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      10-22-2020, 03:05 PM   #1
sittingmongoose
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What engine changes were made on the s58 for the m3?

It seems like output is a little different on the new m3 versus the x3m. Torque is up like 35. Were there any internal changes? Or is this just down to the tune?
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Last edited by sittingmongoose; 10-22-2020 at 03:16 PM.. Reason: Had wrong info in here
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      10-22-2020, 03:08 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sittingmongoose View Post
It seems like output is a little different on the new m3 versus the x3m. Hp is up a little and torque is up like 30. Were there any internal changes? Or is this just down to the tune?
you sure hp is up?
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      10-22-2020, 03:17 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexFL View Post
you sure hp is up?
Nope its not...Apparently the article I read was wrong. Updated my post. It is up 35 torque though.
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      10-22-2020, 03:21 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sittingmongoose View Post
Nope its not...Apparently the article I read was wrong. Updated my post. It is up 35 torque though.
i was always wondering, from a technical standpoint, can you really increase the peak torque number without changing the hp? or is it BMW just playing mental games with us?
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      10-22-2020, 05:52 PM   #5
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Tuning changes and major sandbagging, which BMW loves to do with M3 power numbers.
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      10-22-2020, 05:54 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by allinon72 View Post
Tuning changes and major sandbagging, which BMW loves to do with M3 power numbers.
That's what I was thinking. I guess if they changed a bunch of stuff it wouldn't be the s58 huh?
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      10-22-2020, 06:11 PM   #7
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The intake arrangement is better for starters. They had to make some compromises to the intake to fit in the X3 which is why we have that big monstrocity on top of the engine. The intake system on the M3/M4 is more traditional with the air filters near the front of the car. Also I'm sure that they have made some tweaks to the tuning to more adequately match that chassis.
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      10-23-2020, 06:34 AM   #8
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Lots of info below. Between compression ratio and turbo set up, sounds like it will be similar to the F97 with a bit more torque on paper.

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      10-23-2020, 08:26 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexFL View Post
i was always wondering, from a technical standpoint, can you really increase the peak torque number without changing the hp? or is it BMW just playing mental games with us?
Yes, especially on a turbo motor. A bit more boost on the low end and you'll see an increase in peak torque but no increase in peak hp.
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      10-23-2020, 12:26 PM   #10
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I find it interesting the 0 - 60 times appear the same (or very similar) from the specs I've seen between the M3/4 and X3M/X4M.

I would have thought a lighter vehicle would make more of a difference.
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      10-23-2020, 12:57 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spta97 View Post
I find it interesting the 0 - 60 times appear the same (or very similar) from the specs I've seen between the M3/4 and X3M/X4M.

I would have thought a lighter vehicle would make more of a difference.
BMW is sandbagging the numbers as per usual I'm sure. Expect to see 3.3-3.5 ish?!
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      10-23-2020, 02:37 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by hellcat2m4 View Post
BMW is sandbagging the numbers as per usual I'm sure. Expect to see 3.3-3.5 ish?!
Good point. It seems like it will be a great car.

That is, other than the grill that looks like this:
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      10-23-2020, 05:08 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellcat2m4 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by spta97 View Post
I find it interesting the 0 - 60 times appear the same (or very similar) from the specs I've seen between the M3/4 and X3M/X4M.

I would have thought a lighter vehicle would make more of a difference.
BMW is sandbagging the numbers as per usual I'm sure. Expect to see 3.3-3.5 ish?!
The m3/4 numbers are the rwd car. The awd version should be a bit lower than the X3/4m.
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      10-25-2020, 01:15 PM   #14
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HP=Torque (lbs.)*RPM / 5252, correct? Also, that would account for the torque and HP being the same number at 5252 RPM (where you usually see the HP vs. Torque lines on a chart cross-over).

If the above is true, then 35lb increase in torque is going to bump the HP up. Speed, on the other hand, can still be limited as well as acceleration. Marketing vs. engineering.
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