[Transfer]

I agree it's super annoying and yes I drive in manual mode most of the time. When you have to downshift to 1st for slow corners or downshift 5 gears to get to the upper RPMs on the freeway, it's a little silly. I enjoy driving my M340i more at this point.

Oh, and I have a Tesla on order.

[serpentine]

Originally Posted by Transfer

I agree it's super annoying and yes I drive in manual mode most of the time. When you have to downshift to 1st for slow corners or downshift 5 gears to get to the upper RPMs on the freeway, it's a little silly. I enjoy driving my M340i more at this point.

Oh, and I have a Tesla on order.

When in manual mode all you have to do is hold the left paddle and it will down shift to the lowest gear it can handle without blowing the motor. Much more efficient than clicking through the gears like a motorcycle.

I just learned of this the other day. Not sure about 5th to 1st, but 8th to 4th maybe for a pass.

[Transfer]

Originally Posted by serpentine

When in manual mode all you have to do is hold the left paddle and it will down shift to the lowest gear it can handle without blowing the motor. Much more efficient than clicking through the gears like a motorcycle.

I just learned of this the other day. Not sure about 5th to 1st, but 8th to 4th maybe for a pass.

Not on iDrive 6 based 2020s. I can do similarly though with holding left paddle and smashing throttle through kickdown. It's pretty jolting doing that though.

[serpentine]

Originally Posted by Transfer

Not on iDrive 6 based 2020s. I can do similarly though with holding led paddle and smashing throttle through kickdown. It's pretty jolting doing that though.

Oh no, that sucks. I have a 2020, but I guess I tested on my 2021 X7. Just assumed it would be the same in the M.

[lagunablue1]

Originally Posted by harperium

Since my criticism of the S58 ruffles some of your feathers, let me recast it another way:

If there was an M Setup option, under Engine > Turbo, that said, "Give more low-end power, sacrificing some high end power", how many of you would tick this option and program it to an M button?

I dare say most of us would, and it would be our "around town" mode.

That's my point.

I live in downtown Toronto and I've never found the low-end torque to be an issue when you leave the car in efficient and D1 (auto mode). It has more than enough power at partial throttle levels to accelerate comfortably in traffic. Not sure why you would expect locking it in 8th would yield rapid acceleration.

One of the things I LOVE about the S58 is that it needs to rev out to make power. This is similar to the many great S motors of the past (S65, S54, etc). The S55, which was generally not well received by many (including myself) broke from that tradition. I'm happy to see BMW trying to replicate the feelings of their great N/A engines in their modern turbocharged counterparts.

If you wanted a comfy SUV with low-end torque you should have bought an m40i. Personally I wanted a modern version of my M3 with cargo space and the ability to tow a boat, and the X3M delivers.

[harperium]

Originally Posted by lagunablue1

Not sure why you would expect locking it in 8th would yield rapid acceleration.

I'm not asking for rapid acceleration at low RPM. ANY acceleration at low RPM would be an improvement. For all practical purposes, if you're in the S58's dead zone, the ZF8 might as well be in neutral, because you have to shift before anything will happen.

The argument I'm making here is that the S58, though a great and mighty engine, has a dead zone, and if you need to make a sudden move, the dead zone can get you. I think the dead zone detracts from the experience as a daily driver.

I've trained muscle memory to deal with the 2nd-gear-low-RPM dead zone. The post I made at the top of the thread was out of surprise that the dead zone got me at highway speeds because I deliberately cruise at D2 to make the X3MC more reactive to sudden moves.

I don't drive all my miles horned up at high RPMs. That's like walking around the grocery store with a boner. You don't want to knock over a display case when you turn around.

If you're manually shifting, to get to the lowest possible gear you have to hold the left paddle AND press the throttle all the way to full kickdown. Most of the time you want something in between, and so you're stuck shifting 3 or 4 gears, and waiting... which is where D2/D3 shines, because the trans will shift 5 gears in a snap.

Originally Posted by lagunablue1

If you wanted a comfy SUV with low-end torque you should have bought an m40i.

