[denrusso]

Was driving my '13 X3 with just over 90k miles this weekend when all of a sudden I received a Drive Train Malfunction error. I pulled over and had the car towed to the nearest dealership (I was 100 miles from home at the time).

Just got the call - Timing Chain snapped and I need a new engine. $6,800 for the engine plus $4,500.

Been doing a little reading here and it looks as though BMW extended the warranty on this part for 7 years/70,000 miles. I fall within the 7 years but outside the 70,000 miles so I think I'm out of luck here.

I really do like the car and intended to keep it for well over 100,000 miles. I regularly maintain it too - oil changes every 5,000 miles. I'm seriously thinking about replacing the engine which I would think would give me a used car with a brand new engine for $11k. It should last 90,000 miles - preferably more?

Or is this not a good investment as something else in the car is known to break? Just trying to review my options.

Appreciate any input on this.


Thanks,
dr

[Bruce24]

I would contact BMW and see if even though you are over the mileage for the extended warranty they can provide some help. This is a know problem caused by a poorly designed part. Unless they think 70K miles the reasonable life of an engine, I would hope they would be willing to provide some financial assistance so you can get your car back on the road.

My wife had a Dodge mini van back in the 90's and the transmission went with around 38K miles on the car, the warranty expired at 36K. After a few calls to Chrysler customer relations they agreed to pay half the cost to repair the car.

good luck,

-Bruce

[AX3]

Makes me wonder what I should do when I approach that kind of mileage. I think if I am lucky to reach 100K I'll just spend the $2500 or so and replace the timing chain guides. ( I seem to recall that is what it cost.) I have an extended warranty good to 100K.

[denrusso]

Originally Posted by AX3

Makes me wonder what I should do when I approach that kind of mileage. I think if I am lucky to reach 100K I'll just spend the $2500 or so and replace the timing chain guides. ( I seem to recall that is what it cost.) I have an extended warranty good to 100K.

I would HIGHLY recommend this. From what I understand, it's not a matter of if but when with the timing chain. And when it goes the damage is catastrophic to the engine.

It's great that BMW extended the warranty to 7/70k but they should have made it mandatory that this gets replaced if you are over this mileage.

I'll be contacting BMW of North America about this and will provide an update if I hear anything back.

The dealership did get back to me regarding the repair and provided a quote of $11k + tax. $6,400 for the engine and the remaining in labor. I have zero experience with this dealer (I was on a road trip while this happened). I contacted the mechanic that I use regularly about this. While I was on hold, he called a local dealer and was quoted $3,300 for the engine and he quoted $2,200 in labor for the swap. A possible $1,000 in other items (mounts, water pump, etc.) but impossible to tell until he has it on property. Basically $7,200 with tax from the indy shop that I use.

Needless to say the car is scheduled to get towed to the indy shop ($350 tow) for this repair.

I've maintained this car regularly and was hoping to get 150k miles from it. With this I hope to get that and more!

Will keep you updated on my progress.

My next car will be a Tesla.


Thanks,
dr

[Opie55]

These prices all sound way too low. Was this dealer going to put in a used engine?

[oVeRdOsE.]

sorry to ask, but on what engine is this an issue ?
I heard on the N20.

But N55 also ?
N52?

[MichiganMike]

Originally Posted by denrusso

My next car will be a Tesla.

Thanks,
dr

I appreciate your frustration with your X3, but here are several disadvantages to consider with regard to a Tesla.

Range limitations alone would exclude a Tesla from my consideration.

While Tesla has leading edge technology in some areas, its mechanical quality and quality control leave much to be desired. This may lead to more repairs in years to come.

http://autoweek.com/article/green-ca...here-automaker

The limited Tesla service network and lack of independent expert repair alternatives is another issue. I have no desire to be forced to rely on Tesla service centers for repairs.

