[dhurng]

Originally Posted by sayemthree

Wow. How embarrassing for Porsche and Porsche owners. I wonder what excuses they are making up on the Mecan forum

Honestly, I'm not sure if we can look at it like that though.

At the end of the day the Macan has been overdue for a new generation, top down upgrade. I believe it has been the same chassis since 2015. And looking at this particular macan, it isn't even the refreshed one. So not sure if that is fair to say its an embarrassment, wouldn't you agree?

and no I don't own a Macan lol

[sayemthree]

Originally Posted by dhurng

Honestly, I'm not sure if we can look at it like that though.

At the end of the day the Macan has been overdue for a new generation, top down upgrade. I believe it has been the same chassis since 2015. And looking at this particular macan, it isn't even the refreshed one. So not sure if that is fair to say its an embarrassment, wouldn't you agree?

and no I don't own a Macan lol

Add in the high price fir a Turbo and yes it’s and embarrassment for the marque

[dhurng]

Originally Posted by sayemthree

Add in the high price fir a Turbo and yes it’s and embarrassment for the marque

I see where you are going but again it is relative to the model of the car to date right?

For instance at best this is a 2018 Macan Turbo (base) prior to refresh: $78k

vs

2020 at earliest X3M (base): $76k

I'm simply attempting to vindicate other's minds with factfulness

[forza1976]

Nobody buys the base model Macan Turbo. Fair comparison on the first model for each and their pricing. I have to believe that most folks spend north of the current base price of $84600 for the Macan Turbo.

[MRichmond]

Porsche base pricing is irrelevant. Unless you don't want doors with your car. Oh you want a steering wheel? That's on page 27 of the options list.

Kidding aside, Porsche upgraded the current Macan Turbo model only a few months ago, and chose to bump the power to only 434 hp. That simply is way behind all of its competition. And even without dipping into the rabbit hole of Porsche leather, color and other options beyond those to make it comparable to how most equip an X3M (or, in my case, the Jag F-Pace SVR), the MSRP on the Macan is over $100,000. Having driven all of these, the price difference is attributable to nothing more than the name plate.

[dhurng]

Originally Posted by MRichmond

Porsche base pricing is irrelevant. Unless you don't want doors with your car. Oh you want a steering wheel? That's on page 27 of the options list.

Kidding aside, Porsche upgraded the current Macan Turbo model only a few months ago, and chose to bump the power to only 434 hp. That simply is way behind all of its competition. And even without dipping into the rabbit hole of Porsche leather, color and other options beyond those to make it comparable to how most equip an X3M (or, in my case, the Jag F-Pace SVR), the MSRP on the Macan is over $100,000. Having driven all of these, the price difference is attributable to nothing more than the name plate.

Oh i was not aware of the recent upgrade, thanks for sharing that.

In terms of the base price of the 2020 macan turbo, I don't think its >= 100k, it seems to be priced around $83k here in the bay/states.

But besides the point, I do agree, number wise it isn't very impressive compared to the competition. I was just defending the idea of calling it an embarrassment. Coming from both bmw and porsche I am objective here.

[forza1976]

Originally Posted by dhurng

Oh i was not aware of the recent upgrade, thanks for sharing that.

In terms of the base price of the 2020 macan turbo, I don't think its >= 100k, it seems to be priced around $83k here in the bay/states.

But besides the point, I do agree, number wise it isn't very impressive compared to the competition. I was just defending the idea of calling it an embarrassment. Coming from both bmw and porsche I am objective here.

I just said it 3 posts above . Direct from porsche.com/usa

$84,600 base for a Turbo Macan

[dhurng]

Originally Posted by forza1976

I just said it 3 posts above . Direct from porsche.com/usa

$84,600 base for a Turbo Macan

haha no you're right, there are multiple points here.

For your post I was comparing the base price of a macan turbo in the 2018 gen as that's the closest to the one in the video. (price to date)

Meanwhile the second point is regards to the 2020 where you pulled the information from :]

[forza1976]

Originally Posted by dhurng

haha no you're right, there are multiple points here.

For your post I was comparing the base price of a macan turbo in the 2018 gen as that's the closest to the one in the video. (price to date)

Meanwhile the second point is regards to the 2020 where you pulled the information from :]

I know, and I acknowledged your first comparison on initial base price for both models.

I think we all agree the base price is "similar" for both models, regardless of year. Give or take some $'s.

I have to bet that high 90%'s of Macan buyers spend 90k+. When I look at all the new inventory on cars.com, there are only 2 or 3 that are below 90k. The rest head towards 100k pretty quick.

[sayemthree]

I think the point is most turbos are going to be 90 to 100k with any options. before my x3mc I was shopping for a nice used low mile GTS with a few options and they would have cost me more than my x3

[robopp]

Macan PDK is infinitely better than the X3M ZF8 and pretty much any auto on the market. Motor wise the BMW shines though.

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by robopp

Macan PDK is infinitely better than the X3M ZF8 and pretty much any auto on the market. Motor wise the BMW shines though.

Disagree. ZF8 is currently the benchmark in terms of speed and performance. It may not feel as spectacular and exciting as PDK but it’s extremely well performing. It’s one of the main reasons why both X3M and M5 outperform the competition.

