[KoenG]

I understand it's an incredible performance machine and in the sum of all its capabilities is a very high achiever. On the other hand, suggesting it's the "ultimate mountain road carver" seems a bit miscasted for a heavy vehicle with a high center of gravity.

On the other hand, I can imagine how satisfying it must be to push the X3M a bit on free mountain roads! Those are typical the moments you can really enjoy the beast in the M.

[spuntyb]

Love the stable. Thanks for the write up!

[PawnStar]

Originally Posted by phantom7835

I know this is bordering on overly critical but if you say you focus on raw driving experience, and you think an electrically assisted, slushbox automatic, muffled cabin, 2.5 ton SUV fits that description - you really shouldn't be writing any kind of review with sporty intent. It's ok to just say you enjoy the comfort of it and the "sporty feel"

We talked about getting a non comp to replace our aging X1 - which I also hate but she likes - and after taking it through the car and driver 10Best route I was left feeling like I was in an alternate world of boredom compared to reviews we read going into it.

I can't help but think that everyone giving these things (and the 4,5,6 XM) overly glorious reviews is just coping with the fact that they had to get a crossover for some forsaken reason, but really wanted an M2/3/4/5/8 - or they're just professional reviewers being paid by BMW to say nice things about it.

Rant over

^this

Yeah, 2.5 ton SUV with numb steering and ‘slushbox automatic’ immediately comes to my mind when I think ‘mountain roads carving’.

[GrandMasterKhan]

Here is a video link of one of the runs. I’ve had a bit of difficulty getting it to upload in HD so hopefully it looks ok for you guys. Unfortunately the dash cam didn’t save the really good runs I had from the Hillclimb and the Dragon itself.

So here is a run down 28
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cT6...w?usp=drivesdk

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by GrandMasterKhan

Here is a video link of one of the runs. I’ve had a bit of difficulty getting it to upload in HD so hopefully it looks ok for you guys.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cT6...w?usp=drivesdk

Awesome! Looks like a ton of fun! I wish you could post a longer video.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by phantom7835

I hate crossovers with the white hot passion of a thousand suns.

They are a lazy compromise and 99% of people are better off just buying a proper SUV or a sedan. They bring the illusion of an "all rounder" but in reality are a master of none.

These hyper-crossovers may be fast enough in a straight line and have stiff enough suspension to wow some people - but at the end of the day they're a compromise.

Agreed. But based on my extensive experience with the Macan I do find it to be legit, and from what I've read the X3M is also legit. Unfortunately CUV/SUVs are a reality we will all have to succumb to, but I will personally only drive a coupe/sedan/convertible and have the bigger car for the wife/kids whenever that happens lol.

For real though, as great as the Macan is, as soon as I get back into a sedan I feel so much better. The Macan drives like a car, but at the end of the day it still feels big and sits up high. The driving position I feel most engaged in is nice and low.

[justmill]

Originally Posted by phantom7835

I hate crossovers with the white hot passion of a thousand suns.

They are a lazy compromise and 99% of people are better off just buying a proper SUV or a sedan. They bring the illusion of an "all rounder" but in reality are a master of none.

These hyper-crossovers may be fast enough in a straight line and have stiff enough suspension to wow some people - but at the end of the day they're a compromise.

I don't consider it a compromise, just a better choice honestly. Few people are going to eke out the performance difference between a M sedan and a M SUV. I think these SUVs in a lot of ways make the sedans obsolete.

I have better ground clearance, better visibility, more cargo space and I can still whip the vehicle around like it's sports car. A sedan wouldn't change a single thing about how I drive this car other than how much I can stuff inside of it.

Looks being subjective and all, I think the X3s is the best looking SUV in the market, and one of the better looking BMWs in production.

[phantom7835]

Originally Posted by GrandMasterKhan

ahhh I misunderstood. I thought you took the X1 on that route. What is the route like? I am not familiar with Michigan. Any pics of your M2? Have you done any mods to it?

Also, i'll have some video of my runs here soon. My laptop was too old to process it properly so I couldnt get the HD to process on my youtube upload.

