[J2045678]

Originally Posted by John-M007

The $7,500 federal tax credit was established by the Legislatures to encourage people go green. The intent is for the consumers and not the manufacturers, as the manufacturers already receive their significant tax credits for each car they build. The tax credit is not a liability. It's a tax credit to assist people to offset the significant price of an electric car. BMW is taking away what was established and intended to be for the people.

I hear you on intent, but I don't think this is specific to BMW if you lease vs buy. Some states may offer you a tax credit on a lease.

[John-M007]

Originally Posted by J2045678

I hear you on intent, but I don't think this is specific to BMW if you lease vs buy. Some states may offer you a tax credit on a lease.

The intent of the law was for the consumer as a form of incentive and balancing the excessive cost of electric vehicle. Most auto manufacturers pass the $7,500 federal tax credit to the client as a form of lower monthly payments. When a manufacturer takes the consumer credit away, then why would the consumer want to get an electric car? The government give both the manufacturers and the consumer the credit. BMW taking both it goes against the intent of the law and the good faith effort of the intent, taking advantage of the consumer, leaving consumers dry. There is a lot of moral and ethical issues with this.

[allinon72]

Originally Posted by John-M007

The intent of the law was for the consumer as a form of incentive and balancing the excessive cost of electric vehicle. Most auto manufacturers pass the $7,500 federal tax credit to the client as a form of lower monthly payments. When a manufacturer takes the consumer credit away, then why would the consumer want to get an electric car? The government give both the manufacturers and the consumer the credit. BMW taking both it goes against the intent of the law and the good faith effort of the intent, taking advantage of the consumer, leaving consumers dry. There is a lot of moral and ethical issues with this.

So purchase the vehicle instead of lease. On some models you can get $0 due at signing, assuming $800 monthly lease payment for 3 years, that's a total of $28,800. And you want a $7500 tax credit on top of that? That's not the intent of the program.

If BMW is keeping the money, that's on the lawmakers keeping a loophole open.

[John-M007]

Originally Posted by allinon72

So purchase the vehicle instead of lease. On some models you can get $0 due at signing, assuming $800 monthly lease payment for 3 years, that's a total of $28,800. And you want a $7500 tax credit on top of that? That's not the intent of the program.

If BMW is keeping the money, that's on the lawmakers keeping a loophole open.

The intent of the law was for the consumers. What you negotiate is seperate and independent from the intended tax credit. And your math is far off.

Nevertheless, this is about the law and the consumers. Don't change the topic or the direction with nonsense fillers. The manufacturers are already receiving their tax credit. There is no reason to take away the consumers. This is unethical. It says a lot about the company. My opinion.

[allinon72]

Originally Posted by John-M007

The intent of the law was for the consumers. What you negotiate is seperate and independent from the intended tax credit. And your math is far off.

Nevertheless, this is about the law and the consumers. Don't change the topic or the direction with nonsense fillers. The manufacturers are already receiving their tax credit. There is no reason to take away the consumers. This is unethical. It says a lot about the company. My opinion.

Translation - you want free money from the government for doing nothing. Hey, I get it, it's a very 2021 take.

[John-M007]

Originally Posted by allinon72

Translation - you want free money from the government for doing nothing. Hey, I get it, it's a very 2021 take.

Leasing a $80K+ car is neither cheap or free. The tax credit is given to the people who spend more than average people to achieve the so called clean air objective.

Your notion that BMW can receive their credit and steal the consumers' credit too is concerning. The law was passed for the people, and people are entitled to their fair share.

[TCBavarian]

Originally Posted by John-M007

Leasing a $80K+ car is neither cheap or free. The tax credit is given to the people who spend more than average people to achieve the so called clean air objective.

Your notion that BMW can receive their credit and steal the consumers' credit too is concerning. The law was passed for the people, and people are entitled to their fair share.

