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      07-28-2018, 07:24 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by Yobyot View Post
I think I've discovered why I got 15% off MSRP on my MY19 M40i. And it's not due to my negotiating skills.

Suppose you're a BMW dealer and you want upcoming model year cars to be more competitive in your market. You might triage allocation slots by letting them go into production in the near future against selling them to a customer. Worst case, you configure the build with what you expect to sell long before it goes 150, take the car into inventory and pay floor plan on it.

Best case, you get someone like me before it's too late to change the build who wants a custom build. You can save on floor plan and book the sale months earlier. That might help with future allocation and also makes the month it was sold in better than it would have otherwise been.

That's one possible explanation for what we see here. My car was ordered by the dealer on July 4 -- two weeks before I bought it on July 22. This squares with my surprise on that Sunday, when I was shopping by phone, this dealer responded to my spreadsheet build with a vehicle inquiry report that was already 112. Other dealers had input the build I asked for bids on, but none were at 112. See the attached image, which is what the salesperson gave me today when I asked for confirmation of a week 33 build. The dealer let this allocation go to 112 three days before I bought it.

What this means is that the dealers have more information about supply and demand than we do. (Surprise!) And they'll use it anyway they can. In this case, to minimize finance charges for a vehicle, make their monthly BMW-assigned quota (note the "quota" field on the report) and/or get an incremental sale from a custom build.

It can also explain why I (and the woman who likes to play games) got such "great" deals while other dealers, who might be happier to take inventory onto their books, aren't offering as much discount.

My takeaway from this: ask the dealer to input the build, give you the output and if it's 112, bargain harder than ever.
Did you build this car or did the dealer? Is it weird an order was placed on July 4th? Who is open that day? Also, what is the 2018/8/33 date??
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      07-28-2018, 07:43 PM   #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yobyot View Post
I think I've discovered why I got 15% off MSRP on my MY19 M40i. And it's not due to my negotiating skills.

Suppose you're a BMW dealer and you want upcoming model year cars to be more competitive in your market. You might triage allocation slots by letting them go into production in the near future against selling them to a customer. Worst case, you configure the build with what you expect to sell long before it goes 150, take the car into inventory and pay floor plan on it.

Best case, you get someone like me before it's too late to change the build who wants a custom build. You can save on floor plan and book the sale months earlier. That might help with future allocation and also makes the month it was sold in better than it would have otherwise been.

That's one possible explanation for what we see here. My car was ordered by the dealer on July 4 -- two weeks before I bought it on July 22. This squares with my surprise on that Sunday, when I was shopping by phone, this dealer responded to my spreadsheet build with a vehicle inquiry report that was already 112. Other dealers had input the build I asked for bids on, but none were at 112. See the attached image, which is what the salesperson gave me today when I asked for confirmation of a week 33 build. The dealer let this allocation go to 112 three days before I bought it.

What this means is that the dealers have more information about supply and demand than we do. (Surprise!) And they'll use it anyway they can. In this case, to minimize finance charges for a vehicle, make their monthly BMW-assigned quota (note the "quota" field on the report) and/or get an incremental sale from a custom build.

It can also explain why I (and the woman who likes to play games) got such "great" deals while other dealers, who might be happier to take inventory onto their books, aren't offering as much discount.

My takeaway from this: ask the dealer to input the build, give you the output and if it's 112, bargain harder than ever.

I think you might be reading too much into it but I can only theorize as well. I do know that allocations were released to dealers on 7/6 and the slots were for production starting at the end of July into August. Any status changes before 7/6 would be something that happened during the allocation rollout.

Most dealers will use all of their allocations on a hot seller like the X3, so it's not like they are sitting on them. The dealer probably had already put in all his allocations and just converted one to your specs and changed it to priority 1 / customer sold. They would certainly be motivated to give a deal on an order since it costs them less than putting the car into inventory, and I can't think of any other reasons it would be different this time. That's how things worked when I ordered a Z4 many years ago.

I put my M40i order in on 7/10 and was the first 2019 order the dealership put in. The vehicle was 112 right away -- guy mentioned that it was assigned a production number when he sent me the inquiry report with my specs before I even gave him the go ahead (we were still talking price and trade-in value at that point). From that I am concluding that any allocation would go to 112 whether it's for a customer or not. The only difference I have heard is that priority 1 orders may get sorted up ahead in the queue.

Last year when I ordered a 4-series coupe, the order went to 111 because the dealer had no allocations for that model. And he wasn't going to be able to get an allocation for weeks. I was about to back out, but he offered me an insane deal so he wouldn't lose the sale. Being in 111 seemed like it gave me more of an advantage than if it had been 112. I had to wait an extra 3 weeks longer than I hoped, but the extra discount made it worth my while.

