07-31-2019, 08:15 AM | #89 | ||
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If the data says that's what the populace wants, then it is a market worth pursuing. The situation is no different from a four-door coupe version of a passenger car.
It is not typically a successful business strategy to notice that a new idea (be it your own or a competitor's) is bringing in new customers, shake your head at the new and peculiar buyer behavior at play, and then decide to opt out of this new market that has opened up because it does not align with some contrived and arbitrary dogmatic principle. Quote:
Although there is no data available, I would suggest that the adoption of even-numbering for coupes/convertibles/Gran Coupes and the M Performance branding has not hurt revenue. In fact, the latter in particular is almost surely generating more revenue than would be otherwise available. We know that the M name brings clout and luxury vehicle buyers tend to place a lot of value on brand, thereby opening up opportunity for higher pricing. In any case, certainly spending money (it would be a significant amount) to roll things back would be a mistake at this stage. Regarding model reduction, once we rid the lineup of the GT's, minivans, and other oddities that didn't catch on, coupes and convertible are obvious low hanging fruit, no doubt to the dismay of enthusiasts. The good news? It turns out you can make a passenger car with four doors perform identically to one with two doors in the case where they sit on the same architecture, have the same dimensions, and share chassis components. The thing is that the SUV form factor is the new default choice for the typical buyer, so you no longer need to take the rear doors off a sedan to make a statement with your passenger car. Merely driving a passenger car *period* is the new way to make a statement, like it or not. And so, the demand to have those rear doors nixed is slowly fading. Quote:
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07-31-2019, 08:44 AM | #90 | |
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And how many shoe versions does the 911 have? Regular, 4WD, S version, 4WD S version, Targa, Targa 4WD, Vert (4WD/S versions), GTS (multiple versions), Carrera T, Turbo (S and verts), GT3 (touring trim I guess), GT3RS, GT2RS. You can have your 911 any way you want it. At least now they all use the same base wide body shell so makes them more similar and easier to produce.
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07-31-2019, 08:52 AM | #91 | |
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That said, yes, Porsche's biggest sellers are SUVs just as they are for everyone else. However, that doesn't mean their sports car business isn't doing well. Those are still highly profitable due in no small part to huge margins. (BTW, a 911 is a 2+2 except GT models which have the rear seats removed, but I knew what you meant.) |
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07-31-2019, 08:59 AM | #92 | |
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THIS!!!!!!!!!
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07-31-2019, 09:24 AM | #93 |
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Some posters in this forum are thinking like enthusiasts and that thinking is does not always translate to the real world.
Comparing Porsche to BMW isn't a true apples/apples comparison. Porsche with their two-seaters is a niche vehicle/brand. They have only become more popular because of the Cayenne and even more so with the Macan. It was only a couple of years ago that 70% of Porsche sales worldwide was from SUVs. I'm pretty sure that stat has not deviated much today. I'm not saying that Porsche is dependent on their SUVs, but they play a significant role in Porsche's financial health and outlook. If you think the Boxster, Cayman and 911 are the reason why Porsche is where they are at in today's automotive landscape, you are mistaken. |
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07-31-2019, 09:25 AM | #94 | |
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07-31-2019, 09:27 AM | #95 |
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Interesting read here. I feel many of you are disconnected from the rest of the industry thinking BMW is all alone with these issues. World car sales are falling and the entire industry is nearing a major crisis as global demand for vehicles softens. Nissan is in critical condition as we speak. The domestics no longer make passenger cars for North America and are being sustained solely on pickup truck sales. Chryslers is hanging on by a thread and won't likely make another decade. BMW is actually in a pretty good place relative to a lot of other automakers and trimming down their lineup is the correct way to go forward with the automotive pie shrinking globally. The fact that Ferrari is making an SUV should be all you need to know about where the industry is heading as it's all about long term sustainability right now.
