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      06-04-2020, 01:56 PM   #1
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Drew Brees/Colin Kaepernick free speech

Curious to get others' thoughts. Kaepernick has been a controversial figure since taking a knee during the National Anthem at NFL games. His defenders claim freedom of speech, freedom to protest as civil rights. Yet these same folks don't seem to support a public comment (off the football field and not at the workplace) made by Drew Brees to defend his own opinion. I don't feel you can hold up 1A rights as a defense and not apply it consistently.
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      06-04-2020, 02:00 PM   #2
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For some people, the flag represents freedom and sacrifice, and those folks want to pay respect to that.

For others, they want to use it as a platform to make a statement.

I don't see why you have to pick one or the other.

Also, the first amendment doesn't protect you from consequences from society or your employer.

Kaepernick is a dick, who lost his job to BLAINE GABBERT, and then opted out of his contract. Big shock that no one wants to sign him and the circus that comes along with it. Even Tebow wore out his welcome.
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      06-04-2020, 02:07 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Throttlesteer14 View Post
Curious to get others' thoughts. Kaepernick has been a controversial figure since taking a knee during the National Anthem at NFL games. His defenders claim freedom of speech, freedom to protest as civil rights. Yet these same folks don't seem to support a public comment (off the football field and not at the workplace) made by Drew Brees to defend his own opinion. I don't feel you can hold up 1A rights as a defense and not apply it consistently.
Kapernick got railed and black balled for exercising his free speech rights. He still does to this day. And you compare that to Brees getting some flack for exercising his? At least Kap had the balls to stand by his unlike Brees.

They both did and that is their right. The both suffered dramatically different consequences for doing it. The people criticizing both are exercising their free speech rights.
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      06-04-2020, 02:16 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Throttlesteer14 View Post
Curious to get others' thoughts. Kaepernick has been a controversial figure since taking a knee during the National Anthem at NFL games. His defenders claim freedom of speech, freedom to protest as civil rights. Yet these same folks don't seem to support a public comment (off the football field and not at the workplace) made by Drew Brees to defend his own opinion. I don't feel you can hold up 1A rights as a defense and not apply it consistently.
Also, what do you mean Brees wasn't practicing his beliefs while at work? He just said he was. He respects the flag and did so his way at work.

It was and still is just part marketing and part homage to certain things doing the national anthem at sporting events.

This is one of the most overblown "controversies" by both sides.

https://www.history.com/news/why-the...porting-events
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      06-04-2020, 02:19 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by minn19 View Post

This is one of the most overblown "controversies" by both sides.

https://www.history.com/news/why-the...porting-events
I agree with this
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      06-04-2020, 02:23 PM   #6
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I agree with this
I know when I've been at sporting events that I can feel the respect oozing from half of the spectators that can barely stand from tailgating.
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      06-04-2020, 02:30 PM   #7
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They both have the right to say and do what they want and really neither of them did anything wrong. People just need to feel important and making mountains out of mole hills on facebook provides that sweet sweet important feeling.
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      06-04-2020, 02:50 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by BeastieBombRacing View Post
Also, the first amendment doesn't protect you from consequences from society or your employer.
Actually the 1st Amendment does protect you from consequences from society. The government canít criminalize protected free speech; thatís what the 1st Amendment says.

As for employers, it depends. If youíre an at-will employee, then you are correct. If you have an employment contract that doesnít give your employer such broad termination rights, then no.
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      06-04-2020, 02:55 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
I know when I've been at sporting events that I can feel the respect oozing from half of the spectators that can barely stand from tailgating.
It takes all kinds. I was at a sporting event last year where the band decided to make a statement by playing the USSR anthem and marching in the shape of a hammer/sickle. The premise was to jab at Trump for his Russian ties (allegedly). The problem was, they had just recently celebrated a couple of remaining WWII heroes before the game; It was Veteran's Day. Free speech, yes. Inappropriate and tactless, absolutely.

My own personal view is the National Anthem is a great reminder to sports teams and fans that there's something greater we can all (or at least I thought we could) unite around. People get WAY too emotional about their team winning or losing, even becoming angry and violent on occasion. For those that are coherent and haven't tailgated too hard, the anthem should be a reminder. America and the freedom of its citizens came on the backs of people from all walks of life, dating back to the formation of the country. We should never forget that.
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      06-04-2020, 02:56 PM   #10
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Both have the right to do and say what they did. Of course Brees is going to get more backlash because he isn’t a part of then”socially just left”, so therefore in their mind his views are not only wrong, they should be punished.

People should be paying attention, the left wants you to only have their views and thats it. Dissent is not allowed.

There is a smaller faction on the right that is like that (I saw it a bit with Kapernick), but they are statistically insignificant. Almost the entire left however is a SJW die hard. And if you don’t march to the party line you are immoral, wrong, and should be silenced.

Also Kapernick is primarily out of the league because he was a mediocre player with baggage. Lots of other players meet the same fate, his was just more publicized because of his specific choices and some other high profile people and companies choosing to make him a martyr. Even if I agreed with his method of protest I’m not sure as a coach or team owner I would want him on my team based on how he’s come across as a person. Ultimately I think he’s selfish and almost all of his activism is hollow and social media based.
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      06-04-2020, 02:59 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaputt View Post
Both have the right to do and say what they did. Of course Brees is going to get more backlash because he isnít a part of thenĒsocially just leftĒ, so therefore in their mind his views are not only wrong, they should be punished.

People should be paying attention, the left wants you to only have their views and thats it. Dissent is not allowed.

There is a smaller faction on the right that is like that (I saw it a bit with Kapernick), but they are statistically insignificant. Almost the entire left however is a SJW die hard. And if you donít march to the party line you are immoral, wrong, and should be silenced.