Bottom line, I don't know how it's working with 2019 X3 orders right now, but based on my experience and what others have reported, it seems normal for these orders to go into 112 right away if there is an allocation. Those of us who got orders in soon after 7/6 seem to have been queued into week 31 (completion) with production getting starting in the past few days (week 30).
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      07-28-2018, 07:46 PM   #179
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I can barely contain my excitement! I just want the car already! Almost time to mark another X on my calendar!
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      07-28-2018, 07:47 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by Tradecraft View Post
Did you build this car or did the dealer? Is it weird an order was placed on July 4th? Who is open that day? Also, what is the 2018/8/33 date??
Yeah, the dealer wouldn't have gotten their allocation yet on 7/4, so that activity is something that happened earlier in the process.

2018/8/33 means August 2018 and week 33.

Last edited by skier219; 07-28-2018 at 07:54 PM..
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      07-28-2018, 07:52 PM   #181
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2018/8/33 means August 2018 and week 33.
Thanks, makes sense. I've read the order tracking threads, but since you can track production in MyGarage on BMW's website, is there any benefit to the other tracking methods listed? Mine just says production scheduled. Before it said that, I had called and got a week #. Is there any way to see if that week # has changed other than calling?
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      07-28-2018, 07:56 PM   #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thebecky View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonymac1 View Post
how are you getting so much discount off msrp.. i'm only getting about 6% in my area.
I go back and forth between several dealerships, always hoping to purchase from my favorite (best sales and service customer service), but willing to buy elsewhere if the deal is better.
Mention what you have seen others getting in forums, tell them you have a need to get the best deal.
Take your time. We used to lease, and I find the deals usually better when trading in. Especially if they know you will not buy another brand. Make sure you tell them you are also checking out the sq5 and your husband/wife really wants the Mercedes.
I use my husband as the bad guy if I have to. Example: I really want this car, but my husband doesn’t like it, thinks it’s way too expensive so I need an amazing deal or he won’t agree. My husband wants to buy from other dealership, but I prefer yours. I need a special deal to convince him...
At the end, before you agree to the already amazing deal, go into showroom, tell salesperson “ ok, I will sign right now if they can find another $200/$500... If they say no, and you are satisfied with the deal, tell them “ok, but add all weather mats, or some other small dealer added thing you may want.
I love this stuff!
Thanks for the info! Am I still able to negotiate the price when I take delivery? All I asked and the dealer's quotes were by emails for now, haven't signed anything yet. Only paid a deposit for it and the order is currently 112.
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      07-28-2018, 09:34 PM   #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonymac1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thebecky View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonymac1 View Post
how are you getting so much discount off msrp.. i'm only getting about 6% in my area.
I go back and forth between several dealerships, always hoping to purchase from my favorite (best sales and service customer service), but willing to buy elsewhere if the deal is better.
Mention what you have seen others getting in forums, tell them you have a need to get the best deal.
Take your time. We used to lease, and I find the deals usually better when trading in. Especially if they know you will not buy another brand. Make sure you tell them you are also checking out the sq5 and your husband/wife really wants the Mercedes.
I use my husband as the bad guy if I have to. Example: I really want this car, but my husband doesn't like it, thinks it's way too expensive so I need an amazing deal or he won't agree. My husband wants to buy from other dealership, but I prefer yours. I need a special deal to convince him...
At the end, before you agree to the already amazing deal, go into showroom, tell salesperson " ok, I will sign right now if they can find another $200/$500... If they say no, and you are satisfied with the deal, tell them "ok, but add all weather mats, or some other small dealer added thing you may want.
I love this stuff!
Thanks for the info! Am I still able to negotiate the price when I take delivery? All I asked and the dealer's quotes were by emails for now, haven't signed anything yet. Only paid a deposit for it and the order is currently 112.
I would think that would be in bad faith, no? I mean anything is possible, but that's kind of messed up.
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      07-29-2018, 07:47 AM   #184
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Buy vs lease

Iíd appreciate feedback on buy vs lease and experiences, good and bad, with BMW leasing. Iíve always purchased but am considering a lease for the first time. Thanks!
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      07-29-2018, 08:19 AM   #185
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[QUOTE=pcmike;23515255]Just don't let the interest erode away your finance incentive. Nice deal either way. [/QUOTE

Planning to pay off in a couple months!
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      07-29-2018, 08:20 AM   #186
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Iíd appreciate feedback on buy vs lease and experiences, good and bad, with BMW leasing. Iíve always purchased but am considering a lease for the first time. Thanks!
So to truly answer that question you need to have a deep understanding of the finance and lease process and run some math. Years ago when I did my first lease, I came to the realization that leases are a lot more complicated in terms of getting to the bottom line truth. There are a lot more things that go into it.

