[Rupes]

BMW has had some version of the kidney grill as two separate pieces since 1933. Despite numerous changes to vehicles since then: the addition of airbags, antilock breaks, hydraulic steering, SUV's to the lineup, FWD Active Tourers, etc, this has been a constant. No more, we now we have morphed the grill into a single unit (that resembles Kia, as others have said), and somehow, people claim this simply is innovation. As a self proclaimed "purist" I think a design element that has existed for more than 80 years should remain. Come on BMW, you're better than this!!!

[dsocold]

the sad truth is bmw is breaking sales records left and right but theyre designs are trash and as much as this hurts to say (im a bmw fanboy since the begining of time) Audi and Mercedes are way ahead in design besides a select few cars imo. (x5m , m5, m3, m4, m2)

[Teutonic]

Originally Posted by jmg

Meh. Things evolve. If I want a classic BMW I'll buy one on autotrader. New cars will be compared to new cars. AFAIC BMW needs to evolve much like everyone else. The new M5 is a step in the right direction. The M2 CS is what the M2 should have been. We'll see what the new M3 will be, and as long as the ix3 retains the i3 spirit with improvements in battery range, I'm in.

I think that you missed the point: we are talking in here about the grill not about performance.

"New cars will be compared with new cars"? In what terms? Design? Like they should be the same or what? What grill design has to do with the technical aspect?

Yes, the new M5 is in the right direction, has proper kidney grills and is perfect engineered; so is the M2. And they are not electric! Excellent cars!

Here we are talking about design. For majority of people a car is an emotional choice and for many the car represents an extension of the personality, same as the clothing choice does. And I will not pick a car based on performance solely, doesn't matter how smart or performant is. I need to like it, have feelings about it, love it. Our daily interactions are all made more enjoyable by the appeal of the aesthetic surrounding them.

Also, in a luxury vehicle, there is a statement and buyers expect some attributes that are coming with that, nobody will pay premium for a car that looks like another ordinary one.

[raysspl]

[rolltidef32]

Originally Posted by Tracus

I think that you missed the point: we are talking in here about the grill not about performance.

"New cars will be compared with new cars"? In what terms? Design? Like they should be the same or what? What grill design has to do with the technical aspect?

Yes, the new M5 is in the right direction, has proper kidney grills and is perfect engineered; so is the M2. And they are not electric! Excellent cars!

Here we are talking about design. For majority of people a car is an emotional choice and for many the car represents an extension of the personality, same as the clothing choice does. And I will not pick a car based on performance solely, doesn't matter how smart or performant is. I need to like it, have feelings about it, love it. Our daily interactions are all made more enjoyable by the appeal of the aesthetic surrounding them.

Also, in a luxury vehicle, there is a statement and buyers expect some attributes that are coming with that, nobody will pay premium for a car that looks like another ordinary one.

Yeah, that all sounds great, but I think you may have also missed "his" point. I took what he wrote to mean the connection between BMW heritage and performance.

I'm sorry man, but not sure how long you've driven this marq, but true BMW owners have always been about the synergy between the style and performance of the car.

Only the more recent poseurs attempt to drive a BMW just for the looks. This company has a distinct heritage, as often found in a small family owned brand. That heritage involves certain types of drivers as well. You know, the ones you always thought were so cool, but arrogant, who embodied everything you wish you were, "if only you could ever earn enough money to drive a BMW....".

Truth is, the car didn't make those guys cool. Cool guys who were performance driving enthusiasts just always seemed to drive BMW. The lame asses wanting the looks usually drove the Benz.

And for the record, KIA has copied BMW grille design with minor adjustment, but yes, the kidneys should be separate.

[dreamspeed]

Not really kidneys anymore.

[drcheungkm]

Abit ugly！like the face of a Japanese ghost.
The classical twin kidney is fantastic!
The recent upgrade ones are acceptable.
The classic twin kidney grill likes the nose of a horse. The whole car looks like a real horse which well denoted by the Chinese name 寶馬 which means a precious horse.