The actual cost to own a Tesla appears comparable to or greater than a conventional car. Lower fuel costs are offset by other expenses.

https://www.policygenius.com/blog/ho...o-own-a-tesla/

If you get into an accident with a Tesla, it is generally more expensive to repair and more likely to be totaled than a conventional vehicle. This is driving up insurance premiums for Tesla owners.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/407...pensive-repair

[MichiganMike]

Originally Posted by oVeRdOsE.

sorry to ask, but on what engine is this an issue ?
I heard on the N20.

But N55 also ?
N52?

This discussion relates to the N20 engine in the 2013 X3 28i. Timing chain issues appear rare in the six cylinder engines, whether the N52 or N55.

[oVeRdOsE.]

Originally Posted by MichiganMike

This discussion relates to the N20 engine in the 2013 X3 28i. Timing chain issues appear rare in the six cylinder engines, whether the N52 or N55.

great. thanks

[denrusso]

Originally Posted by MichiganMike

I appreciate your frustration with your X3, but here are several disadvantages to consider with regard to a Tesla.

Range limitations alone would exclude a Tesla from my consideration.

Do you travel more than 200 miles each way? I realize this is highly dependent on where you live/commute but for me, I could drive the car to work in the morning (actually it drove me this morning) and then plug it in when I get home. I'd have essentially a full charge every day. You can even customize how much of a charge it gets at night.

Longer travel? Plug in your destination in the Nav and it will bring you to the needed superchargers along the route and even tell you how long of a charge you will need. Granted, this will add time onto your trip, especially if multiple stops are needed.

Originally Posted by MichiganMike

While Tesla has leading edge technology in some areas, its mechanical quality and quality control leave much to be desired. This may lead to more repairs in years to come.

http://autoweek.com/article/green-ca...here-automaker

This article talks specifically on the the model 3. And I agree that this is one area that they need to get better at - quality control especially on newly released models. The same happened with the x - lots of complaints at first delivery that, thankfully, have mostly been addressed.

Originally Posted by MichiganMike

The limited Tesla service network and lack of independent expert repair alternatives is another issue. I have no desire to be forced to rely on Tesla service centers for repairs.

Agreed. But this should only get better as time passes. They are a new car company mass producing cars. What was the last new brand that manufactured their own cars that weren't supercars? I guess my point is that as more and more are sold, the better of a chance we'll have of actually seeing indy shops pop up that service these autos.

Originally Posted by MichiganMike

The actual cost to own a Tesla appears comparable to or greater than a conventional car. Lower fuel costs are offset by other expenses.

https://www.policygenius.com/blog/ho...o-own-a-tesla/

This article quotes the price to insure a Tesla at $5,000 per year. I was just quoted $1,700 for a model x. Also the $7,500 tax credit, as of right now, is still available. And, as I live in NY, I get a $500 rebate at point of sale. Not sure how you can quantify the self-driving ability of the car, but that is a huge feature. When used properly, this would significantly change my daily commute in traffic.

Originally Posted by MichiganMike

If you get into an accident with a Tesla, it is generally more expensive to repair and more likely to be totaled than a conventional vehicle. This is driving up insurance premiums for Tesla owners.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/407...pensive-repair

Agreed. I think part of this is that they are still new relative to other car manufacturers and also the technology used. If you damage the battery pack in an accident it may prove more expensive to fix and ultimately lead to the car being totaled by the insurance company. Really can't argue this point.

It comes down to personal preference. Some people like them and others don't. That's why we have some many cars to choose from.


Thanks,
dr

[denrusso]

Originally Posted by Opie55

These prices all sound way too low. Was this dealer going to put in a used engine?

That's what I and my indy mechanic thought as well. Apparently he said the dealer mentioned that the prices have gone down recently on the N20?

What I don't understand is why two different dealers are quoting two different prices for the same engine? Unless the dealer that quoted $6,400 is including a slew of new parts in addition to the engine (i.e. water pump?) whereas the indy is just buying the engine and will attempt to salvage as much as possible from the old model.

Not sure.

I'll keep this updated as I learn more.