I spent a couple days coming up with a spreadsheet so that I could evaluate the pros/cons of a lease versus financing, and also double check the dealer's numbers. There are a lot of places they can pull the wool over your eyes with a lease and unless you can run independent computations you'll never know.

BTW, that first time, I went with a lease because it was a better deal than financing. The next car I bought, financing was a better option.

Since that time I have changed to become a cash buyer, so I haven't done the lease versus finance comparison for a long time, maybe since 2005. I don't think it's gotten any simpler since then.
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      07-29-2018, 08:26 AM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yobyot View Post
I think I've discovered why I got 15% off MSRP on my MY19 M40i. And it's not due to my negotiating skills.

Suppose you're a BMW dealer and you want upcoming model year cars to be more competitive in your market. You might triage allocation slots by letting them go into production in the near future against selling them to a customer. Worst case, you configure the build with what you expect to sell long before it goes 150, take the car into inventory and pay floor plan on it.

Best case, you get someone like me before it's too late to change the build who wants a custom build. You can save on floor plan and book the sale months earlier. That might help with future allocation and also makes the month it was sold in better than it would have otherwise been.

That's one possible explanation for what we see here. My car was ordered by the dealer on July 4 -- two weeks before I bought it on July 22. This squares with my surprise on that Sunday, when I was shopping by phone, this dealer responded to my spreadsheet build with a vehicle inquiry report that was already 112. Other dealers had input the build I asked for bids on, but none were at 112. See the attached image, which is what the salesperson gave me today when I asked for confirmation of a week 33 build. The dealer let this allocation go to 112 three days before I bought it.

What this means is that the dealers have more information about supply and demand than we do. (Surprise!) And they'll use it anyway they can. In this case, to minimize finance charges for a vehicle, make their monthly BMW-assigned quota (note the "quota" field on the report) and/or get an incremental sale from a custom build.

It can also explain why I (and the woman who likes to play games) got such "great" deals while other dealers, who might be happier to take inventory onto their books, aren't offering as much discount.

My takeaway from this: ask the dealer to input the build, give you the output and if it's 112, bargain harder than ever.
Good theory. This was not the case for me. We made our final choices of colors while sitting at the dealership. Our salesperson pulled up their dealer build list on a large second monitor. We saw ours added as we sat there. He showed us the ones that were builds for the dealership and explained that ours would be a first priority build and push one of theirs back in line , as customer builds always take priority.
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      07-29-2018, 08:37 AM   #188
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If you can do simple equations and know where to get the proper numbers you can calculate a lease very easily. In my opinion, a lease almost always makes sense on a high value vehicle (unless it's rare and will appreciate the moment you purchase it). Lot less financial exposure in a lease.

A lease is a great 3 year hedge against yourself (if you don't want to keep the car because your needs or wants have changed you can just walk away) and against the public (if you get in an accident you wouldn't want to keep the car... in a lease you can walk away and the bank eats the loss).
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      07-29-2018, 08:41 AM   #189
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I would think that would be in bad faith, no? I mean anything is possible, but that's kind of messed up.
Bad faith? Is it also bad faith for the dealers to not tell us exactly what they pay for the car? With holdbacks and dealer monies and incentives? They expect people to deal.
None of these things are lies. There have been cars that I wanted that my husband was not crazy about. I really needed a great deal for him fo acquiesce. He wants to buy from the dealership with the best deal, I want to buy from my favorite because, as a woman, they treat me with respect. ( this is not something I can say about a dealership closer to my house, where they felt the need to mansplain and speak to me in a condescending tone when I asked about the msport steering wheel on the 2019s)
I am very pleased, I was able to save a few extra thousand and get a car we will love!
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      07-29-2018, 08:44 AM   #190
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It's bad faith to negotiate a deal and have them order the car and then get to the finance office and try to renegotiate. Yes, that's 100% shady. Get your ducks in a row ahead of time.
Becky, this comment wasn't directed to you... it was to the guy who mentioned renegotiating his deal when the car arrives.

You wouldn't want the dealer to do that to you, don't do that to them.