Your welcome! I honestly expected criticism because its crazy to think an SUV could be fun, and I also know its absolutely not the right car for everyone. Which is also in part of why I did this review. Because, the X3M is harsh, but with a purpose most will never understand, and that is ok.

It's near Unadilla Michigan, hard to explain but it's the only decent driving area within any reasonable distance. Doesn't lay a finger on blue ridge or the skyway, but it's miles better than city blocks.

M2C is bare to the bone stock. Aluminum pedals and MP mirror caps I picked up for nearly-free at a junkyard are all I've added. Don't see a need to mod it (aside from camber plates or correction hubs) as I don't see anything besides myself being the bottleneck as far as performance around a track goes. Coming from a NA miata, which I feel I have mastered, it's a completely different world.

[TheStanman]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

For real though, as great as the Macan is, as soon as I get back into a sedan I feel so much better. The Macan drives like a car, but at the end of the day it still feels big and sits up high. The driving position I feel most engaged in is nice and low.

I purchased a Macan GTS after my 991 was totaled last November and completely agree. It's a remarkable vehicle in so many ways, but I just can't get the same driving experience because the weight and high center of gravity.

So, a 992 C2S is on the way

I think some of the hate is coming from the 'perfect mountain carving machine'. It most certainly is not, no SUV or even sedan is. But it might be shockingly good while being practical. Imagine how good the G80 will be

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by TheStanman

I purchased a Macan GTS after my 991 was totaled last November and completely agree. It's a remarkable vehicle in so many ways, but I just can't get the same driving experience because the weight and high center of gravity.

So, a 992 C2S is on the way

I think some of the hate is coming from the 'perfect mountain carving machine'. It most certainly is not, no SUV or even sedan is. But it might be shockingly good while being practical. Imagine how good the G80 will be

Yes, it’s not the perfect mountain carving machine but it’s a shickingly good imitation of a sport sedan feel while also being supremely practical. I don’t know how they did but there is literally no body roll in the curves. Weight is high but it is not crazy high - 100 lbs more than the standard M5.

[nakamuru]

Originally Posted by GrandMasterKhan

Hello Bimmerpost! Thanks for taking a moment to read through my Review of the X3M. If you have the time I'd like to invite you to hear my thoughts on the X3M from a true driving enthusiast perspective and help everyone understand why the X3M exists and how it caters to a market I didn't realize existed until I experienced it for myself.






To give you a little back ground on myself. I grew up in the mountains and I enjoy going to the Tail of the Dragon, and it's amazing surrounding roads, for vacation usually once or twice a year and have been going since 2002. Being behind the wheel is my happy place and my choice in cars has always reflected that. As such I have always bought cars which have excellent driving feel, feedback and performance. I like cars which are Raw and focus on fun over luxury. I am perfectly happy listening to engine with the radio off and feeling the road beneath me.



I own a boosted S2000, which I have taken to the dragon many times when it was Rotrex supercharged with 355whp. As those who know, the S2000 is driver focused to a fault, it's a fantastic handling machine and with the supercharger it made it the perfect car for fun in the mountains.



I also own a built Lancer Evolution 9 known as the Evil IX. It is my purpose built autoX and Tail of the Dragon machine with Ohlin suspension, and 440whp. A perfect balance of handing, awd traction and power for the mountains. I have always brought the s2000 and Evo up to the Dragon with race tires, as it helps provide that extra safety margin when driving briskly.



My most recent daily driver was a Dinan tuned M240i 6 speed. I set this car up with using the factory Michelin Pilot super sports 245 square to help improve turn in bite and eliminate understeer. I opted for the M performance LSD to put the power down, Dinan lowering springs, Dinan intake, Dinan Stage 1 tune and the Dinan full cat back exhaust, which all sang together to the tune of 390whp. All my cars have been modified and designed for performance in mind. The M240i was my first new car, and only checked the boxes which made the car faster, with no extra fluff. I even deleted the moonroof in the pursuit of the ultimate drivers car. While I enjoyed the M240 as a daily, ultimately I turned in the Dinan M240i for the X3M and haven't looked back. When I returned the M240i back to stock. It was a shocking difference, the Dinan mods really made that car a fantastic machine, it felt numb by comparison returned to stock.



