[strohw]

I doubt it would eat into the sales of any of the lines you listed. The Macan Turbo at its price is already quite a bit faster and cheaper than an OK optioned Cayenne S or Panamera S. How is making it even faster but increasing the price by 30% going to encourage more people to jump to it? For the 911, very very few people who are looking at a 911 would ever cross shop a macan regardless if it posted better straight line numbers.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

No, it's not. There is a reason why everyone targets S/4S or Turbo.

Whatever, I wasn't even talking to you

The new base 911 is actually that good

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

Whatever, I wasn't even talking to you

The new base 911 is actually that good

I actually think the performance of the base is a sweet spot in some ways. Its already incredibly fast for most people being under 4-seconds and the performance is there even if the numbers don't reflect that. The only thing it really needs is a manual transmission. The new 911's are almost too fast in a way (at least for me, I've always preferred handling over pure speed).

In contrast I've never cared for the Turbo after the 991, I find that is pretty much the Grand Touring model of the 911 lineup (along with the beautiful Targa's). Its incredibly fast, but its also less engaging than say a "slower" Carrera S with a Manual that also weighs about 400lbs less.

In the 991.2 one of my favorite models was the Carrera T. This was the sweet spot of the 991.2's in my opinion. Fast enough for most drivers, an engaging and slick shortened manual transmission (compared to other Carrera's), and despite using the base engine had one of the best applications of turbo's within the lineup, extremely punchy and quick on throttle. I loved driving that car, a lot of fun, and I hope they make another Carrera T for the 992.

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

Whatever, I wasn't even talking to you

The new base 911 is actually that good

I made this thread and I can reply to whomever I want. Base 911 is quite underpowered for a 911. My opinion, deal with it.

[vincechase]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

yea, but ifs don’t count. if Zuffenhausen offered a 500+ hp Macan Turbo S E-hybrid, or whatever you want to call it, it would cost close to 120k.

Yeah but all prices aside lol. Its all factual. Macan is already overpriced as it is. And leases terribly. But i do like the overall car wish it had more power tho.

I do want a compact or small suv with some power for my next car though.

And a c8 or 2nd gen r8 for the weekends and im set.

[vincechase]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

I made this thread and I can reply to whomever I want. Base 911 is quite underpowered for a 911. My opinion, deal with it.

992 4s is a happy medium. Cause basically cant use that power and its sub super car fast.

[F82Tazmanian]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

No, it’s not. There is a reason why everyone targets S/4S or Turbo.

Isnt S just faster? Same chassis/pdk and option for torque vectoring? Turbo is even more numb without rwd option

GT3 is where it's at tho

[F82Tazmanian]

Originally Posted by jstein55

I actually think the performance of the base is a sweet spot in some ways. Its already incredibly fast for most people being under 4-seconds and the performance is there even if the numbers don't reflect that. The only thing it really needs is a manual transmission. The new 911's are almost too fast in a way (at least for me, I've always preferred handling over pure speed).

In contrast I've never cared for the Turbo after the 991, I find that is pretty much the Grand Touring model of the 911 lineup (along with the beautiful Targa's). Its incredibly fast, but its also less engaging than say a "slower" Carrera S with a Manual that also weighs about 400lbs less.

In the 991.2 one of my favorite models was the Carrera T. This was the sweet spot of the 991.2's in my opinion. Fast enough for most drivers, an engaging and slick shortened manual transmission (compared to other Carrera's), and despite using the base engine had one of the best applications of turbo's within the lineup, extremely punchy and quick on throttle. I loved driving that car, a lot of fun, and I hope they make another Carrera T for the 992.

Spot on.

There's a purity to base models people get too insecure to admit.

Turbo is heavier, awd and more single minded.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

Base 911 is quite underpowered for a 911

Underpowered but simply a great car

Less is sometimes more

[Young04]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

yea, but ifs don’t count. if Zuffenhausen offered a 500+ hp Macan Turbo S E-hybrid, or whatever you want to call it, it would cost close to 120k.

I never understood this argument. If you were to compare the X3M to something like a Challenger Hellcat, I'm guessing you'd dismiss the less expensive Challenger because it falls short on the intangibles, even if the Hellcat would destroy the X3M in non traction limited situations. But when comparing the X3M to various Porsches, the intangibles don't count?

[LSM]

The X3M is a phenomenal suv, no doubt about it. The reason I have issue with this comparison is the X3M is tuned for one and who on earth cross shops these two vehicles

Not to mention in no test is a X3M comp close to as fast as a 992 S model anyway.

[F82Tazmanian]

Originally Posted by LSM

The X3M is a phenomenal suv, no doubt about it. The reason I have issue with this comparison is the X3M is tuned for one and who on earth cross shops these two vehicles

Not to mention in no test is a X3M comp close to as fast as a 992 S model anyway.

The guys just throwing together tests of cars he as access to. He's not a full blown car wow/throttle house channel, so he's going with what he has.

No one's doubting a 911 is incredible, but to be fair a 4S traps 124 to 119 on x3m (caranddriver). Not really night and day. Throw in a manual and you better be on your game.

