[Alfa33]

Hi all

I've been looking into replacing my Q2 with something a bit bigger in light of our first baby joining the family. I have narrowed the choice down to an Q5 TFSI 45 Quattro Sport Automatic with adaptive air suspension (it is an Australian set of specifications and essentially is a fairly well speced Q5) which comes with 5 year warranty but no complimentary servicing, and a X3 xDrive i30 with the following specs:
Sophisto Grey
M Sport Package (I think this is just looks rather than suspension etc)
Visibility Package
Comfort Package
Complimentary BMW 5 year servicing/warranty

Both come in at around the same price - compared to the RRP the Q5 comes with basically no discount at all but the BMW comes in with around a 10% discount. I didn't choose the visibility/comfort packages but they were essentially "thrown in" and as such I think it is not really an option to sub them out for other options - they are basically complimentary options I am stuck with. I am conscious that with the discount on the RRP the BMW may hold its value a bit better when it comes time to sell it on.

A few matters I would be grateful for your thoughts on:
1. To anyone who has faced a similar dilemma in choosing between these cars I would be grateful for any observations you may have.
2. I am looking for a car that is practical but also engaging - both cars have a similar 0-100 speed of around 6 seconds but I understand the X3 to be the better drive - again would be grateful for any comments on this.
3. Whether there are there any further options that I should consider splashing out on or attempting to get the dealer to throw in.
4. Note that the car does not come with the following (due to the chip shortage): Driving Assistant Plus and BMW Heads-Up Display. Am I going to miss anything from Driving Assistant Plus?

As you can perhaps tell, I am leaning towards the BMW but still have yet to test either car.

Many thanks!

[Det013]

When I chose a (new to me) car, there were a few things on my check list. Number 1 was a regular auto trans and NOT a DSG (dual clutch) trans. I also have a Skoda Vrs which is a VW Golf Mk5 with a different body. The trans thou still drivable has mechatronics issues at 6k to fix. The VIN doesn't fall into the recognised cars which would be repaired as a warranty item so I have a car with zero resale. So I chose a 2018 M40i.
My experience only.
( But I do know of others)

[avi66]

Originally Posted by Alfa33

4. Note that the car does not come with the following (due to the chip shortage): Driving Assistant Plus and BMW Heads-Up Display. Am I going to miss anything from Driving Assistant Plus?

I'd miss ACC and the HUD, plus some of the other safety/convenience features, like crossing traffic warnings front/rear.

This is what's included with Driving Assistant Pro -

[JJ 911SC]

Originally Posted by Alfa33

...
4. Note that the car does not come with the following (due to the chip shortage): Driving Assistant Plus and BMW Heads-Up Display. Am I going to miss anything from Driving Assistant Plus?...

In Australia, the only option with a Plus is Parking Assistant Plus.

Is that with you are referring to in Note 4? As for the HUD, if you never had one you won't miss it.

If you want the Driving Assistant Pro as described by avi66, you'll to jump to the M40i ($30,000 more)

Complimentary BMW 5 year servicing/warranty is a big plus.

[avi66]

Originally Posted by JJ 911SC

In Australia, the only option with a Plus is Parking Assistant Plus.

Is that with you are referring to in Note 4? As for the HUD, if you never had one you won't miss it.

Complimentary BMW 5 year servicing/warranty is a big plus.

I think the OP's probably confusing Driving Assistant Plus, which is pre LCI, with Driving Assistant Professional, which is the LCI version, and available in Aus.

[JJ 911SC]

Originally Posted by Alfa33

...
4. Note that the car does not come with the following (due to the chip shortage): Driving Assistant Plus and BMW Heads-Up Display. Am I going to miss anything from Driving Assistant Plus?...

In Australia, the only option with a Plus is Parking Assistant Plus.

Is that with you are referring to in Note 4? As for the HUD, if you never had one you won't miss it.

Complimentary BMW 5 year servicing/warranty is a big plus.

[PMB]

Someone, somewhere told me that before I end my days I should drive a quality German engineered automobile - if for no other reason than to experience perfection.

Back in 2012, approaching retirement, I started researching BMW and specifically the X3. I put together a spec of what I thought I would really enjoy. I promised myself I would not test drive anything until I was over 200,000 km on my Toyota Sienna minivan. Come January 2013 I drove an X3 and loved it. To be fair in my process I thought I should compare it some something similar. I had no prior experience with Audi but decided to test drive a Q5 - and I loved that too.