[ZEEM3R]

Originally Posted by Qgarage

Looks like Kia's new corporate grill

Literally was the FIRST thing that came to my mind.

[cc3]

Oh dear another BMW design disaster

[ghaffari46]

Hey Bmw, you gave us i8.
You can do better than this!

[Teutonic]

Originally Posted by rolltidef32

Yeah, that all sounds great, but I think you may have also missed "his" point. I took what he wrote to mean the connection between BMW heritage and performance.

I'm sorry man, but not sure how long you've driven this marq, but true BMW owners have always been about the synergy between the style and performance of the car.

Only the more recent poseurs attempt to drive a BMW just for the looks. This company has a distinct heritage, as often found in a small family owned brand. That heritage involves certain types of drivers as well. You know, the ones you always thought were so cool, but arrogant, who embodied everything you wish you were, "if only you could ever earn enough money to drive a BMW....".

Truth is, the car didn't make those guys cool. Cool guys who were performance driving enthusiasts just always seemed to drive BMW. The lame asses wanting the looks usually drove the Benz.

And for the record, KIA has copied BMW grille design with minor adjustment, but yes, the kidneys should be separate.

I think that you took my last sentence and wrapped everything around that. While that was not the point, It was still important to mention.
We talk about THE GRILLE not about performance! The thread is about the grille.

All the personal input about posseurs, my history with the brand, etc., it is not only irrelevant but inappropriate and unnecessary. I also hope that your comment was a generic one...

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by Rupes

BMW has had some version of the kidney grill as two separate pieces since 1933. Despite numerous changes to vehicles since then: the addition of airbags, antilock breaks, hydraulic steering, SUV's to the lineup, FWD Active Tourers, etc, this has been a constant. No more, we now we have morphed the grill into a single unit (that resembles Kia, as others have said), and somehow, people claim this simply is innovation. As a self proclaimed "purist" I think a design element that has existed for more than 80 years should remain. Come on BMW, you're better than this!!!

Nope...

Reborn Form Language !

Electric Cars don't need grills.

And regardless life must go on !!!

[Frank Jia]

KIA badge

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by Frank Jia

KIA badge

Nope.

Maybe come up with some original to say.

Kia was not even born when BMW had attached Kidney Grills !

[AnthonyR]

So does this mean we get to pay Kia prices

[ron_jeremy]

The amount of feelings and ranting when trademark design elements are beeing evolved, it's impressive! The i series are kinda like the mini, allthough beeing a BMW, it's still a sidestep. Beeing electric makes for new design, it doesn't need cooling, things and proportions can be altered for the better. I think we shall judge the X3 EV when it is presented, with ice, it's a damn fine SUV. Beeing EV makes for some
Changes, Let's see how it turns out, should be intresting.

[rolltidef32]

Originally Posted by Tracus

I think that you took my last sentence and wrapped everything around that. While that was not the point, It was still important to mention.
We talk about THE GRILLE not about performance! The thread is about the grille.

All the personal input about posseurs, my history with the brand, etc., it is not only irrelevant but inappropriate and unnecessary. I also hope that your comment was a generic one...

I took that last part of your post and ran on it because I know you meant it. My response was general, but if it felt personal, it likely means you are part of that population.

Yes, the thread is about the grille; which is why I mentioned BMW heritage. On the forum, we often debate changes the company makes to heritage parts of the car. The i4 topic in the 3 series section has been classically debated since 2011 when announced.

However, jmg was making the point that BMW must evolve to remain relevant and that the style and performance are tied together in the identity of this brand.

For those of us who've owned or grew up in this brand; me, for over 40 years now, those who come to it only for the looks feels disrespectful because the company never used to chase after those customers until maybe the past decade. The practice makes money though and I guess also part of evolving.

The main point is that the poseurs were coming to BMW anyway in hopes to look like the stereotypical BMW driver they remember. I was only sharing the reasons why we drive BMW in the first place.

