[harperium]

Coming home late last night on the highway, I completed a passing maneuver and got back in the right lane. Sports+ / D2. I manually upshifted to 8th gear, otherwise D2 likes to hold 7th, but it will hold 8th if you put it there. (I prefer D2 on the highway because kickdown in D1 is not the full kickdown; D2 or D3 gives you the full kickdown when you need it.)

A car merges in ahead of me just after I manually shifted into 8th. I decide to execute a quick overtake. I stab the throttle half way down.... nothing happens... the car shimmies. Reminds me of Han Solo and the Millennium Falcon that won't start. I look at the instrument cluster, scanning for errors. WTF is wrong with my X3MC? I stab the throttle 3/4 of the way in this time.... again, nothing but a shimmy. I look hard for a CEL or something to indicate why my engine isn't working.

Then I realize the problem. I'm in Sequential Mode, in 8th gear, just under 2000 RPMs. The ZF8 hasn't yet gone back to D mode after my manual shift. So duh. Of course there's no power. The S58 literally has nothing here. A Kia could pwn me.

Driver error, I was tired. But the complete lack of grunt from the S58 below 2000 (if not 2500) is surprising. My acceleration was roughly 1 mph per second, if that. I've seen vids where the M5 will pull at least 10 mph/sec in its highest gear at low RPMs...

I'm used to this issue at lower speeds, and am always aware of the 2nd-gear-low-RPM zone of death, but I've never had this bite me at highway speeds before.

[BadGTR]

v6 twin turbo that puts out as much peak power as the m5 v8 twin turbo. What do you expect? To get that kind of power, the turbos have to be big enough to make the grunt on the top end. Can't have low end and the same top end to a redline of 7k.

[harperium]

Originally Posted by BadGTR

What do you expect?

I would expect SOME amount of usable low-end. Not a bare minimum of low-end that can't get the X3MC up a minor hill at 70 mph without needing to downshift.

The 2nd-gear-low-RPM problem can get you rear-ended if you don't manually downshift into 1st, esp. in D1. (Even in D3, you have to push the throttle at least half-way to trigger a downshift into 1st).

The black-and-white nature of the S58 - tons of power, but sometimes zero power - is aggravating. The tunes don't help, as they just pile on the power above 3000 RPMs.

I'm just saying. The S58 is intended for use in daily drivers, not GT3-type track-only cars. Moreso for the F97/F98 than the G80/G82.

[m630]

Not trying to argue or insult, but do you know how to drive an M? If you drive an M like it was engineered to be driven, you would never have such situations as there is no reason to ever worry about 7th or 8th gears when passing (actually the only time to ever be in high gear is if you are on a long trip with no one around, imo). Anyway, why would you quickly shift back to 8th? Are u worried about fuel efficiency in an M? I don’t even know why anyone would ever drive in D tbh, it’s S3 or you are not driving an M. Do yourself a favor and just test driving for one week fully in S, yes that means shifting every gear up and down so you can learn the power curve. Then drive on the highway and never shift above 5th, while downshifting for any passing moves and then tell me if the car doesn’t have proper power in all situations, it’s not the car, it’s the driver in this case. Many peps never drove older M cars so perhaps are not aware of how they have always been engineered, high torque comes with high RPMs, this isn’t an AMG or American muscle car by design. If you luv to be an engaged driver, they are perfect, but if you just want to mash a pedal and go fast, we’ll you probably picked the wrong vehicle.

But trust me, driving in low gears at high rpm’s is what M is all about, and there is nothing like it other than a true sports car.

[BadGTR]

Originally Posted by harperium

I would expect SOME amount of usable low-end. Not a bare minimum of low-end that can't get the X3MC up a minor hill at 70 mph without needing to downshift.

The 2nd-gear-low-RPM problem can get you rear-ended if you don't manually downshift into 1st, esp. in D1. (Even in D3, you have to push the throttle at least half-way to trigger a downshift into 1st).

The black-and-white nature of the S58 - tons of power, but sometimes zero power - is aggravating. The tunes don't help, as they just pile on the power above 3000 RPMs.

I'm just saying. The S58 is intended for use in daily drivers, not GT3-type track-only cars. Moreso for the F97/F98 than the G80/G82.

That is why you have other x3 models. Trade down to a non M and gain the low end. Yes and tunes enhance the top end power more because the turbos can flow. Can't make a larger turbo spool faster. It is a mechanical limitation.