I prefer cars that are Raw and focus on the driving experience. The X3M fits this perfectly. Of course, I can't leave anything alone and always modify my cars to my specific liking. Usually, There is always something I feel like I need to change to make the car feel just right. Honestly, the X3M is the first car which I honestly don't feel like I need to change anything with the suspension. It's that good. Of course because I can't leave anything alone, I do plan on doing the Dinan Exhaust and a tune here soon. Because the stock exhaust is a hair tame and who doesn't want more power? It's part of why I chose to go with the X3M base over the Competition model. I planned ahead to modify it.



After driving the X3M in the mountains, I am now presented with a dilemma. A question that I never thought possible. Next time do I bring the X3M or the purpose built Evo?



The simple fact that this question exists, should put things in perspective on how great the X3M performs in the mountains. This shouldn't be possible, yet here we are. The X3M can comfortably carry all the camping gear, provide navigation, heated seats, and the beautiful leather and carbon fiber interior that only M cars can provide. The X3M reshapes the reality of what a vehicle is capable of and I swear I am not fluffing this car up. It's really that good. I implore you, if you take an X3M for a test drive, please try and find some twisty roads. Because simply blasting it, and feeling the S58 power in a straight line along with the 'harshness' of the suspension as you drive in traffic around the dealership, will leave you far disconnected on what the X3M truly is. You will completely miss the point of this car simply driving it around the block and it's no wonder so many reviews say the suspension is harsh and bumpy. You have to experience the X3M in its true element to understand why the suspension feels like it does.



This car is for the driving enthusiast. Someone who likes the Raw Feeling of an M, and yet can still enjoy peaceful quiet with the windows up or even enjoy music on the fantastic sound system. The suspension feels perfect to me because I am used to hard suspension like on the Lancer Evo, or my S2000 on KW v3 coil overs. However, While the X3M suspension feels hard driving around the block during day to day traffic, when driving it full tilt on the SCCA hillclimb road's extremely harsh and very uneven tarmac, the X3M's dampers really come to life and show their true purpose. The road seems like it was paved straight over the forest with no regards to smoothness, the road is very old and the tarmac is more like solid gravel than asphalt. It sails through the uneven surface, and it doesn't rattle your teeth out like you would expect from a 'hard' suspension. I remember distinctly this same road in the M240i felt much more hash than it did in the X3M. The X3M's ability to control the weight transfer while cornering is incredible, and it feels exactly how I expect a fun car to feel. How exactly does the X3M perform in the mountains? I can tell you shockingly enough that the X3M is the first car I brought up to the dragon which I didn't feel like I had to hold back because the car couldn't do it. And that is saying something because I can almost always find the limit. The X3M feels unstoppable, with an insatiable thirst for speed.



At no point did the X3M show any disadvantage or issue despite its heft. The S2000's brakes would overheat, the EVO needed better tires and some suspension work to really make it sing and rotate how I wanted. The M240 easily overheated the factory tires and got squirmy. I could really feel the extra weight of the M240 over the Evo and S2000. The X3M however, as shocking as this is to say. I couldn't feel the weight, despite the fact it is 1600lbs heavier than my EVO and 1100 lbs heavier than my M240i. At no point did I feel like the X3M had any disadvantage. The X3M just feels solid and planted. The Suspension In sport Plus did an incredible job handing the uneven undulations of the SCCA Hillclimb Road's rough pavement. The Brakes never faded, even after being late braked deep into hairpins on Happy Valley Road. The steering was incredibly sharp and reminded me of the EVO on the rapid switch backs on the smooth narrow roads above Fontana Village.




Keep in mind however, that driving in the mountains is very different experience than racing on a road course. Mountain roads have rapid banked switch backs, constant undulations in the pavement and the tarmac surface can change from moment to moment and you might even have to dodge a pothole or two. The X3M suspension handled it all with incredible mind bending precision. An SUV that handles like this shouldn't exist, yet it does. Now, don't misunderstand me. Obviously, my other cars would handily beat the X3M on a road course, as they are indeed faster cars, but within the limits of my sanity on the mountain backroads, the X3M performed impressively well. The Simple fact I was able to drive how I enjoy driving, without holding back is monumentally impressive.