I then spec'ed out my dream Q5 - a Premium Plus with gray leather, wood trim, and adaptive cruise control, AND the 3.0L V6 supercharged engine (no SQ5 available in Canada back in 2013). So I was comparing I6 X3 with a V6 Q5.

Long story - short... after much back and forth I bought the Q5 and loved it for 8 years. Both cars were great. Both similar price. But the Audi was just a little more refined, a little more quiet, a little more of a smooth drive, and handled fantastic.

I had hoped to continue to drive that Q5 for many more years, but it developed a bad case of rust - around the wheel wells - front fenders and back quart panels. I put about $1700 into the problem and Audi matched me another $900, but 11 months later the rust came back. And the Pandemic hit too.

So this past summer I started to process again expecting to place another factory order and prepared to wait 5-ish months for a car. This time I was hyped for a SQ5 with all the trinkets. But to be fair I decided to have BMW to make me an offer too. The local Audi dealership has recently gone through a major overhaul and split off the VW business. They seem to have lost their way and they totally dropped the ball which BMW gladly picked up. So today I am driving a 2021 X3 M40i, and enjoying it very much. But I still have a warm spot in my heart for the Audi Q5 - not the local Audi dealership. To be more specific - the Audi Customer Service team were spectacular. The Audi Sales Manager not so spectacular.

Peter

[BavMachina]

I faced the same decision a year ago. I approached the test drives with the expectation of a close comparison, with the Q5 being more comfortable and the X3 being more sporty. I was surprised to find the X3 significantly more comfortable and a much more engaging drive. On top of that, the Q5’s infotainment system feels like a child’s toy compared to iDrive.

Several years ago I cross-shopped the 4 Series Gran Coupe vs the A5 Sportback, and it was a close call, with BMW winning by a whisker. Not this time…I found the X3 to be far superior to the Q5.

[Markee]

Ditto what Bavmachina said…

I moved from a 2017 Q5 Sport TDI to a 2020 X3.

Comparisons of the two:

1. The most annoying thing with the Q5 is the hesitancy of the DSG auto gearbox when pulling away. If you’re at a busy junction or roundabout where you need to pull away quickly, you will need to put the gearbox into Sport mode as in comfort mode there’s too much of a delay (this is an issue right across the Audi range, note mine was a 2017 model so a software fix may have rectified this).

2. The Audi MMI is touchscreen only (my 2017 Q5 had a circular click controller) whereas the X3 still has a centre console controller which means taking your eyes off the road less to operate.

3. The Audi Q5 is a very competent car, which never broke or let me down in 3 years of ownership, but compared to the X3 it is a very boring car that’s not going to thrill you at all. I know I’m comparing a Q5 TDI with an X3 M40i, but I’m sure X3 20d owners will agree it’s more of a drivers car.

[Alfa33]

Thanks all

Very grateful for the detailed feedback - that was exactly what I was hoping for.

To address one line of comments re: Driving Assistant Plus/Professional, you are right to point out that I mistakenly confused the terminology - what has been removed is "Driving Assistant Professional". I think I could live without the HUD, but it is a little disappointing the various additional safety features are not available. That is one area where the Q5 is ahead - there are no safety feature removals based upon the chip shortage.

I should add, with respect to the comment "I'd miss ACC and the HUD, plus some of the other safety/convenience features, like crossing traffic warnings front/rear." - it looks to me like the basic Driving Assistant still comes with rear (but not front) traffic warnings? I've got rear traffic warnings on my Q2 and would be sorry to see that feature go.

[JC210]

One box to tick in Australia is 420 - Sun protection glazing, which for some unknown reason is optional and not standard even in hot summer Aus.
Other than that the 30i is pretty well specified, my only other additions were HK, metallic paint and roof rails (but that's on an X4, they're standard on an X3).