[goldfz8]

What he said lol.... on another note you really shouldn't floor a car in a high gear low rpm setting. High TQ and low end over consistent holding is not necessarily great. Its not a diesel designed to spend extended time at 500lbtq+ between 2000rpm to 2500rpm. Its fairly well documented in the N54 space what can happen after prolonged abuse doing that. On another note i had a 700whp 135 with short rear end and have hit it in 6th gear at 2000rpm and it still takes time. If you want to go fast use the car as intended. There is probably no factory car with a 8speed transmission that feels fast at 2000rpm in 8th gear....Its probably geared to go 200+MPH

Originally Posted by m630

Not trying to argue or insult, but do you know how to drive an M? If you drive an M like it was engineered to be driven, you would never have such situations as there is no reason to ever worry about 7th or 8th gears when passing (actually the only time to ever be in high gear is if you are on a long trip with no one around, imo). Anyway, why would you quickly shift back to 8th? Are u worried about fuel efficiency in an M? I don’t even know why anyone would ever drive in D tbh, it’s S3 or you are not driving an M. Do yourself a favor and just test driving for one week fully in S, yes that means shifting every gear up and down so you can learn the power curve. Then drive on the highway and never shift above 5th, while downshifting for any passing moves and then tell me if the car doesn’t have proper power in all situations, it’s not the car, it’s the driver in this case. Many peps never drove older M cars so perhaps are not aware of how they have always been engineered, high torque comes with high RPMs, this isn’t an AMG or American muscle car by design. If you luv to be an engaged driver, they are perfect, but if you just want to mash a pedal and go fast, we’ll you probably picked the wrong vehicle.

But trust me, driving in low gears at high rpm’s is what M is all about, and there is nothing like it other than a true sports car.

[harperium]

Since my criticism of the S58 ruffles some of your feathers, let me recast it another way:

If there was an M Setup option, under Engine > Turbo, that said, "Give more low-end power, sacrificing some high end power", how many of you would tick this option and program it to an M button?

I dare say most of us would, and it would be our "around town" mode.

That's my point.

[harperium]

Originally Posted by m630

Not trying to argue or insult, but do you know how to drive an M?

I have driven over 200,000 miles on the Nurburgring. I've owned every M car since 1920. I've driven on every track in the United States dozens of times. I've appeared in GQ as the world's most handsome M driver twice, and pwned Mario Andretti at least 5 times.

What about you?

[m630]

Originally Posted by harperium

I have driven over 200,000 miles on the Nurburgring. I've owned every M car since 1920. I've driven on every track in the United States dozens of times. I've appeared in GQ as the world's most handsome M driver twice, and pwned Mario Andretti at least 5 times.

What about you?

And yet you don’t know how an M car is engineered

Just trying to educate not insult as I said.

[m630]

Originally Posted by harperium

Since my criticism of the S58 ruffles some of your feathers, let me recast it another way:

If there was an M Setup option, under Engine > Turbo, that said, "Give more low-end power, sacrificing some high end power", how many of you would tick this option and program it to an M button?

I dare say most of us would, and it would be our "around town" mode.

That's my point.

No, actually no M owner would, cause it would mean u bought the car for status and not for what it is.
The M40 is a perfectly capable car that drives exactly how you want it to be, so perhaps you should trade and not try to change what an M is.

High RPMs + high exhaust symphony = M driving pleasure

[Gsavarese]

It’s a fast truck when you wring it’s neck and wind it out. Otherwise you’re going to be caught flat footed if you’re in efficient and 8th gear. Has nothing to do with being an M car. BMW obviously tuned this engine to wind out like an NA. Having owned turbo BMWs from the N54, N55, S63 engines to name a few, BMW knows how to tune an engine. The B58 is obviously tuned more like a typical turbo 6 with abundant down low torque but can’t rival the top end of the S58. I don’t drive it “Like an M” all the time since I have to dawdle behind halfwits most of the time and I don’t need hyper throttle response. When I do, that’s what the M buttons are for.

[2kaccordocoupe]

Threads like this make me laugh.

Driver configures the car.
Car behaves the way it was configured by the driver.
Driver complains about the car.

100% user error

[spta97]

Whereas I wouldn't mind some more low end power, I actually really like that you have to be intentional to make it crazy fast.

It allows me to putt around town in traffic in comfort then quickly press M1 to put it in sport plus and drive like an ahole

Unlike a lot of people, I don't use the manual shifting mode. I am used to a clutch peddle and a stick shift so this doesn't really do it for me.

Moreover, I cannot shift as fast as the computer and I never find myself with a lack of power in Sport +. I am still shocked 2 years later at how fast this thing is.

