[rommeeeezy]

I’m currently on Stage 1 Bootmod3 on ACN 91. I know that it’s ok to have no supporting mods for stage 1 on pump, but is the E30 safe to use long term without any other mods? I’ve never really done an ethanol mixture tune before, but I’ve always seen people needing like different fueling kits or pumps and what not.

So just curious of the BM3 E30 tune is generally ok to use without anything.

Thanks

[540iSUP]

I would not do it without a DP upgrade.

[dmanb2b]

Originally Posted by 540iSUP

I would not do it without a DP upgrade.

That would be stage 2. If stock downpipes weren't ok to use they wouldn't offer it in stage 1

[540iSUP]

Originally Posted by dmanb2b

That would be stage 2. If stock downpipes weren't ok to use they wouldn't offer it in stage 1

True, the tune itself is safe with the OEM catalytic converter, however Ethanol is not good for it long term. So for the sake of the catalytic converter, I would not run the E30 stage 1 long term unless I had a catless DP.

[10SecGG]

I haven’t noticed any issues with an E30 tune… however, if you go with an E40 or E50 tune you will more than likely run into issues. Ask me how I know?

[goldfz8]

Ethanol sensor would be good to have. E30 is fine. No one knows true long term results.

[The1EyedPigF97]

Originally Posted by 10SecGG

I haven’t noticed any issues with an E30 tune… however, if you go with an E40 or E50 tune you will more than likely run into issues. Ask me how I know?

definitely LP pump upgrade is needed if you push E50 tune.

I have run out of LP pump just on E50.

[Nippa]

Originally Posted by The1EyedPigF97

definitely LP pump upgrade is needed if you push E50 tune.

I have run out of LP pump just on E50.

What makes you say this? How long before you had issues on your tune? I'm at e60 on a F80paul tune and haven't had any issues at all

[10SecGG]

Originally Posted by Nippa

What makes you say this? How long before you had issues on your tune? I'm at e60 on a F80paul tune and haven't had any issues at all

Well… you either are lucky and have strong lpfp or you haven’t seen any issues YET! But I’ll bet that’ll be short lived.

[Nippa]

Originally Posted by 10SecGG

Well… you either are lucky and have strong lpfp or you haven’t seen any issues YET! But I’ll bet that’ll be short lived.

I'm curious as to why you say that. I haven't heard much about the lpfp failures, or having issues on stock turbos. I know with hybrids the fuelling system can't keep up, but that's 750whp+. Not something you will see on a stage 1 e60 tune.

So unless I've missed something, the fuelling is there for up to e60. Paul's own team even mention that anything above you have to reduce the boost level.

[10SecGG]

Originally Posted by Nippa

I'm curious as to why you say that. I haven't heard much about the lpfp failures, or having issues on stock turbos. I know with hybrids the fuelling system can't keep up, but that's 750whp+. Not something you will see on a stage 1 e60 tune.

So unless I've missed something, the fuelling is there for up to e60. Paul's own team even mention that anything above you have to reduce the boost level.

I'm seeing MOST of us tuning past an OTS E-30 map are having fueling issues in one way or another... I know my car was going into full limp mode almost every time I'd accelerate with aggression, on my custom E-50 map. I've heard everything from just re-gapping the plugs to my mix was incorrect... It's flat out a feeling issue in my case, guaranteed.

I'm happy you're not seeing any trouble on your map settings, but like I said earlier, I wouldn't be at all surprised if you run into some issues sooner than later. These factory lpfp's can't keep up with the required fueling on higher ethanol content in the long run. If you look at your fuel trims, I'll bet you're fully maxed on on your logs... unless you're not running your rig hard.

I race, and do a lot of high rpm high speed runs for fairly long durations, so it's extremely taxing on the fueling system to supply that max effort fuel delivery for sustained time intervals. A few people have said I have a bad tuner who can't tune for my usage... Not the case. It's literally a weak lpfp not allowing the fueling needed for these higher fuel delivery requirements.