Thanks,
dr

[MichiganMike]

Originally Posted by denrusso

Do you travel more than 200 miles each way?
Longer travel? Plug in your destination in the Nav and it will bring you to the needed superchargers along the route and even tell you how long of a charge you will need.

It comes down to personal preference. Some people like them and others don't. That's why we have some many cars to choose from.

I take 600 mile trips several times per year from Maryland to Michigan. There are few if any convenient superchargers along my route. The last thing I want to do is add several hours charging time to my 10+ hour drive time. I also have a residence in a condo building with no charger option available.

There is currently no Tesla service center in the state of Michigan. There may be support for Tesla in large urban areas on the coasts, but not much infrastructure for my cross country trips.

The Tesla quality control problems do not appear limited to the early builds or the Model 3. QC may improve with time, but how well the Tesla ages remains an open question.

http://www.thedrive.com/sheetmetal/9...-still-so-poor

If I have a bad experience with a BMW dealer, I may change dealers or find an independent without driving too far. This is not always the case with Tesla due to its much more limited dealer and service network.

I have a friend in Florida who has a Tesla with a salvage title after minor damage. His local Tesla dealer will not sell him parts for the vehicle or provide any service because of the salvage title. It appears the dealer may be concerned about potential liability.

As you suggested, if the Tesla fits your driving needs, it may be a more viable option than it is for me. Good luck.

[denrusso]

Originally Posted by MichiganMike

I take 600 mile trips several times per year from Maryland to Michigan. There are few if any convenient superchargers along my route. The last thing I want to do is add several hours charging time to my 10+ hour drive time. I also have a residence in a condo building with no charger option available.

Our equine dentist is based in Florida and drives 60,000 miles per year in his Tesla up and down the coast and throughout the midwest. Check out his blog here:

https://theequinepractice.com/travels-with-doc-t/tesla/

Point is you can travel wherever you need with one of these vehicles and, with the supercharger network, never have to pay for a fill-up.

I did a search on tesla.com from Detriot to Baltimore - three charging stops adding an hour and 30 minutes to your 8.5 hour drive.

Originally Posted by MichiganMike

There is currently no Tesla service center in the state of Michigan. There may be support for Tesla in large urban areas on the coasts, but not much infrastructure for my cross country trips.

Yes, the ongoing legal battle between Michigan and Tesla. If you live in this state, I can see why this car would not work for you. These laws are antiquated and should be overturned and that should happen in time.

Originally Posted by MichiganMike

The Tesla quality control problems do not appear limited to the early builds or the Model 3. QC may improve with time, but how well the Tesla ages remains an open question.

http://www.thedrive.com/sheetmetal/9...-still-so-poor

Tesla continues to make improvements in their manufacturing. This article is from over a year ago.

Originally Posted by MichiganMike

If I have a bad experience with a BMW dealer, I may change dealers or find an independent without driving too far. This is not always the case with Tesla due to its much more limited dealer and service network.

I have a friend in Florida who has a Tesla with a salvage title after minor damage. His local Tesla dealer will not sell him parts for the vehicle or provide any service because of the salvage title. It appears the dealer may be concerned about potential liability.

As you suggested, if the Tesla fits your driving needs, it may be a more viable option than it is for me. Good luck.

Agreed!


Thanks,
dr

[MichiganMike]

Originally Posted by denrusso

Our equine dentist is based in Florida and drives 60,000 miles per year in his Tesla up and down the coast and throughout the midwest. Check out his blog here:

https://theequinepractice.com/travels-with-doc-t/tesla/

Point is you can travel wherever you need with one of these vehicles and, with the supercharger network, never have to pay for a fill-up.

I did a search on tesla.com from Detriot to Baltimore - three charging stops adding an hour and 30 minutes to your 8.5 hour drive.

There are many Tesla owners and disciples that love their vehicles. Good for them, but I am not among the converted. You have much more confidence than I do that Tesla's manufacturing and QC problems are largely in the past.