Honestly, I feel like the X3M couldn't exist without it's M Sport All wheel drive system. It worked with mind bending precision and could be felt helping the SUV rotate through the turns under throttle. No hint of understeer, even late braking hard into a hair pin, the AWD system feels like the hand of God is coming down to rotate the car incredibly sharply. Even my Evo can't do that with such precision. The brakes handled the repeated hard braking with ease, reminiscent of Captain America. "I can do this all day."



The tires never once protested with what I asked them to do. They moved this 4600 lb SUV with ease, maintaining temperatures in the mid 150s in 95 degree heat, for comparison My Evo would be near 200 during an autoX and I would also see mid 150s in the mountains. What is really neat is that the tire psi system is capable of suggesting the correct tire psi based on tire temperature and target driving speed. I had mine set to the over 100mph setting. Under normal highway driving the tires are around 115 degrees on average.

The S58 engine is another monument of achievement. As I blasted up the SCCA hillclimb road the engine temp stayed as steady as it did on the way home on the interstate in the rain. The power delivery is excellent and the transmissions shifts in S3 are sharp, I did feel like D3 would not quite hold the right gear coming out of hairpins, so I opted to manually shift instead. While D3 works fantastic for straight line acceleration, I did feel like manually shifting in S3 was the best way to enjoy the X3M in the mountains. An interesting note for those who are curious, I got a staggering 7.4 mpg while having fun and a solid 25.9 mpg on the high on the way home. Not bad at all I say!




Of course the X3M experience isn't all about the engine and suspension. The panoramic sunroof is sure to impress, especially when you open the shade for the first time and it keeps going and going, My rear passengers were in awe. It was wonderful to have heated rear seats as rear passengers loved that along with the independent rear heat/ac controls.

The convenience feature which has very much impressed me is the active cruise control. Honestly, I had never used cruise control much in my other cars, because of the constant adjustments needed for traffic flow. The active cruise control handles this amazingly, even slowing down and starting again from a stop in heavy interstate traffic. I wouldn't have to touch the gas or brake at all while following my caravan of friends on the way home. Even, the lane keep assist is handy with a simple on/off switch, which although it's not exactly auto-pilot it does help take the wheel for you if you have to take your hands off the wheel for a few seconds. Even the blindspot system works great and the collision mitigation system saved me at least once when I didn't see a car coming while reversing. A warning alerted me and applied the brakes. I will say one thing that is interesting with the safety system, if you have the windows down and do a full hard stop and engage the ABS the car apparently thinks you are about to die and it rolls up the windows very rapidly. Apparently this is a BMW thing, But I can see this being annoying on a road course, but honestly I don't think the X3M will ever see an actual race track. So perhaps if this feature is present on the M3 it might be intrusive.



Surely by now you are thinking. The X3M can't be perfect. There must be something I don't like. Honestly truth be told I love almost everything about this car. I can say I am very glad I went with the M Sport Seats, because I very much dislike the standard seats. "Comfort" Is subjective, and plush soft seats like the 5 or 7 series feel foreign to me. The Standard X3M seats are blah to me. Another complaint is the Apple Car play is quite buggy, I don't know if it should attribute this to poor connection, my phone or the car. The wireless charging is also worthless, and provides more heat than it does power to my iPhone X, but I suppose it's better than nothing. I end up using my charging cable instead.

I hope this helps those who are interested in either buying an X3M or own one and are curious how the X3M will perform in the mountains. IMO this is the ideal environment for this car. If I ever had any doubt the X3M had a place in my Stable of 500 hp cars, that doubt is now gone. Honestly, I plan to use the X3M to tow the EVO to track days and I secretly hope the EVO has a mishap so I have no choice but to put the X3M on the track. I think that would be hilarious to flex the tow vehicle on a track day and actually do well.