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

Disagree. ZF8 is currently the benchmark in terms of speed and performance. It may not feel as spectacular and exciting as PDK but it's extremely well performing. It's one of the main reasons why both X3M and M5 outperform the competition.

You disagree that the PDK is "infinitely better" or that it's "better" to any degree? If the former, then I agree with you bc the ZF8 on the X3M/M5 is pretty damn good and close to the PDK, but if you are claiming that the ZF8 is better overall than the PDK (which I will assume you aren't going as far as saying that), then I think you would likely be the only person on the planet that believes this.

The PDK is damn near telepathetic and just objectively faster at shifting and selecting the right gear than the ZF8.

One good example is if you floor it on our cars while cruising the ZF8 will go down to a certain gear initially before giving you the ideal gear after that first shift. The PDK will immediately put you in the right gear in the right power band without doing an initial downshift.

You ask anybody who has had a PDK (or even an M DCT) on the M5 forum or here, and I am confident the vast majority would unequivocally say the car would be better to drive spiritedly with the PDK (or even the M DCT). Though for daily driving the ZF8 is sufficient.

That doesn't mean that the ZF8 is garbage or isn't good enough, because if the PDK is a 99/100 and the MDCT is a 95/100, then the ZF8 on these M cars is a 90/100. You cannot overstate how different a torque converter impacts the overall experience of a good auto transmission.

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by robopp

Macan PDK is infinitely better than the X3M ZF8 and pretty much any auto on the market. Motor wise the BMW shines though.

Here is a good read about the ZF8. There is a reason why BMW and others have started putting it even in their highest performance cars.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...f-eight-speed/

[MRichmond]

Originally Posted by Thescout13

You disagree that the PDK is "infinitely better" or that it's "better" to any degree? If the former, then I agree with you bc the ZF8 on the X3M/M5 is pretty damn good and close to the PDK, but if you are claiming that the ZF8 is better overall than the PDK (which I will assume you aren't going as far as saying that), then I think you would likely be the only person on the planet that believes this.

The PDK is damn near telepathetic and just objectively faster at shifting and selecting the right gear than the ZF8.

One good example is if you floor it on our cars while cruising the ZF8 will go down to a certain gear initially before giving you the ideal gear after that first shift. The PDK will immediately put you in the right gear in the right power band without doing an initial downshift.

You ask anybody who has had a PDK (or even an M DCT) on the M5 forum or here, and I am confident the vast majority would unequivocally say the car would be better to drive spiritedly with the PDK (or even the M DCT). Though for daily driving the ZF8 is sufficient.

That doesn't mean that the ZF8 is garbage or isn't good enough, because if the PDK is a 99/100 and the MDCT is a 95/100, then the ZF8 on these M cars is a 90/100. You cannot overstate how different a torque converter impacts the overall experience of a good auto transmission.

This is an accurate assessment. I have driven a GT3 with PDK on track and it is simply stellar.

[car_fan]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

PBIR drag strip. Tuned X3MC faces a stock Macan Turbo. Yes, you should be able to predict the outcome...

The video features a Tuned “X3M” not a Competition model.

[sayemthree]

Originally Posted by car_fan

The video features a Tuned “X3M” not a Competition model.

U are correct

[sayemthree]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

Here is a good read about the ZF8. There is a reason why BMW and others have started putting it even in their highest performance cars.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...f-eight-speed/

Very good read thanks .

[DS_BMW]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

Here is a good read about the ZF8. There is a reason why BMW and others have started putting it even in their highest performance cars.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...f-eight-speed/

It's more cost effective.

[RR-NYC]

Originally Posted by Thescout13

You disagree that the PDK is "infinitely better" or that it's "better" to any degree? If the former, then I agree with you bc the ZF8 on the X3M/M5 is pretty damn good and close to the PDK, but if you are claiming that the ZF8 is better overall than the PDK (which I will assume you aren't going as far as saying that), then I think you would likely be the only person on the planet that believes this.

The PDK is damn near telepathetic and just objectively faster at shifting and selecting the right gear than the ZF8.

One good example is if you floor it on our cars while cruising the ZF8 will go down to a certain gear initially before giving you the ideal gear after that first shift. The PDK will immediately put you in the right gear in the right power band without doing an initial downshift.

You ask anybody who has had a PDK (or even an M DCT) on the M5 forum or here, and I am confident the vast majority would unequivocally say the car would be better to drive spiritedly with the PDK (or even the M DCT). Though for daily driving the ZF8 is sufficient.

That doesn't mean that the ZF8 is garbage or isn't good enough, because if the PDK is a 99/100 and the MDCT is a 95/100, then the ZF8 on these M cars is a 90/100. You cannot overstate how different a torque converter impacts the overall experience of a good auto transmission.

Exactly

[Alpine300zhp]

Originally Posted by Transfer

Lol Macan is laughably slow for the price. How does it not have 500+ HP in turbo trim?!

Yep. This is true for the Cayenne and the Panny as well.

[White340]

I can't figure out why but I can't stand the vehicle virgins journalist.