Engine Education!

abailey08 · 03-28-2011, 01:13 PM

Hi,

I was wondering if someone could educate me about engines, and what the difference will be between the Turbo 4 cylinder that BMW plans on popping in place of the current 6 cylinder engine in the 28i. From what I'm seeing, the new engine will have more horsepower, but less fuel consumption. So is there even a con? How do these engines compare to each other? Any reason not to just wait until Q4 and pick up the 28i X3 then?

bekind · 03-28-2011, 01:27 PM

The cons is that the naturally aspirated i6 in use today is rock solid and when you step up to Turbos you are dealing with more moving parts, higher heat, and potentially higher maintenance.

If you stay out of boost (easy on the gas) on the Turbos you can get good MPG numbers in theory.

Mako · 03-28-2011, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bekind

The cons is that the naturally aspirated i6 in use today is rock solid and when you step up to Turbos you are dealing with more moving parts, higher heat, higher fuel pressures and potentially higher maintenance.

If you stay out of boost (easy on the gas) on the Turbos you can get good MPG numbers in theory.

well if you plan on selling the car before 50,000 miles (warranty and maint. run out) then this doesn't matter. If you want to keep it until 100K miles, then this matters...

bekind · 03-28-2011, 01:44 PM

Good point.

For the record we currently have 2 turbo cars. I do feel like they are the wave of the future and are way more fun to drive in most situations. However there are still times where I repeat the age old saying over and over again when I am driving "There is no replacement for displacement!"

The only n/a motor we have is the 5.3L V8 in the Tahoe.

I also want to move into a 2012 AMG C63 in the near future so we may be down to only the turbo 35i. Time will tell...

abailey08 · 03-28-2011, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mako

well if you plan on selling the car before 50,000 miles (warranty and maint. run out) then this doesn't matter. If you want to keep it until 100K miles, then this matters...

I take this to mean that if you want to keep the car for more than 50,000 miles, it's best to stay with the current engine instead of the turbo?

jijioben · 03-28-2011, 01:46 PM

I find that even the smoothest turbo will make itself felt, thus changing the driving characteristics of a normally aspirated engine. That said, the X3's turbo is excellent and I like the airplane-like acceleration it brings to the car.

Beyu · 03-28-2011, 02:02 PM

Quite a few people on here have been considering waiting until the new turbo 4 comes out like you've said. For the average person the new engine is more than adequate for them but as Bekind has mentioned the current inline 6 is tried and true while the turbo 4 is not. While I'm not sure if all turbos use a HPFP I know the N54 and now the N55 (X3 35i) both have problems. While the problem had supposedly been fixed years ago and is not suppose to be an issue with the N55, BMW has at the same time extended the HPFP warranty to 10 years or 100k miles. Cars with turbos also always have to spool up before the power kicks in, some engines just happen to have faster spool times or have a less noticeable lag.

Want the thrill · 03-28-2011, 02:12 PM

Well none of this make me smile. I was planning on keeping the vehicle for 8-10 years being that I only put on about 10,000 miles or less a year.

bekind · 03-28-2011, 02:35 PM

Concerning the HPFP issues, for some reason I thought that was more associated with the direct injection turbos compared to regular injection turbos. I left this out initially becasue I wasn't sure if the new i4 turbo will be direct injection or not. If it is then the HPFP issues is also a real concern.

tuco44 · 03-28-2011, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Want the thrill

Well none of this make me smile. I was planning on keeping the vehicle for 8-10 years being that I only put on about 10,000 miles or less a year.

I wouldn't worry too much about it. I had a '08 535xi that I put 22,000 kms on with zero HPFP issues. I know of many similar cars with no issues. You hear about the ones with the problem, but those who are problem-free don't comment (usually).

If you have ordered or bought a new X3 35i, I suggest relax and enjoy it. Who really knows if the HPFP issue is really fixed, but don't let that take away from your enjoyment of your new ride.

lateshow · 03-28-2011, 02:50 PM

Although a much different engine and car, I am trading in my 2009 Acura RDX with a turbo 4 cylinder for the 35i. Although the Acura is quick and a well engineered car, I found the engine to be a little "buzy" at times. I tend to drive my cars with a purpose and I always felt that the Acura was working pretty hard to perform. The V6 in the BMW doesn't need to work as hard to get better results.

Want the thrill · 03-28-2011, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuco44

I wouldn't worry too much about it. I had a '08 535xi that I put 22,000 kms on with zero HPFP issues. I know of many similar cars with no issues. You hear about the ones with the problem, but those who are problem-free don't comment (usually).

If you have ordered or bought a new X3 35i, I suggest relax and enjoy it. Who really knows if the HPFP issue is really fixed, but don't let that take away from your enjoyment of your new ride.

I know, but when you are about to plunk down 50 grand for a vehicle, you don't want to already have doubts whether it will make it 5 years and beyond. I just love the X3 and can't stop thinking about it since I test drove the original back in '09. Test drove the new one and loved it even more. Just want the Joy to last...