In summary.
-An SUV shouldn't be able to be this fast in the mountains, But it is.
-If you never drive this in the mountains, you'll miss the whole point of the X3M
-You could take your RaceCar, but the temptation to bring the X3M instead is strong.

-Kenneth

Anyone actually read whole thing i just saw pictures which were nice 👍

[secretariat]

The Stanman:I purchased a Macan GTS after my 991 was totaled last November and completely agree. It's a remarkable vehicle in so many ways, but I just can't get the same driving experience because the weight and high center of gravity.

So, a 992 C2S is on the way

I think some of the hate is coming from the 'perfect mountain carving machine'. It most certainly is not, no SUV or even sedan is. But it might be shockingly good while being practical. Imagine how good the G80 will be

I hope the 992 C2S is a manual.

[xcusem3]

It's still a damn SUV, no thanks I'll keep my e92 m3 for the twisties!

[richard in NC]

Since I don't yet own an X3M or having driven one, I can't directly comment on it but I can throw my 2 cents in.

Many years ago I took my '11 X5 50i to the Tail of the Dragon. I was able to keep up with our groups E92 M3s and E46 M3s, and outran an E39 M5! Being a public road, no one was at their car's limits and in the end it came down to driver skill and how hard you wanted to push the car on a public road. The X3M should handily out-perform that X5 50i and feel better at that.

Second, At the BMW Performance Center autocross, match these times (84 seconds, 86,88,90) with the following cars, my stock M2C, M2C with camber plates and R comps, a stripped, caged, track ready e36 M3, or a bone stock X4M?



Believe it or not, I witnessed Mike Renner do an 84 second lap in the bone stock X4M with 3 passengers. Beating the next best time of the day by > 2 seconds over fully tracked prepped cars with experienced drivers.

[Transfer]

Originally Posted by justmill

I don't consider it a compromise, just a better choice honestly. Few people are going to eke out the performance difference between a M sedan and a M SUV. I think these SUVs in a lot of ways make the sedans obsolete.

I have better ground clearance, better visibility, more cargo space and I can still whip the vehicle around like it's sports car. A sedan wouldn't change a single thing about how I drive this car other than how much I can stuff inside of it.

Looks being subjective and all, I think the X3s is the best looking SUV in the market, and one of the better looking BMWs in production.

Agreed. I still hit insane speeds, rip corners, and enjoy the sights and sounds of an M. The only difference for me is the functional aspect and I won't be tracking it (although as we've discussed, you could!), but I'm not going back to the tracking my DD game.

[GrandMasterKhan]

Originally Posted by richard in NC

Since I don't yet own an X3M or having driven one, I can't directly comment on it but I can throw my 2 cents in.

Many years ago I took my '11 X5 50i to the Tail of the Dragon. I was able to keep up with our groups E92 M3s and E46 M3s, and outran an E39 M5! Being a public road, no one was at their car's limits and in the end it came down to driver skill and how hard you wanted to push the car on a public road. The X3M should handily out-perform that X5 50i and feel better at that.

Second, At the BMW Performance Center autocross, match these times (84 seconds, 86,88,90) with the following cars, my stock M2C, M2C with camber plates and R comps, a stripped, caged, track ready e36 M3, or a bone stock X4M?



Believe it or not, I witnessed Mike Renner do an 84 second lap in the bone stock X4M with 3 passengers. Beating the next best time of the day by > 2 seconds over fully tracked prepped cars with experienced drivers.

dude! You totally get it! I am thankful that I too have been able to enjoy the BMW Performance Center in Greenville twice and Thermal once. I got to drive Performance Center's red X4M. It was very impressive! and the X6M i got sideways in the chicane, my poor passenger was a salesman that was 6 seconds lower than me on a 25 second course. He was white knuckling it lol.

You are absolutely right. There is indeed a safe limit to which someone can drive on roads like the Tail of the Dragon and surrounding areas, Since they are not an wide open roadcourse obviously. My entire sentiment is that the X3M was able to reach that safe limit easily, and be just as fun while doing it and hauling cargo!