Also Kapernick is primarily out of the league because he was a mediocre player with baggage. Lots of other players meet the same fate, his was just more publicized because of his specific choices and some other high profile people and companies choosing to make him a martyr. Even if I agreed with his method of protest Iím not sure as a coach or team owner I would want him on my team based on how heís come across as a person. Ultimately I think heís selfish and almost all of his activism is hollow and social media based.
Let's not forget that CK had a deal all but done with the Ravens until his girlfriend called the Ravens team owner a slave owner
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      06-04-2020, 03:36 PM   #12
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Both have a right to express their opinions or peacefully protest as they see fit. And everyone who disagrees should be free to say so.

Kap was garbage before he took a knee.
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      06-04-2020, 06:49 PM   #13
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The whole thing with Brees changing his tune is sad. Instead of agreeing to disagree along with respecting his thoughts he was internet bullied into making a new statement. I think the shittiest part is how quick people forget all the great things he has done for New Orleans.

I saw some black and gold beads in front of one receptionist work computer today and asked her if she was getting ready for Saints season early. Her response was no, I'm so disappointed in Brees. I didn't even know at that point what had went on. At this point, I don't even feel like talking to people.

Kap is a dick & not going to waste anymore typing on him.
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      06-04-2020, 07:50 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by rebekahb View Post
The whole thing with Brees changing his tune is sad. Instead of agreeing to disagree along with respecting his thoughts he was internet bullied into making a new statement. I think the shittiest part is how quick people forget all the great things he has done for New Orleans.

I saw some black and gold beads in front of one receptionist work computer today and asked her if she was getting ready for Saints season early. Her response was no, I'm so disappointed in Brees. I didn't even know at that point what had went on. At this point, I don't even feel like talking to people.

Kap is a dick & not going to waste anymore typing on him.
Talk is cheap - people should judge people on what they do more than what they say.
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      06-04-2020, 08:03 PM   #15
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Kap has said a lot, done little. Brees has done a lot, said very little. Who is the "hero" here.
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      06-04-2020, 09:09 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Throttlesteer14 View Post
Curious to get others' thoughts. Kaepernick has been a controversial figure since taking a knee during the National Anthem at NFL games. His defenders claim freedom of speech, freedom to protest as civil rights. Yet these same folks don't seem to support a public comment (off the football field and not at the workplace) made by Drew Brees to defend his own opinion. I don't feel you can hold up 1A rights as a defense and not apply it consistently.
This is easy. While in uniform he is an employee of whomever football club that's paying him. As an employee you typically give up certain rights as a condition of employment. Ultimately it's an issue between he and his employer.
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      06-05-2020, 08:31 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Throttlesteer14 View Post
Curious to get others' thoughts. Kaepernick has been a controversial figure since taking a knee during the National Anthem at NFL games. His defenders claim freedom of speech, freedom to protest as civil rights. Yet these same folks don't seem to support a public comment (off the football field and not at the workplace) made by Drew Brees to defend his own opinion. I don't feel you can hold up 1A rights as a defense and not apply it consistently.
This is easy. While in uniform he is an employee of whomever football club that's paying him. As an employee you typically give up certain rights as a condition of employment. Ultimately it's an issue between he and his employer.
Bingo. Aside from the fact that Kap could not hit the broad side of a barn door, he is first an employee of his employer. Displaying actions on his work day/game days that may violate proper workplace behavior established between him and his employer, I would fire him as well.

If my employee became disruptive in our office by continually and made our clients uncomfortable, and continued to do so after repeated warnings, I'd fire his ass too. Your job is to do your job. Do that other shit on your free time, outside of the office/stadium.
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      06-05-2020, 09:01 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schoy View Post
Actually the 1st Amendment does protect you from consequences from society. The government can’t criminalize protected free speech; that’s what the 1st Amendment says.

As for employers, it depends. If you’re an at-will employee, then you are correct. If you have an employment contract that doesn’t give your employer such broad termination rights, then no.
Are you sure you don't mean "Actually the 1st Amendment doesn't protect you from consequences from society"

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Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Kapernick got railed and black balled for exercising his free speech rights. He still does to this day. And you compare that to Brees getting some flack for exercising his? At least Kap had the balls to stand by his unlike Brees.

They both did and that is their right. The both suffered dramatically different consequences for doing it. The people criticizing both are exercising their free speech rights.
X2, people saying they both paid the price are really far out there. Many are still upset with what Kaepernick did yet other players beat up their girlfriends, shoot people, DUI's, whatever and this is quickly pushed aside. I don't agree with kneeling or burning the flag but strongly support the rights of people to do it.

Outside of what you said, some think the first Amendment gives you the right to say whatever you want without repercussions and this is completely wrong. You have the right to say what you want, most of the time your employer then has the right to fire you, society has the right to not go to your place of employment, society has a right to tell your employer they want you fired. Bizarre to me that the same people saying someone has rights to say what they want also want to stop all the things that others do because of what this person said.
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      06-05-2020, 09:16 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by David70 View Post
other players beat up their girlfriends, shoot people, DUI's, whatever and this is quickly pushed aside
I want to zero in on this, right here.

There is no place in pro sports (or gov't, for that matter) for anyone who exhibits this kind of behavior. Full stop.
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      06-05-2020, 09:28 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeastieBombRacing View Post
I want to zero in on this, right here.

There is no place in pro sports (or gov't, for that matter) for anyone who exhibits this kind of behavior. Full stop.
It's truly sad that you even have to voice this opinion
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      06-05-2020, 11:54 AM   #21
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I thought internet bullying was bad?
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      06-05-2020, 12:07 PM   #22
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I thought internet bullying was bad?
It's only bad when it's benefits someone's narrative.
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