Beyu · 03-28-2011, 04:04 PM

It shouldn't be too bad, I've heard that after 8-10k miles if your HPFP doesn't show signs of failing it's very unlikely that anything will go wrong with it. Even then if the pump fails there's still a 10 year warranty, it's definitely a hassle to take the car to the dealership to get it fixed but at least it's nothing that you have to pay out of pocket.

Want the thrill · 03-28-2011, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beyu

It shouldn't be too bad, I've heard that after 8-10k miles if your HPFP doesn't show signs of failing it's very unlikely that anything will go wrong with it. Even then if the pump fails there's still a 10 year warranty, it's definitely a hassle to take the car to the dealership to get it fixed but at least it's nothing that you have to pay out of pocket.

I'm not so much worried about the HPFP issue because it is under warranty, but that the engine itself will be ok. I like the fact that the 28i's engine is tried and true. Don't like that it doesn't have the power of the 35i.

Batman2000 · 03-28-2011, 05:07 PM

The power issue is of concern to some, but not for all... In my case, I live in a city with traffic jams all day long. I drive my car over 100k/h for very small distances, usually from home to work and back (not more than 10 minutes). I was tempted to wait for the 3.5i (not yet available here) but the extra price (here) was not worth it, it was going to be money spent in something I wasn't going to use that much: extra power. I also love the fact that the engine is an ages-tested model. Over here they don´t give you the extra warranty over the turbo, so it could become a nightmare if it gives problems.

midlifecrisis · 03-28-2011, 07:28 PM

I've had several discussions with people on this subject.

It depends who you talk to, but most people believe that a NA engine will be more durable because it has fewer moving parts and isn't as "stressed". Having said that, I have friends who've had dead-reliable turbo cars for 20 years with zero engine problems. (Saabs.) I had a '85 Dodge Lancer ES and I was on my third turbo when I sold the thing with 58,000 miles on it, so I'm less inclined to buy a turbo. I'm happy to have the last of the NA M3's and a NA 6 cylinder X3.

Although none of us have driven the new turbo 4, it would be hard to beat the current 6 for smoothness. I love straight sixes!

abailey08 · 03-28-2011, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by midlifecrisis

I've had several discussions with people on this subject.

It depends who you talk to, but most people believe that a NA engine will be more durable because it has fewer moving parts and isn't as "stressed". Having said that, I have friends who've had dead-reliable turbo cars for 20 years with zero engine problems. (Saabs.) I had a '85 Dodge Lancer ES and I was on my third turbo when I sold the thing with 58,000 miles on it, so I'm less inclined to buy a turbo. I'm happy to have the last of the NA M3's and a NA 6 cylinder X3.

Although none of us have driven the new turbo 4, it would be hard to beat the current 6 for smoothness. I love straight sixes!

Glad to have been able to picked up the one with the current engine, I think ... I'm more old reliable than bleeding edge tech.

pokerface · 03-29-2011, 04:55 PM

I have a 6cyl 325i and an A4 2.0T in the stable. The 2.0 feels more peppy, there's more torque, but it's pretty buzzy (I guess all four cylinders are). The 325's inline 6 is a bit lazier but I do like the power delivery a lot more.