[Bavich]

I was in the same situation 3 years ago.
Q5 vs X3.
After I rented a Q5, my conclusion was that Q5 was a perfect car, but veryyyy boring. It does everything good. On the other hand, I hated the infotainment.
However, the X3 was more engaging; it felt more alive.
Today I'm driving a 30i, upgrading to a 40i in a couple of months. This time I didn't even look at the other brands… 😊

[avi66]

Originally Posted by Alfa33

I should add, with respect to the comment "I'd miss ACC and the HUD, plus some of the other safety/convenience features, like crossing traffic warnings front/rear." - it looks to me like the basic Driving Assistant still comes with rear (but not front) traffic warnings? I've got rear traffic warnings on my Q2 and would be sorry to see that feature go.

AFAIK, it does come with rear crossing traffic on the standard Driving Assistant. It should also come with front & rear parking sensors (parking assistant ?), but this is different from crossing traffic.

It's a PITA trying to pull out of a junction or parking space when your side view is obscured or blocked, and I've had a few close calls. For me, crossing traffic is very useful.

[JJ 911SC]

Originally Posted by JC210

One box to tick in Australia is 420 - Sun protection glazing, which for some unknown reason is optional and not standard even in hot summer Aus...

Very strange, they are standard in Canada

[JJ 911SC]

Originally Posted by Alfa33

... - it looks to me like the basic Driving Assistant still comes with rear (but not front) traffic warnings? I've got rear traffic warnings on my Q2 and would be sorry to see that feature go.

.

Australian version:

The Driving Assistant safety package includes the camera/radar-based systems Front Collision Warning with brake intervention, Manual Speed Limit Assist including Speed Limit Display with no-overtaking indicator and pre-warning as well as Lane Departure Warning. Additionally, the radar-based equipment includes rear crossing traffic warning, Lane Change Warning and rear collision warning. At speeds of over 70 km/h, Lane Departure Warning recognises lane markings and draws your attention to an unintentional lane change with steering wheel vibration and active steering return. If vehicles enter the driver's blind spot, Lane Change Warning issues a warning with a vibration in the steering wheel and a blinking warning symbol on the exterior mirror. The rear crossing traffic warning makes pulling out of parking spaces easier. While the front collision warning with brake intervention detects vehicles, the person warning reacts to pedestrians. At the same time, the brakes are pre-conditioned for faster responsiveness. If a collision is imminent, the system initiates a full brake. This function can be limited by darkness and fog. In dangerous situations, rear collision warning activates the warning blinkers at double tempo. The Manual Speed Limiter is used to configure the maximum speed on an individual basis. And after confirmation by the driver, Speed Limit Assist adjusts the maximum speed to the current speed limit, which is determined by the Speed Limit Display with no-overtaking indicator and pre-warning.

[avi66]

Originally Posted by JJ 911SC

.

Australian version:

The Driving Assistant safety package includes the camera/radar-based systems Front Collision Warning with brake intervention, Manual Speed Limit Assist including Speed Limit Display with no-overtaking indicator and pre-warning as well as Lane Departure Warning. Additionally, the radar-based equipment includes rear crossing traffic warning, Lane Change Warning and rear collision warning. At speeds of over 70 km/h, Lane Departure Warning recognises lane markings and draws your attention to an unintentional lane change with steering wheel vibration and active steering return. If vehicles enter the driver's blind spot, Lane Change Warning issues a warning with a vibration in the steering wheel and a blinking warning symbol on the exterior mirror. The rear crossing traffic warning makes pulling out of parking spaces easier. While the front collision warning with brake intervention detects vehicles, the person warning reacts to pedestrians. At the same time, the brakes are pre-conditioned for faster responsiveness. If a collision is imminent, the system initiates a full brake. This function can be limited by darkness and fog. In dangerous situations, rear collision warning activates the warning blinkers at double tempo. The Manual Speed Limiter is used to configure the maximum speed on an individual basis. And after confirmation by the driver, Speed Limit Assist adjusts the maximum speed to the current speed limit, which is determined by the Speed Limit Display with no-overtaking indicator and pre-warning.

Yes, just the rear crossing traffic, but not the front.

[avi66]

Originally Posted by Alfa33

To address one line of comments re: Driving Assistant Plus/Professional, you are right to point out that I mistakenly confused the terminology - what has been removed is "Driving Assistant Professional"

Easily done.

The "Professional" version has an interior camera (at the top of the instrument cluster) that monitors the driver's eyes during semi-autonomous driving modes. This appears to reduce the need to have near-constant hands-on with the steering wheel under certain conditions.