[Nippa]

Originally Posted by 10SecGG

I'm seeing MOST of us tuning past an OTS E-30 map are having fueling issues in one way or another... I know my car was going into full limp mode almost every time I'd accelerate with aggression, on my custom E-50 map. I've heard everything from just re-gapping the plugs to my mix was incorrect... It's flat out a feeling issue in my case, guaranteed.

I'm happy you're not seeing any trouble on your map settings, but like I said earlier, I wouldn't be at all surprised if you run into some issues sooner than later. These factory lpfp's can't keep up with the required fueling on higher ethanol content in the long run. If you look at your fuel trims, I'll bet you're fully maxed on on your logs... unless you're not running your rig hard.

I race, and do a lot of high rpm high speed runs for fairly long durations, so it's extremely taxing on the fueling system to supply that max effort fuel delivery for sustained time intervals. A few people have said I have a bad tuner who can't tune for my usage... Not the case. It's literally a weak lpfp not allowing the fueling needed for these higher fuel delivery requirements.

This could also be tune related as well no?

On my last logs from 3rd to 5th the lpfp was in the 70s to 80s.

Ill definitely be keeping the eye out, so appreciate the heads up. I hadn't read about many issues on this topic and haven't seen anyone mention having this issue on a Paul Johnson tune. Will keep an eye out in the coming weeks / months.

[Supr3me]

+1 for fueling issues at higher E%.
I ended up replacing both of my HPFPs due to issues at E50 custom tune. Replaced them and had my tuner walk it back to E40 and she's been much happier. I think the LPFP wasn't supplying enough fuel and ended up damaging the HPFPs.

[The1EyedPigF97]

Originally Posted by Nippa

What makes you say this? How long before you had issues on your tune? I'm at e60 on a F80paul tune and haven't had any issues at all

all depends on how much you pushing it. on 100 RON mixed with E100 for an E50 tune LP pump starts dropping off from 6400rpm.

Its not failing just reaches its limit. I am above 750whp on the E50 tune. Peaked out around 775whp and 1043wnm on the dyno.

As soon as the fuel system gets hot it really starts struggling. its been dialed back and i am daily driving on E30. Managed to push E30 to 701whp 992wnm.

I have eventuri filters, catless downpipes, mid pipe. so it can breathe. will see how lp pump upgrade fixes it before the port injection and E85-E100 tune happens.

[BrockDM]

Originally Posted by The1EyedPigF97

all depends on how much you pushing it. on 100 RON mixed with E100 for an E50 tune LP pump starts dropping off from 6400rpm.

Its not failing just reaches its limit. I am above 750whp on the E50 tune. Peaked out around 775whp and 1043wnm on the dyno.

As soon as the fuel system gets hot it really starts struggling. its been dialed back and i am daily driving on E30. Managed to push E30 to 701whp 992wnm.

I have eventuri filters, catless downpipes, mid pipe. so it can breathe. will see how lp pump upgrade fixes it before the port injection and E85-E100 tune happens.

Any 1/4 mile or 60-130 times to share? Those are pretty big HP numbers

[Nippa]

Originally Posted by The1EyedPigF97

all depends on how much you pushing it. on 100 RON mixed with E100 for an E50 tune LP pump starts dropping off from 6400rpm.

Its not failing just reaches its limit. I am above 750whp on the E50 tune. Peaked out around 775whp and 1043wnm on the dyno.

As soon as the fuel system gets hot it really starts struggling. its been dialed back and i am daily driving on E30. Managed to push E30 to 701whp 992wnm.

I have eventuri filters, catless downpipes, mid pipe. so it can breathe. will see how lp pump upgrade fixes it before the port injection and E85-E100 tune happens.

That's interesting to know. I mix 94 octane which I guess is 98 Ron with e98 to get my e60 mix.

[The1EyedPigF97]

Originally Posted by BrockDM

Any 1/4 mile or 60-130 times to share? Those are pretty big HP numbers

so far based on dragy car did a 10.5 on the 1/4 and 6.5 100-200 before the dyno. this was with 3500+ DA and 82f.

will test again when weather is better and i catch some free time.