03-28-2011, 01:13 PM	#1
abailey08 New Member 14 Rep 21 Posts Drives: X3 xDrive28i Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Midwest iTrader: (0)	Engine Education! Hi, I was wondering if someone could educate me about engines, and what the difference will be between the Turbo 4 cylinder that BMW plans on popping in place of the current 6 cylinder engine in the 28i. From what I'm seeing, the new engine will have more horsepower, but less fuel consumption. So is there even a con? How do these engines compare to each other? Any reason not to just wait until Q4 and pick up the 28i X3 then?
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03-28-2011, 01:27 PM	#2
bekind Private 2 Rep 86 Posts Drives: x3 35i Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: ohio iTrader: (0)	The cons is that the naturally aspirated i6 in use today is rock solid and when you step up to Turbos you are dealing with more moving parts, higher heat, and potentially higher maintenance. If you stay out of boost (easy on the gas) on the Turbos you can get good MPG numbers in theory. Last edited by bekind; 03-28-2011 at 01:33 PM..
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03-28-2011, 01:44 PM	#4
bekind Private 2 Rep 86 Posts Drives: x3 35i Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: ohio iTrader: (0)	Good point. For the record we currently have 2 turbo cars. I do feel like they are the wave of the future and are way more fun to drive in most situations. However there are still times where I repeat the age old saying over and over again when I am driving "There is no replacement for displacement!" The only n/a motor we have is the 5.3L V8 in the Tahoe. I also want to move into a 2012 AMG C63 in the near future so we may be down to only the turbo 35i. Time will tell...
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03-28-2011, 01:46 PM	#6
jijioben Second Lieutenant 17 Rep 242 Posts Drives: 2011 F25 X3 35i Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Canada iTrader: (0)	I find that even the smoothest turbo will make itself felt, thus changing the driving characteristics of a normally aspirated engine. That said, the X3's turbo is excellent and I like the airplane-like acceleration it brings to the car.
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03-28-2011, 02:02 PM	#7
Beyu Lieutenant 13 Rep 579 Posts Drives: 135i Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: WA iTrader: (0)	Quite a few people on here have been considering waiting until the new turbo 4 comes out like you've said. For the average person the new engine is more than adequate for them but as Bekind has mentioned the current inline 6 is tried and true while the turbo 4 is not. While I'm not sure if all turbos use a HPFP I know the N54 and now the N55 (X3 35i) both have problems. While the problem had supposedly been fixed years ago and is not suppose to be an issue with the N55, BMW has at the same time extended the HPFP warranty to 10 years or 100k miles. Cars with turbos also always have to spool up before the power kicks in, some engines just happen to have faster spool times or have a less noticeable lag.
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03-28-2011, 02:12 PM	#8
Want the thrill Lieutenant Colonel 330 Rep 1,560 Posts Drives: 2022 X4M40i, retired ‘11 X3 Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: MI iTrader: (2) Garage List 2022 X4M40i [10.00]	Well none of this make me smile. I was planning on keeping the vehicle for 8-10 years being that I only put on about 10,000 miles or less a year.
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03-28-2011, 02:35 PM	#9
bekind Private 2 Rep 86 Posts Drives: x3 35i Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: ohio iTrader: (0)	Concerning the HPFP issues, for some reason I thought that was more associated with the direct injection turbos compared to regular injection turbos. I left this out initially becasue I wasn't sure if the new i4 turbo will be direct injection or not. If it is then the HPFP issues is also a real concern.
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03-28-2011, 02:50 PM	#11
lateshow Private First Class 27 Rep 138 Posts Drives: 2011 BMW X3 35i Space Gray Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Chicago, IL iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 BMW X3 [0.00]	Although a much different engine and car, I am trading in my 2009 Acura RDX with a turbo 4 cylinder for the 35i. Although the Acura is quick and a well engineered car, I found the engine to be a little "buzy" at times. I tend to drive my cars with a purpose and I always felt that the Acura was working pretty hard to perform. The V6 in the BMW doesn't need to work as hard to get better results.
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03-28-2011, 04:04 PM	#13
Beyu Lieutenant 13 Rep 579 Posts Drives: 135i Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: WA iTrader: (0)	It shouldn't be too bad, I've heard that after 8-10k miles if your HPFP doesn't show signs of failing it's very unlikely that anything will go wrong with it. Even then if the pump fails there's still a 10 year warranty, it's definitely a hassle to take the car to the dealership to get it fixed but at least it's nothing that you have to pay out of pocket.
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03-28-2011, 05:07 PM	#15
Batman2000 Enlisted Member 0 Rep 32 Posts Drives: E53 X5/F25 X3 Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Panama iTrader: (0)	The power issue is of concern to some, but not for all... In my case, I live in a city with traffic jams all day long. I drive my car over 100k/h for very small distances, usually from home to work and back (not more than 10 minutes). I was tempted to wait for the 3.5i (not yet available here) but the extra price (here) was not worth it, it was going to be money spent in something I wasn't going to use that much: extra power. I also love the fact that the engine is an ages-tested model. Over here they don´t give you the extra warranty over the turbo, so it could become a nightmare if it gives problems.
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03-28-2011, 07:28 PM	#16
midlifecrisis Major 804 Rep 1,208 Posts Drives: 2017 X5 35d, 2019 230i X Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: New Jersey iTrader: (0)	I've had several discussions with people on this subject. It depends who you talk to, but most people believe that a NA engine will be more durable because it has fewer moving parts and isn't as "stressed". Having said that, I have friends who've had dead-reliable turbo cars for 20 years with zero engine problems. (Saabs.) I had a '85 Dodge Lancer ES and I was on my third turbo when I sold the thing with 58,000 miles on it, so I'm less inclined to buy a turbo. I'm happy to have the last of the NA M3's and a NA 6 cylinder X3. Although none of us have driven the new turbo 4, it would be hard to beat the current 6 for smoothness. I love straight sixes! __________________ 2017 X5 35d (Performance Center delivery March 2017) 2019 230i X-drive 2022 M3 base 2000 328i sedan (UUC suspension - still the favorite), 2006 M3 slick top - Alpine White/Cinnamon SOLD! 2008 E90 M3 SOLD! 1991 325iX (both great), 2019 Miata RF - various others not as memorable but gone.
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03-29-2011, 04:55 PM	#18
pokerface Colonel 430 Rep 2,524 Posts Drives: F25 X3 N20 / F80 ZCP Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Toronto iTrader: (1)	I have a 6cyl 325i and an A4 2.0T in the stable. The 2.0 feels more peppy, there's more torque, but it's pretty buzzy (I guess all four cylinders are). The 325's inline 6 is a bit lazier but I do like the power delivery a lot more.
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