Few things for you to take a breath and research:

BMW Manufacturing Group (Auto Manufacturer) and BMWFS (Company that purchases cars from BMWNA via independent dealers and then leases them to consumers)

How leases work. Payment is determined by 3 things. Discounts off of the msrp. Money Factor. And the big one Residuals (which is simply an estimate on how much a car will tank)

Just because you don't see a big fat -$7,500 on the discount line doesn't mean they aren't passing on the benefit. Ever notice how an X5 40i and 45e have the same lease residual? They are being kind to the consumer because the i3, i8,40e and pretty much every other BMW plug in has tanked in depreciation. But as a leasee you don't get that risk. They stick you with a nice high residual as the gas powered models.

Time will tell if these i4 and iX models hold their values better than their predecessors, but you can bet that BMWFS is largely inflating the residuals to keep lease payments lower than what the equation says they should be. If one still isn't happy with that lease payment then you can take on the risk(liability) of owning the vehicle on title and see how the residual game works out in a few years while claiming the 7,500 tax credit.

[John-M007]

Originally Posted by TCBavarian

Few things for you to take a breath and research:

BMW Manufacturing Group (Auto Manufacturer) and BMWFS (Company that purchases cars from BMWNA via independent dealers and then leases them to consumers)

How leases work. Payment is determined by 3 things. Discounts off of the msrp. Money Factor. And the big one Residuals (which is simply an estimate on how much a car will tank)

Just because you don't see a big fat -$7,500 on the discount line doesn't mean they aren't passing on the benefit. Ever notice how an X5 40i and 45e have the same lease residual? They are being kind to the consumer because the i3, i8,40e and pretty much every other BMW plug in has tanked in depreciation. But as a leasee you don't get that risk. They stick you with a nice high residual as the gas powered models.

Time will tell if these i4 and iX models hold their values better than their predecessors, but you can bet that BMWFS is largely inflating the residuals to keep lease payments lower than what the equation says they should be. If one still isn't happy with that lease payment then you can take on the risk(liability) of owning the vehicle on title and see how the residual game works out in a few years while claiming the 7,500 tax credit.

I am very well aware of how lease calculations works. By law, if you pass the $7,500 tax credit, you must identify it as such on the lease agreement as an itemized item. If you don't see it, BMW did not pass the consumer credit to you.

As for the iX and i4, BMW has already determined that the only way you get your credit is to purchase and not lease. That information is already posted on BMWUSA's website. So if you lease. they will take your credit for themselves.

[TCBavarian]

Yes we already knew all this. You seem really fixated on this $7,500 on a lease contract. You ignored my explanation as to why BMWFS keeps the $7,500 on a lease. Since the last 30 or so posts of yours is simply to tell us what we already knew (no $7,500 rebate passed to a leasee) and simply acted as a soapbox for your complaint with the way things work, we really don't have much more to say.

I suggest you fly or drive to BMWFS 5550 Britton Pkwy Hilliard, OH and start your picketing there. If you get anything changed for us, we really appreciate it. If not I'm sure someone on here can help you fill out the BMWFS Retail Finance Application.


EDIT MODS: I just saw that this guy posted all this nonsense in the X3M X4M ordering thread. He really blasted this same rant all over the forums. Can we get this thread back on track.

[igorr]

Do you have to get the Executive package to get the 360 surround view cameras? Honestly I don’t need anything from the executive, besides the HUD would be nice but not a deal breaker. But, I can’t tell if the surround feature comes with that parking assistance plus option, because it doesn’t seem standard.

[Tim@codemybimmer]

Originally Posted by igorr

Do you have to get the Executive package to get the 360 surround view cameras? Honestly I don’t need anything from the executive, besides the HUD would be nice but not a deal breaker. But, I can’t tell if the surround feature comes with that parking assistance plus option, because it doesn’t seem standard.

360 Surround View cameras are part of Parking Assistant Plus (5DN) as a whole package and can't be optioned separately on the G chassis, including the F97/98.

[M4Ghost]

Individual colors