By the way, you can calculate what they paid for the car very easily. Take 5% of the MSRP and subtract that from the invoice cost. That will give you a very accurate picture of what they "paid."
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      07-29-2018, 04:42 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by pcmike View Post
If you can do simple equations and know where to get the proper numbers you can calculate a lease very easily. In my opinion, a lease almost always makes sense on a high value vehicle (unless it's rare and will appreciate the moment you purchase it). Lot less financial exposure in a lease.

A lease is a great 3 year hedge against yourself (if you don't want to keep the car because your needs or wants have changed you can just walk away) and against the public (if you get in an accident you wouldn't want to keep the car... in a lease you can walk away and the bank eats the loss).
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcmike View Post
If you can do simple equations and know where to get the proper numbers you can calculate a lease very easily. In my opinion, a lease almost always makes sense on a high value vehicle (unless it's rare and will appreciate the moment you purchase it). Lot less financial exposure in a lease.

A lease is a great 3 year hedge against yourself (if you don't want to keep the car because your needs or wants have changed you can just walk away) and against the public (if you get in an accident you wouldn't want to keep the car... in a lease you can walk away and the bank eats the loss).
Purchase vs. lease is a religious argument.

I never lease or finance. I buy the cars for cash, own them for five years and sell them privately when replacing.

"Consumer Reports" once did a side by side comparison of leading, purchasing and financing.

Over 10 years, leading was the most expensive, followed by financing. Owning a car outright and driving it into the ground over a decade was least expensive, all costs considered including depreciation.

I abhor debt and dislike the fact that one pays interest on the "use" portion of a lease. That's what the "money factor" in a lease is: a finance charge. So you are leasing AND financing the lease.

Leasing is also a form of indentured servitude to dealers. The dealer focuses on the monthly payments, rolling all manner of pork into the lease while the buyer is just focused on that monthly number. When it comes time to return a leased vehicle, dealers offer to waive end of lease charges just to start another round of porked-up lease payments.

I realize leasing enables people to have cars they couldn't otherwise afford. But for me, it doesn't work.
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      07-29-2018, 04:48 PM   #192
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That's your viewpoint.

For some of us who only plan on keeping the car for three years anyhow, it's essentially an insurance policy with no real downside (except a mileage limit). Chances of selling the car privately and making a profit are slim to none... so why would I commit $70k on a depreciating asset?

Also, anyone that knows how a lease works is absolutely not focused on the monthly payment... unless you mean getting it as low as possible. Most people on here probably know that you negotiate the sales price just like you would when handing over a bag of cash and then you insist on the current base rate. Nothing complicated about it.
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      07-29-2018, 05:26 PM   #193
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That's your viewpoint.

For some of us who only plan on keeping the car for three years anyhow, it's essentially an insurance policy with no real downside (except a mileage limit).
And more money out of your pocket over the long haul.

There is nothing wrong with leasing; it has many advantages, especially if you want to change cars frequently and don't drive much.

OTOH there is nothing wrong with purchasing, either. Especially if you want to save money over the long haul, and drive a lot.

So pay your money and take your choice, but realize what is right for me may not be right for you, and vice versa.

-H
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      07-29-2018, 06:50 PM   #194
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Placed my order 7/21. Straight purchase of car.

I do plan on tracking the car (I already know I'm weird).

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PREMIUM PACKAGE
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DRIVING ASSISTANCE PACKAGE
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      07-30-2018, 07:00 AM   #195
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Additional thoughts?

Thanks for the thoughts on leasing vs buying. Iím especially interested in specific experiences, good and bad, with the bmw lease agreement. Any regrets on having leased?
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      07-30-2018, 07:07 AM   #196
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Thanks for the thoughts on leasing vs buying. I'm especially interested in specific experiences, good and bad, with the bmw lease agreement. Any regrets on having leased?
The included maintenance isn't what it once was. Now you're required to take care of tires AND other wear and tear (wipers and most notably brakes). Aside from that, the lease end has gotten more annoying (just like Audi and Benz as well)... you now have an "outside company" who does the lease end inspection and they're not as forgiving as they use to be.
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      07-30-2018, 07:16 AM   #197
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Thanks for the thoughts on leasing vs buying. I'm especially interested in specific experiences, good and bad, with the bmw lease agreement. Any regrets on having leased?
I only finance to get the rebates at purchase. Since pre-payment penalties are illegal here, I pay off the loan immediately to minimize interest charges.

I've found BMW FS to be slow, esp. the entity of FS that actually holds the loan: BMW Bank of Ohio. Example: they still can't handle electronic titles in my state.

Otherwise I suspect they are like every other captive financing arms of OEMs: convenient bit more expensive.
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      07-30-2018, 07:34 AM   #198
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They're really the only option for a lease. No one else will give you the trumped up residual and base rate.
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