[FSociety]

Originally Posted by rommeeeezy

I’m currently on Stage 1 Bootmod3 on ACN 91. I know that it’s ok to have no supporting mods for stage 1 on pump, but is the E30 safe to use long term without any other mods? I’ve never really done an ethanol mixture tune before, but I’ve always seen people needing like different fueling kits or pumps and what not.

So just curious of the BM3 E30 tune is generally ok to use without anything.

Thanks

No issues running BM3 E30 without any Mods, jairomvp182 from Orlando, FL has been running E30-Full E85 on his Stock Hardware 2022 X3M and making solid power curve not a single hiccup or issue. Has driven from Orlando to Miami on Full E85 as well on a rally.

I've ran E30-E50 for my first 8,000 miles on stock hardware no issues on BM3 too.

The particular guys having issues are using MHD (that guy who had to replace his HPFP for example).

[The1EyedPigF97]

Originally Posted by FSociety

No issues running BM3 E30 without any Mods, jairomvp182 from Orlando, FL has been running E30-Full E85 on his Stock Hardware 2022 X3M and making solid power curve not a single hiccup or issue. Has driven from Orlando to Miami on Full E85 as well on a rally.

I've ran E30-E50 for my first 8,000 miles on stock hardware no issues on BM3 too.

The particular guys having issues are using MHD (that guy who had to replace his HPFP for example).

Would be nice if more guys gave feedback so we can see if it only the MHD guys.

I cant see in MHd app what the lpfp is actually doing

[FSociety]

Originally Posted by The1EyedPigF97

Would be nice if more guys gave feedback so we can see if it only the MHD guys.

I cant see in MHd app what the lpfp is actually doing

BM3 has LPFP logging so no worries

And LPFP is definitely not running out of fuel on Stock Turbos yet, look at the below Stock Turbo Stock Fueling *Records*

BM3 still holds the following records for S58 Platform X3M/X4M (OP incase you interested to know) ** Stock Fueling No PI just Proper Custom Tuned on BM3 Platform **
- Stock Hardware 2020 X3M BrockDM 1/4 10.41s 60-130 7.11s
- Stock Hardware LCI X3M jairomvp182 60-130mph 7.11s
- 2020 X4M w/ DPs only 60-130mph 6.86s (myself)

I know anyone who adds Port Injection should go faster but there's maybe only like 2 guys barely faster than Stock Turbos Stock Fueling since they're tuned outside of BM3

[10SecGG]

Originally Posted by FSociety

BM3 has LPFP logging so no worries

And LPFP is definitely not running out of fuel on Stock Turbos yet, look at the below Stock Turbo Stock Fueling *Records*

BM3 still holds the following records for S58 Platform X3M/X4M (OP incase you interested to know) ** Stock Fueling No PI just Proper Custom Tuned on BM3 Platform **
- Stock Hardware 2020 X3M BrockDM 1/4 10.41s 60-130 7.11s
- Stock Hardware LCI X3M jairomvp182 60-130mph 7.11s
- 2020 X4M w/ DPs only 60-130mph 6.86s (myself)

I know anyone who adds Port Injection should go faster but there's maybe only like 2 guys barely faster than Stock Turbos Stock Fueling since they're tuned outside of BM3

My understanding that BrockDM had lpfp issues early as well... Could be wrong, but I'll double check. Who's your tuner? I Know F80 Paul is tuning several of these faster X3/X4M's. My tuner is returning my tune back to my original map than ran well, just closing the throttle plate at the big end to kinda start over to actual see where my issue is? I'm still convinced mine is a fueling issue.

[BrockDM]

Originally Posted by 10SecGG

My understanding that BrockDM had lpfp issues early as well... Could be wrong, but I'll double check. Who's your tuner? I Know F80 Paul is tuning several of these faster X3/X4M's. My tuner is returning my tune back to my original map than ran well, just closing the throttle plate at the big end to kinda start over to actual see where my issue is? I'm still convinced mine is a fueling issue.

You must be thinking of someone else because I haven't experienced any lpfp issues. My logs have been clean since day one on both BM3 93 and PJT E60. This is the first ive seen or people having issues over E30. I have a handful of friends all running E60 with no issues.