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07-31-2019, 09:31 AM | #96 | |
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Renaming products might not reduce costs but it will simplify their lineup. Mercedes used to have different models (E/CLK, S/CL, GLK, ML) but now it’s all same. Audi still keeps it separate but that’s another story! I totally get why M Performance is a thing because more M models means more sales of higher end models (not full M cars but right underneath). It is easy to make more models based on the same platform with minimal risk/low cost so I get why BMW does this. I still would like the lineup trimmed down regardless of sales and ease of building off a platform. ![]() |
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07-31-2019, 09:49 AM | #97 |
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8 series?
That's bad. Why even bring it. I bet many people will not even buy it now. ![]()
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07-31-2019, 09:59 AM | #98 |
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Bet they wouldn't have to kill the z4 off if they stuck with the concept in the first place 🙄
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07-31-2019, 10:00 AM | #99 | ||
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07-31-2019, 10:34 AM | #100 | ||
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Still Porsche will not kill off their sports cars. ![]()
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07-31-2019, 10:38 AM | #101 | |
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GC is here to say, just bummed that the 8 coupe/convertible will die out. I’m surprised they will kill the Z4 considering it just came out and it’s a big collaboration with Toyota! I’d imagine GC models would take over, provided the price is right and people get over the 2+2 configuration. |
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07-31-2019, 10:59 AM | #102 | |
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I don't think so. |
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07-31-2019, 11:08 AM | #103 |
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So they kill off cars based on poor margins, but keep a shitty 6 series GT because the boss likes it. Well that figures. I guess financial decisions are not always driven by cold hard facts.
BMW needs to sort out the styling, narrow down the range, and make options less pricey (so people would order more and pay more). They have a bizarre and bloated line up now, and a very questionable car naming as well. Still all they can do is make bigger kidney grilles. On a second note - I guess buying a brand new low spec 3 series means you're not getting owned by the manufacturer. yey. just take the depreciation in stride. I always felt that bare bones BMWs are the best bang for the buck.
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07-31-2019, 11:12 AM | #104 | |
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It's just that the 2 door coupes are on an industry decline and the 8 also is a gas hog. too bad, it's BMWs best car IMO. |
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07-31-2019, 11:15 AM | #105 | |
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Also this is just rumors not confirmed. I think they should make a new light weight Z4 hybrid Caterham style competitor to keep it alive and help emissions. There's a way forward for it still just during the upcoming EV transition |
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07-31-2019, 11:51 AM | #106 | |
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Porche Engineering Group (PEG), Porsche made its wide-ranging expertise in the development and production of vehicles available to clients from a variety of industries. PEG was considered Porsche's "secret weapon, enabling it to employ more engineers than if it worked alone, giving it an edge in product development. The ability to scale and create synergies across a number of areas were two driving forces that led Porsche to secure its partnership with VW. As Wiedeking explained, electronics was one area of particular interest: "Electronics account for 30% to 35% of our development costs. Spreading this investment over 2 million cars instead of Porsche's 100,000 will make a big difference and the components will be cheaper." Furthermore, the capital intensity of R&D and required fixed assets in new technologies would be increasing, making it increasingly difficult for a premium-only OEM to survive unless operating in the context of a larger OEM. Check out the entire article below... https://mitsloan.mit.edu/LearningEdg...g-Porsche.aspx
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07-31-2019, 11:54 AM | #107 |
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Yeah I feel the 8 is a fantastic car that unfortunately is a victim of circumstance with the industry shifting away from cars in general.
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07-31-2019, 11:55 AM | #108 |
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man, I so love Georg Hacker as a journalist. absolutely gobs of information in this article.
I'm hanging onto my 440xi GC for 8 years until I'll be in the market for a new car (once the kids get out of college), and I've always known my next car will be a pure EV. gonna be interesting to see how EV development plays out for BMW. Once I get that EV, I plan to garage my 440 in a barn and take my grandkids out hooning in it ala Red Barchetta by Rush while the air-car cops give chase. ![]()
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07-31-2019, 11:59 AM | #109 | |
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07-31-2019, 12:25 PM | #110 |
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yup, but Porsche made those Audi platform "better" (for us at least, pretty sure some Audi customer will find it too hard)
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