[AlpineWhite_SJ]

Originally Posted by richard in NC

Since I don't yet own an X3M or having driven one, I can't directly comment on it but I can throw my 2 cents in.

Many years ago I took my '11 X5 50i to the Tail of the Dragon. I was able to keep up with our groups E92 M3s and E46 M3s, and outran an E39 M5! Being a public road, no one was at their car's limits and in the end it came down to driver skill and how hard you wanted to push the car on a public road. The X3M should handily out-perform that X5 50i and feel better at that.

Second, At the BMW Performance Center autocross, match these times (84 seconds, 86,88,90) with the following cars, my stock M2C, M2C with camber plates and R comps, a stripped, caged, track ready e36 M3, or a bone stock X4M?



Believe it or not, I witnessed Mike Renner do an 84 second lap in the bone stock X4M with 3 passengers. Beating the next best time of the day by > 2 seconds over fully tracked prepped cars with experienced drivers.

These SUVs can easily do as much as sedans/coupes (as the lap times and skid pad numbers prove), but it feels unnatural because of the height. It's counterintuitive that they won't get body roll or lose traction, so unless you're on a track or a skid pad, I'm pretty sure most owners aren't pushing them as hard as they can handle. Public roads aren't the place to find the limits of your car, but once you've felt out what their limits are properly, I'm sure many would be as confident as they would be in a M2/3/4/5.

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by AlpineWhite_SJ

These SUVs can easily do as much as sedans/coupes (as the lap times and skid pad numbers prove), but it feels unnatural because of the height. It's counterintuitive that they won't get body roll or lose traction, so unless you're on a track or a skid pad, I'm pretty sure most owners aren't pushing them as hard as they can handle. Public roads aren't the place to find the limits of your car, but once you've felt out what their limits are properly, I'm sure many would be as confident as they would be in a M2/3/4/5.

I feel much more confident in this car’s abilities after lowering it and putting wider tires. This thing really grips now.

[GrandMasterKhan]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

I feel much more confident in this car’s abilities after lowering it and putting wider tires. This thing really grips now.

What did you lower it with?

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by GrandMasterKhan

What did you lower it with?

MSS springs

[AlpineWhite_SJ]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

I feel much more confident in this car’s abilities after lowering it and putting wider tires. This thing really grips now.

Don't doubt it, but my point is comfort level with the car somewhat. My first car I got to drive was a '91 Ford Explorer XLT and being young, and well dumb, I knew exactly what that car felt like when it was going to go sideways and could correct it pretty predictably. In the rain I could slide a roundabout with just steering and some throttle control. I can't claim to know the limit of this car in the same way because, now older and hopefully wiser, I know that with the available HP on tap, I could get in trouble real quick and it's a bit of jackass-ery to do so on public roads. I'd feel a lot more confident if I'd lost it repeatedly in a controlled environment to get a better feel for how it breaks loose and what it does with input to correct. That's all.

PS - Looking good, btw..

[GrandMasterKhan]

Originally Posted by phantom7835

It's near Unadilla Michigan, hard to explain but it's the only decent driving area within any reasonable distance. Doesn't lay a finger on blue ridge or the skyway, but it's miles better than city blocks.

M2C is bare to the bone stock. Aluminum pedals and MP mirror caps I picked up for nearly-free at a junkyard are all I've added. Don't see a need to mod it (aside from camber plates or correction hubs) as I don't see anything besides myself being the bottleneck as far as performance around a track goes. Coming from a NA miata, which I feel I have mastered, it's a completely different world.

ahh ok! Awesome M2, that's my favorite color!

I have driven the Blue Ridge Parkway and the Cherohola Skyway extensively, they are great for stretching the legs of a fast and fun car, but they are not nearly as technical as the Tail of the Dragon or the immediate surrounding roads. The tail of the Dragon for example will have 10 times as many corners as a similar length of the Parkway or Skyway. It's a completely different kind of experience.

I implore you, if you ever get the chance, please plan a week and bring your M2 down the to the Tail of the Dragon. I suggest to drive it during the week if you want to have more room to play. You will not regret it!