I guess some of your brains can't deal with loving something, but also acknowledging its limitations at the same time.

For comparison, the M40i isn't nearly as comfy as you would expect. It lacks punch at highway speeds.

As for Tesla comment, that's a devil's bargain: You solve the torque and response problem, but then fail on road trips. BEV, in my book, might as well be a horse-and-buggy. But that's me.

[porkipine69]

I suggest a driver mod.

[harperium]

Originally Posted by porkipine69

I suggest a driver mod.

Originally Posted by harperium

Driver error, I was tired.

I literally said I made a mistake.

The next mistake was daring to post any form of criticism on the S58 to crowd of the-emperor-always-has-clothes types.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by harperium

The next mistake was daring to post any form of criticism on the S58 to crowd of the-emperor-always-has-clothes types.

Looking at the torque graphs for the B58 and S58, it is easy to see why you have an issue with the low down torque.

I can understand manual modes being an issue, but what I do ask, is the gearbox so dim-witted it won't change down in auto mode, with a gentle 'flexing' of the throttle?

[HoJoRo]

Just get an Lci Pal.. (not that there is anything wrong at all with the pre-lci). The Lci pulls like a steam train from 2k whatever gear you find yourself in, (apart from the "overdrive 8th cruisy "eco pro" mode").

No turbo lag , no dead zone .. just plain perfect . It pulls harder from low down all the way to the 7k redline than both the B58 440i and N55 M2. and the transition to warp speed at 2500 all the way to the redline is just staggering

I did test manual upshift to 8th around 55mph and sub 2k , and concur .. the 1mph / sec speed increase, and to be fair I made the same mistake as you, in the early days of ownership. I was in D1 7th cruising behind a car doing 50mph in a 60 zone, I had just manually upshifted to 8th, then decided to overtake on a 200yd straight .. pulled out and nothing happened .... indeed "WTF" , panic set in momentarily as I eased my way past on the single carriageway, as a sharp blind right hander loomed .... learnt rather quickly thereafter

For general driving I just leave it in D and let it do its stuff , effortlessly and without a sniff of hesitation

I / we have a choice , many actually , on how I can drive / engage with this machine, I can go hell for leather in S3 Sport+, or cruise on the highway in comfort D1 in overdrive 8th at 60-70mph and achieve 30+ mpg, (and numerous variations in between the two) I am astonished how the S58 delivers across every aspect of driving that I want to do

[95wildtt]

Originally Posted by harperium

I literally said I made a mistake.

The next mistake was daring to post any form of criticism on the S58 to crowd of the-emperor-always-has-clothes types.

Really??
Did you really expect "pro-Tesla/we hate BMW" on a BMW forum?
Maybe try posting on the Tesla forums and you might get the type of "we hate BMW answers" you are looking for...

IMHO If you don't like criticism don't go looking for it, and don't call peoples babies ugly.

[lagunablue1]

Originally Posted by harperium

I literally said I made a mistake.

The next mistake was daring to post any form of criticism on the S58 to crowd of the-emperor-always-has-clothes types.

Your criticism suggests you don't seem to understand what the vehicle is all about. It's less of an X3 with additional hp, but more of an M3 in X3 form.

Every M3 engine (but for the F8X) has always had a "motorsports" feel, meaning you're supposed to wring it out to get the most out of it. If you wanted instant torque in an M car, you bought an M5 (or X5M) or looked to an AMG car. I wouldn't blame the fact that the S58 carries on the characteristics of the S14, S52, S54, and S65 as a "flaw", but rather the fact that your preference is for something torquier like a GLC63.

[spucktacular]

Lol! I got no power at 1800RPM in 8th gear driving one of the finest 6 cylinder twin turbo engines ever produced!!! Learn how to drive your car bud.. you're complaining about lack of basic logic... rev the thing higher, its not a minivan meant to be driven in 8th gear.

ps... i've outrun V8 AMG GT Coupes off a red light in a non-comp F98, its there, you just don't know how to use it.