This is it in action -

[JJ 911SC]

Originally Posted by avi66

Yes, just the rear crossing traffic, but not the front.

Yes I'm sure he can read

[avi66]

Originally Posted by Alfa33

Visibility Package

Just something else to consider. If I'm understanding the Aus configurator the "visibility Package" consists of the Pano roof and Laser Headlight for $4145, whilst the Pano roof in isolation is $2385, so $1760 for the lights.

I think the standard headlights in your market is the new Hella Adaptive LED tech with BMW selective beam auto high beam. The shape of the DLR's looks the same as the Laser.

This comparison vid was done in Aus -

[jsh139]

One thing I will say. If Audi is still using the DSG they used in the B8 cars, I would RUN away. They were a problem that I don't think Audi ever really figured out. Bad Mechatronic units, bad clutch packs, and all out transmission failures were so common on the B8 that I can't believe there hasn't been a class action lawsuit. They fixed something in the B8.5, but I think even now people are starting to have problems with those.

[Alfa33]

Thanks all for the further comments.

I will get the sun protection glazing - the last few days in Melbourne have confirmed the desirability of that feature!

As to the Visibility Package, that (and the Comfort Package) were thrown in by the dealer - so I didn't actually request those packages in the first place. However, maybe what I will do is see if I can just have the panoramic sun roof and instead have the HK sound system or something similar, as it seems like the lights are not a particularly good bang-for-buck option.

I can't see myself using the autonomous driving features too often as I generally drive into work at times that avoid the traffic, and I probably wouldn't place too much reliance upon those features on Australian country roads etc, so their loss doesn't bother me too much.

I am still trying to work out what the differences between the Q5/X3 in terms of safety with all the different terminology. The key Audi Q5 active safety features are as follows:

• Active bonnet
• Attention assist – provides a warning alert tone and visual signal if the system evaluates that the drivers attention may be lapsing
• Audi pre-sense city with Autonomous Emergency Braking and pedestrian detection – detects impending collisions at up to 85 km/h and can reduce speed by up to 40 km/h2
• Audi pre-sense front – provides extended collision warnings and emergency braking up to the maximum vehicle speed
• Audi pre-sense rear – helps to mitigate rear-end collisions within system limits through a series of measures including flashing the hazard lights
  at high frequency to warn the surrounding traffic2
• Electronic Stabilisation Control (ESC) with electronic wheel-selective torque control, ABS, ASR, EDL and Brake Assist

From everything said to date, it seems to me that the X3 is missing equivalents to "pre-sense front" and possibly "pre-sense city"? It also seems that there may some features the X3 has that the Q5 does not have? I'm keen on doing as much as a "side by side" comparison as I can.

[BatMeoW]

Originally Posted by Alfa33

Thanks all for the further comments.

The key Audi Q5 active safety features are as follows:

• Active bonnet
• Attention assist – provides a warning alert tone and visual signal if the system evaluates that the drivers attention may be lapsing
• Audi pre-sense city with Autonomous Emergency Braking and pedestrian detection – detects impending collisions at up to 85 km/h and can reduce speed by up to 40 km/h2
• Audi pre-sense front – provides extended collision warnings and emergency braking up to the maximum vehicle speed
• Audi pre-sense rear – helps to mitigate rear-end collisions within system limits through a series of measures including flashing the hazard lights
  at high frequency to warn the surrounding traffic2
• Electronic Stabilisation Control (ESC) with electronic wheel-selective torque control, ABS, ASR, EDL and Brake Assist

From everything said to date, it seems to me that the X3 is missing equivalents to "pre-sense front" and possibly "pre-sense city"? It also seems that there may some features the X3 has that the Q5 does not have? I'm keen on doing as much as a "side by side" comparison as I can.

I have a G01, 2017 and can confirm that X3 30i has all the features that you have listed here. These are snapshots from my car manual:






When I was buying my car, these safety features were on my must have list, and after about 4+ years of ownership, I can say that I am very happy that I got this car. I really doubt that there would be any significantly important safety feature that would be available in one and not the other. Whether that's standard or not, that's a different story

This is a good page that provides the info on the safety features: https://www.bmw.com/en/innovation/th...e-systems.html