Michigan indeed is a disadvantaged location to own a Tesla. The Tesla supercharger network offers me little routine benefit when the closest installation is 25 miles from my home at a location I rarely visit. There is no Tesla service center within 150 miles of my Michigan location. Perhaps this will change in time as you suggested.

I checked my route on Tesla's web page. My charge time was two hours in one direction and two hours and twenty minutes on the return trip. The charge time does not include the time required for detours off the turnpikes to reach the charging stations. This would add more than 20% to my current travel time. Moreover, it appears that I have little if any range left at the destination following the Tesla route plan, so I need to find another charging station quickly upon arrival.

The Tesla route plan for my trips also includes no flexibility for spontaneous detours to visit the granddaughter on route, as we did recently, which may provide grounds for a costly divorce if my wife's desires are thwarted. I generally travel with two dogs on long trips and it is convenient to stop when and where they or their humans need a break, which may not correspond to a charging station location. I will continue to pay for gasoline or diesel to enjoy the flexibility it offers.

If you desire a Tesla, it makes sense to purchase one before the $7,500 Federal Tax Credit begins to phase out late this year. It will be interesting to see how the looming loss of these tax credits may impact Tesla sales in the future.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/...phase-out.aspx

[jsublime]

Hey OP, just curious, do you use the auto stop-start?

[denrusso]

Originally Posted by jsublime

Hey OP, just curious, do you use the auto stop-start?

Yes - it stays on for the most part.


Thanks,
dr

[Lurcher]

Originally Posted by oVeRdOsE.

sorry to ask, but on what engine is this an issue ?
I heard on the N20.

But N55 also ?
N52?

Look under his name on left shows model (28i), though it would have been nice in the title..

[jsublime]

Originally Posted by denrusso

Yes - it stays on for the most part.


Thanks,
dr

It's been suggested that could be a cause, the timing chain has a small amount of slack when the engine is not running so every start places some strain on the components thereby fatiguing them. I've been planning to post up our experience with our X3, it's over 100k and so far no major issues. We turned ASS off upon delivery.

Just some quick math - a normal weekday commute for many might look like this: drive to school (drop kids off), drive to work, maybe run an errand during the day, return to work, drive to get kids, drive home. That's six starts total. If ASS was enabled, the vehicle would probably be starting more than 50 times over the course of a single day. Big difference.

I wish you luck with your negotiations!

[denrusso]

Originally Posted by jsublime

It's been suggested that could be a cause, the timing chain has a small amount of slack when the engine is not running so every start places some strain on the components thereby fatiguing them. I've been planning to post up our experience with our X3, it's over 100k and so far no major issues. We turned ASS off upon delivery.

I wish you luck with your negotiations!

Come to think of it, it may have snapped after ASS engaged after stopping on the side of the road. I just don't recall if the engine was off at the time of the stop but it did happen after we pulled over on the side of the road.

Just curious, how did you turn off ASS?


Thanks,
dr

[jsublime]

Originally Posted by denrusso

Come to think of it, it may have snapped after ASS engaged after stopping on the side of the road. I just don't recall if the engine was off at the time of the stop but it did happen after we pulled over on the side of the road.

Just curious, how did you turn off ASS?


Thanks,
dr

There's a button next to the Start button that disables it (at least for MY15).

[denrusso]

Originally Posted by jsublime

There's a button next to the Start button that disables it (at least for MY15).

Yes, I have that as well. I turn it off sometimes, just don't remember to do it every time I drive.

Is there a way to turn the feature off for when you start the vehicle?


Thanks,
dr

[02420X3]

Originally Posted by denrusso

Yes, I have that as well. I turn it off sometimes, just don't remember to do it every time I drive.

Is there a way to turn the feature off for when you start the vehicle?


Thanks,
dr

BMW dealers are reported to be authorized to do a 1-time disable of ASS - my memory is foggy, perhaps it's actually a 1-time coding of "remember last ASS status". It can also be coded.