Don't get so defensive; you are free to drive what you want for whatever reason you want. However, this is a forum full of enthusiasts, so shallow comments can lead to you taking one on the chin every now and again.

If you're already an old school Bimmer guy; great! If you're new; welcome and now you know some new things about our brand.

[dsocold]

Well you see thats the problem. People are buying them because of that little emblem on the hood, Back in the late 90s Bmw's i felt were mostly driven by enthusiasts, and yes i know times are changing and electric vehicles are slowly but surely taking over as an alternative to ICE but look at Mercedes they dont need no **** electric vehicles yea they may have one or two ( i do not know of any) but they chose a direction that is 10x more enthusiast driven i mean look at all the special amg models and all the beautiful cars they got. Mercedes has taken the electric part of things and applied them to ICE vehicles to make them better where on the other hand bmw has made full on electric cars and taken the economy benefits and applied them to other models while there is nothing wrong with that its just it feels as if making amazing motorsport cars is not they're main intention anymore. Main topic of the thread was design and thats what i was mainly criticizing... Back in the day Bmw interiors felt like god damn airplane cockpits. Mercedes and audi couldnt touch em in my opinion, but there designs in and out now are just not cutting it and are starting to lack behind the competetion and yet they are still breaking sales records and doing great, atleast theyre chassis and components are exceptional but interior and exterior designs just need to go.

[CP911]

Kia did not copy BMW. They have had their own signature grille since back when they stole Audi's designer. My 2012 Optima had the same tiger nose grille. It's amazing that some of you are implying that Kia had a crystal ball back in 2010 that told them one day 8 years into the future, BMW was going to make this idiotic move and that is what would inspire their tiger nose design. Get real.

[ron_jeremy]

Originally Posted by dsocold

Well you see thats the problem. People are buying them because of that little emblem on the hood, Back in the late 90s Bmw's i felt were mostly driven by enthusiasts, and yes i know times are changing and electric vehicles are slowly but surely taking over as an alternative to ICE but look at Mercedes they dont need no **** electric vehicles yea they may have one or two ( i do not know of any) but they chose a direction that is 10x more enthusiast driven i mean look at all the special amg models and all the beautiful cars they got. Mercedes has taken the electric part of things and applied them to ICE vehicles to make them better where on the other hand bmw has made full on electric cars and taken the economy benefits and applied them to other models while there is nothing wrong with that its just it feels as if making amazing motorsport cars is not they're main intention anymore. Main topic of the thread was design and thats what i was mainly criticizing... Back in the day Bmw interiors felt like god damn airplane cockpits. Mercedes and audi couldnt touch em in my opinion, but there designs in and out now are just not cutting it and are starting to lack behind the competetion and yet they are still breaking sales records and doing great, atleast theyre chassis and components are exceptional but interior and exterior designs just need to go.

Have you paid any attention to what MB are putting billions of € into? It is not ice...
Have you seen the interiour of the G10, G30 or G01?
I agree the era of E39 and E46 was excellent, but there is no going back. BMW are in a good postion to look ahead to the future, and a lot of the EV future (infrastructure) is made with MB.

[Rupes]

Originally Posted by ORIGIN M.

Nope...

Reborn Form Language !

Electric Cars don't need grills.

And regardless life must go on !!!

When you say Nope, do you actually mean yes?

All 10 of the pictures you posted show a divided kidney grill. At no point does the left half of the kidney flow into the right half.

I can't help but feel pedantic at this point - but I'm not sure what you gain by saying "nope" to people who claim this looks like a Kia grill, or to me for (accurately) pointing out this is a new design element that is not mandated by safety standards / performance needs. It's nothing more than a departure from tradition for the sake of following the market. To each his own, I suppose!

[fxoffroad]

IMO... this thread is comical.

There's no way BMW is going to change its signature design language. One need only look at the i8 to know that.