only support a 74kWh battery, whereas the i4 will use a newer/5th get battery with ~80kWh, and is more aero-efficient.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Staszek View Post
I would think if they did this right the American market would eat up an electric X3 as long as awd was available.
Not for $60K and <200mil of range. Where are you going to charge it on a road trip? The Tesla Supercharger network is fairly robust at this point, so a Model Y can take most road trips without concern. Where is BMW's support for chargers and integrating those into navigation/trip planning?
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      03-10-2020, 12:49 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Staszek View Post
What I dont understand is if you can get 300+ miles out of an i4 how could you not out of a larger iX3.
Because the iX3 can only support a 74kWh battery, whereas the i4 will use a newer/5th get battery with ~80kWh, and is more aero-efficient.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Staszek View Post
I would think if they did this right the American market would eat up an electric X3 as long as awd was available.
Not for $60K and <200mil of range. Where are you going to charge it on a road trip? The Tesla Supercharger network is fairly robust at this point, so a Model Y can take most road trips without concern. Where is BMW's support for chargers and integrating those into navigation/trip planning?
Correct.

The Tesla Supercharger network trumps everything.

The CCS charging network is a complete joke at this point in time.
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      03-10-2020, 12:51 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
Tesla Model Y is going to kill it.

BMW is not looking very wise at this point.
Is it your contention that BMW would be wise to come out with a vehicle that would get "killed" by the Model Y?
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      03-10-2020, 12:57 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Is it your contention that BMW would be wise to come out with a vehicle that would get "killed" by the Model Y?
It's my contention that BMW is looking more stupid then ever before.

Tesla is going to wipe the floor up with the Model Y.
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      03-10-2020, 01:00 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
It's my contention that BMW is looking more stupid then ever before.
Silly me. I thought you actually had some reasoning behind your opinion. Moving forward, I'll try and remember that you're just spouting off things even you can't explain.
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      03-10-2020, 01:03 PM   #57
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Silly me...
Regardless, BMW has absolutely screwed themselves big time.
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      03-10-2020, 01:07 PM   #58
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I work from home and my wife works half a mile away. I would take a BMW electric if the size and price makes sense, since her car is barely driven and when it is, never more than 60 miles away. Was hoping this iX3 was it, but maybe whatever BMW iNext will be.. still unsure how those are different vehicles lol.
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      03-10-2020, 01:10 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisny View Post
I work from home and my wife works half a mile away. I would take a BMW electric if the size and price makes sense, since her car is barely driven and when it is, never more than 60 miles away. Was hoping this iX3 was it, but maybe whatever BMW iNext will be.. still unsure how those are different vehicles lol.
iX3 is a re-purposed G01 chassis, built in China.

iNext is more(?) dedicated as a BEV. I say that with a ? because the iNext is very similar to an i4, which is based on an ICE platform (G26).
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      03-10-2020, 01:19 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
Regardless, BMW has absolutely screwed themselves big time.
Whatever you say bud.
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      03-10-2020, 01:23 PM   #61
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Whatever you say bud.


Likewise
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      03-10-2020, 01:36 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfm56d7b View Post
more testing required in colder US geographies.
So they won't sell these in Norway?
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      03-10-2020, 01:58 PM   #63
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CUVs/SUVs are frequently used for long distance trips in addition to daily commuting and grocery getting.

If BMW can't compete with the Model Y on price and range then they had no choice. Just look at how poorly the Audi E-tron has sold. The product isn't ready for prime time.
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      03-10-2020, 02:47 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
I'm glad BMW NA listened to it's dealers

My Tesla has an EPA estimated range of 299 miles. And you could probably get that! But realistically, I've taken a few ~225mi one-way trips, and it would be pushing things not to stop for a charge. If you're going >60mph, and face any kind of headwind, or have temps below 10ºC, your range is going to take a hit.

If the iX3 was really going to have an EPA range of 240-250mi, your real-world range would certainly be <200 miles, which looks pretty bad against the Model Y.

I would hate to have to find a slow-ass CCS charger on a road trip with the iX3. I take just a few road trips a year, but the Tesla Supercharger network makes life easy. I wouldn't need the stress of finding a CCS charger every 150 miles in an iX3.
Tesla Superchargers are the only really viable charging network.

CHAdeMO is much more established vs CCS, but neither compare to Tesla Superchargers.
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      03-10-2020, 04:28 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
iX3 is a re-purposed G01 chassis, built in China.

iNext is more(?) dedicated as a BEV. I say that with a ? because the iNext is very similar to an i4, which is based on an ICE platform (G26).
I think you're right, and the concept has more i3 type styling... I just can't keep up.... An electric X3 would've been perfect for my wife's next car. Oh well...
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      03-10-2020, 06:11 PM   #66
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this is a good call from BMW, a modded ICE chassis turned EV car was never going to be much competition to model Y. bmw doesn't need another i3 or i8 debacle when it comes to releasing BEVs in the US, it needs a car that can make people think twice when deciding between a BMW BEV and a Tesla. iX3 is simply not that car, at best it'll fare as good as the EQC, nobody even bothers with it.
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