[Edgar_FriendlyX3M]

Originally Posted by spucktacular

Lol! I got no power at 1800RPM in 8th gear driving one of the finest 6 cylinder twin turbo engines ever produced!!! Learn how to drive your car bud.. you're complaining about lack of basic logic... rev the thing higher, its not a minivan meant to be driven in 8th gear.

ps... i've outrun V8 AMG GT Coupes off a red light in a non-comp F98, its there, you just don't know how to use it.

I second this.

[Mike02z]

Having had a 22 X3 M40i I can attest to the fact that the B58 felt like it had more torque at lower RPM. I know driving up hills in the M40i I could do that in 8th where with the X3 MC the same hill will drop the trans into 7th. That said, I honestly don’t care because the S58 puts a bigger smile on my face than the B58 did when I punch it. Just my opinion.

[10SecGG]

Y'all are being pretty rough on the OP... Kinda reminds me of the Corvette forums! DO NOT say bad things about MY car. HaHa!!! I honestly think he started out with the intent to ask whether or not anyone else thought this car is a pig in high gear on a flat freeway pull, just got away from his question with other talking points. My opinion only, of course.

[allinon72]

I'll say this....I compare my car to my old F80. Granted, completely different engine with drastically different strengths and weaknesses. But I could punch the gas in that car, in any gear and any speed under 100 and the thing would take off like a rocket. That's one of the things I miss. I realize the S58 is a different engine and built with different goals in mind, but every time this topic comes up I wonder if simple tuning could make this better. The G80/82 guys never complain about a lack of low end. I realize this vehicle is heavier but still.

[knali8]

I have a 2021 version and coming from a m135i B48, I had to adjust how I drive the car. My previous car would pull comfortably on any gear (generally speaking) even in manual mode.. the only issue is that it would run out of puff after 5ish k rpm.

The S58 works better in any of the D modes I find. If I'm in manual, I naturally gear down twice, sometimes three times depending on the situation. To me this is where the fun is because you have to work it (or make it sing &#127925

What I do sometimes is to quickly flick the gear back into D instead of manually gearing down that's my quick solution 😉

[allinon72]

For those interested, I started a thread in the G80 forum about this topic. There is some good discussion.

https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1917589

[Edgar_FriendlyX3M]

I think the one thing people don't realize is so many of these auto manufacturers are trying to make a vehicle do MANY different things very well while still being relatively easy to drive. In other words, they try to make an SUV drive like a car while still being able to comfortably haul stuff while being fast while being "nimble" yet heavy and looking good as well.
There are tradeoffs...some more noticeable than others. In normal start off comfort mode, the X3M to me accelerates and drives like a vehicle made for normal non performance driving. In any of the two other drive modes, the vehicle really comes alive and is a complete animal. This is the flip side to the coin of people wanting a comfortable easy driving car while also having something sadistically fast.
The bottom line really comes down to what you can accept being ok for you to drive. I drove a Charger Hellcat Redeye for a month and that car is almost undriveable to a point. With 800hp and rear wheel drive, you're spinning the tires even at 60mph when you jump on it. I find the X3M way more enjoyable because you can get the power down and go at almost any speed. Keep the rpm's up and you're ok. Most people on here aren't on a track with this thing daily so griping about no low end torque is silly to me. So is complaining about no torque in 8th fucking gear. Sure, the Hellcat was fun but it grows old fast. The low end torque is great, but again if you can't get traction it wears thin rather quickly.

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by BadGTR

v6 twin turbo that puts out as much peak power as the m5 v8 twin turbo. What do you expect?

No V6 puts out anyway near an M5 V8's power, mine would eat any X3M at any rev range.

[Kozumasbullitt]

Originally Posted by JOHNBMWM5

No V6 puts out anyway near an M5 V8's power, mine would eat any X3M at any rev range.

Yeah, some of these comments are comical. I rolled against an F90 in my F97 with some light mods. The M5 pulled me effortlessly from every speed and it's no competition. I knew I wouldn't beat the M5 but I was surprised at the actual outcome.