[kyleb350]

In automatic mode, if you give as much as a dab of throttle in 8th gear, it's going to downshift on the highway. I have 0 expectations for acceleration in 8th

[richard in NC]

Originally Posted by m630

Not trying to argue or insult, but do you know how to drive an M? If you drive an M like it was engineered to be driven, you would never have such situations as there is no reason to ever worry about 7th or 8th gears when passing (actually the only time to ever be in high gear is if you are on a long trip with no one around, imo). Anyway, why would you quickly shift back to 8th? Are u worried about fuel efficiency in an M? I don’t even know why anyone would ever drive in D tbh, it’s S3 or you are not driving an M.

You may be OK with 13 MPG at $5 per gallon gas, but I'm not. I want 8th gear for highway cruising. I also expect enough low end torque to get out of its own way when pulling into traffic. My 2020 X3M is by far the worst low end power of any BMW I've ever owned. M or otherwise. My M2 Comp with an S55 was worlds better. It should have had the S58 and the X3M the S55.

PS: BadGTR "v6 twin turbo that puts out as much peak power as the m5 v8 twin turbo" WRONG. Its an inline 6 and NO, the latest S63s are over 600 HP and have boatloads of torque by 2k.

[spta97]

Originally Posted by richard in NC

You may be OK with 13 MPG at $5 per gallon gas, but I'm not. I want 8th gear for highway cruising. I also expect enough low end torque to get out of its own way when pulling into traffic. My 2020 X3M is by far the worst low end power of any BMW I've ever owned. M or otherwise. My M2 Comp with an S55 was worlds better. It should have had the S58 and the X3M the S55.

PS: BadGTR "v6 twin turbo that puts out as much peak power as the m5 v8 twin turbo" WRONG. Its an inline 6 and NO, the latest S63s are over 600 HP and have boatloads of torque by 2k.

Gas mileage in this thing is terrible but luckily you are warned up front.

I've found my best mileage is highway - no matter how I drive around town it is still 13 MPG.

Its better than my truck though so there's that

[STi from DSM]

I had this happen in my X3MC once. 8th gear is useless in that car. You wont be overtaking anything in 8th, lol.

[bSwiazzy]

why ru kicking down in 8th gear?

[2kaccordocoupe]

Originally Posted by bSwiazzy

why ru kicking down in 8th gear?

Nothing wrong with cruising along in 8th gear. I do it quite often on the highway and on back roads. You know the drives where you are not engaged at all

The difference is I don't complain about it as I know how to wake the car up when needed. Pin the gas and click the left paddle. Gonzo

M cars are made to be driven in mundane drives and spirited drives. Just have to know how to switch between the two.

It takes a complex setup to cover the two extremes and I feel the people that complain about it don't know how to configure the car to get it to shine in either scenario.

[Edgar_FriendlyX3M]

So the expectation from someone logging "200,000 miles on the Nurburbring" is that of shock that 8th gear on the highway isn't proper for passing. The last gear or two is almost always a cruising or overdrive gear. My old Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT wouldn't accelerate that fast in 8th gear either and that car certainly had more torque below 2k rpm than the X3M. Go buy an EV. I'm sure you'll find something silly to complain about too. Like why it doesn't shift ever.

[10SecGG]

I have a GMC AT-4 truck with a 10 speed auto... When I ask for it to pass a car on the freeway, it'll drop several gears to get into its peak torque, no problem. My wife once had an Acura TLX with a 8 Spd DCT... Same thing, it'd drop several gears to get into its peak torque.

This S58 has gobs of hp, and decent torque, but to me, it's off/on with the boost lag.
No complaints, just an observation... We only drive this thing in sport plus to try to alleviate the lag in torque. If you're in the "sweet" spot in rpm's it's fine, pulls hard in most all the gears.

My point...? This car/truck/SAV... Whatever the hell you call it is well engineered, but let's not kid ourselves, it was the front seat to the party for the G80/G82 platform they were "testing" for the future and they learned a few things from us along the way. Good platform, but quirky as hell in my opinion.

[spdandpwr]

I do concede that if you have this in D1 (that is the base setting on the transmission), the car is lethargic and almost undriveable...it also lugs the motor really bad (especially when i's colder outside). By virtue of that, I almost always drive on D2, that alone quells the issue you're having to the point that I don't you don't need to manually downshift to pass.

The bigger issue I share with you is forgetting to get it back into D mode when you manually shift. Happens to me a lot where I'm like why's the car sitting at 4k RPM still? lol. I'll also concede that on a 5mph rollout, the car is a little slow feeling...especially when you're trying to roll through a yield sign. BUT, it more than makes up for it once it gets into its stride. I actually like this car a lot and it doesn't weight much more than the new xdrive m3!

Last point, do you have an LCI model? Apparently they've updated the S58 to have a better torque band down low.