We get it, your 911 is amazing. Happy?

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by LSM

The X3M is a phenomenal suv, no doubt about it. The reason I have issue with this comparison is the X3M is tuned for one and who on earth cross shops these two vehicles

Not to mention in no test is a X3M comp close to as fast as a 992 S model anyway.

No one cross shops X3M and 911. I don't know why people take it so personally, it's just a click baiting video that was posted on the X3M forum. To answer your question, Stage 1 tuned X3M might be slightly quicker than 992 S but it's not a fair comparison (tuned vs stock, AWD vs RWD).

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by Young04

I never understood this argument. If you were to compare the X3M to something like a Challenger Hellcat, I'm guessing you'd dismiss the less expensive Challenger because it falls short on the intangibles, even if the Hellcat would destroy the X3M in non traction limited situations. But when comparing the X3M to various Porsches, the intangibles don't count?

Which argument, dude? That hypothetical 120k Macan Turbo S E-Hybrid doesn't even exist

[Young04]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

Which argument, dude? That hypothetical 120k Macan Turbo S E-Hybrid doesn't even exist

Now you're just dodging.

[LSM]

Originally Posted by F82Tazmanian

The guys just throwing together tests of cars he as access to. He's not a full blown car wow/throttle house channel, so he's going with what he has.

No one's doubting a 911 is incredible, but to be fair a 4S traps 124 to 119 on x3m (caranddriver). Not really night and day. Throw in a manual and you better be on your game.

We get it, your 911 is amazing. Happy?

I have a C2S trap speed is 125... have you seen the diff of 6MPH in trap speed on a 1/4 mile run. It's night and day

That said as I said on every post I have made the X3M is a magnificent suv, I'm not knocking it at all

I just think it's a stupid video. The 911 is a sports car not a SUV. No BMW a comes close to a 911 for sportiness. IVe owned 50+ BMW's it's not a knock it's reality that M is now watered down. I hated my F90 M5 actually like my M4 comp better.

Unfortunately the latest batch of M cars are porkers with poor steering and unsorted suspension.

I personally love the X3M and think it's a better suv than the Macan.

I also have a suv for when I need to haul my dog or items around.

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by LSM

I have a C2S trap speed is 125... have you seen the diff of 6MPH in trap speed on a 1/4 mile run. It's night and day

That said as I said on every post I have made the X3M is a magnificent suv, I'm not knocking it at all

I just think it's a stupid video. The 911 is a sports car not a SUV. No BMW a comes close to a 911 for sportiness. IVe owned 50+ BMW's it's not a knock it's reality that M is now watered down. I hated my F90 M5 actually like my M4 comp better.

Unfortunately the latest batch of M cars are porkers with poor steering and unsorted suspension.

I personally love the X3M and think it's a better suv than the Macan.

I also have a suv for when I need to haul my dog or items around.

Isn’t Porsche watered down too? Porsche should have never made the Panamera/Macan/Cayenne. Keep it a sports car brand, don’t water it down.

[LSM]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

Isn't Porsche watered down too? Porsche should have never made the Panamera/Macan/Cayenne. Keep it a sports car brand, don't water it down.

I mean M is watered down.

Porsche has to make the SUV's bc they sell. They make SUV's so they can keep making sports cars

The 911 is still very much a sports car as are the cayman and boxster

The M cars latest example M3 awd 4100 lbs is ridiculous. M cars used to be all about sporty and light and tossable and superb suspension and steering. That's all gone imo

I had a F90 M5 hated it. Drove a M8 comp for 24 hours no fun... the M brand now seems to be the Gran Touring Brand. AMG is more sporty

Now my assertion does not apply to the suv where I think BMW M makes them very sporty against segment competitors

[F82Tazmanian]

Originally Posted by LSM

I have a C2S trap speed is 125... have you seen the diff of 6MPH in trap speed on a 1/4 mile run. It's night and day

That said as I said on every post I have made the X3M is a magnificent suv, I'm not knocking it at all

I just think it's a stupid video. The 911 is a sports car not a SUV. No BMW a comes close to a 911 for sportiness. IVe owned 50+ BMW's it's not a knock it's reality that M is now watered down. I hated my F90 M5 actually like my M4 comp better.

Unfortunately the latest batch of M cars are porkers with poor steering and unsorted suspension.

I also have a suv for when I need to haul my dog or items around.

Right, I was saying 4S to line out the drivetrains.

I have roll raced quite a bit and 4-6mph really isn't huge, especially if you lose the hit. 8-10mph? now that's a big diff for sure.

Again, this guy clearly doesn't have endless choices to run. Yes, I had a 997 which is arguably more pure, and driven/owned many M/AMG/Porsches (yes a GT3) through friends/family, Porsche is next level.

This has nothing to do with the race though lol. He's not arguing tactility, nor is anyone talking about M's purity.

Chris harris is fond of the new M's and I'd say his experience far exceeds anyone's but I hear you. I do think M has gone astray. And yet, this has nothing to do with the video.

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by LSM

the M brand now seems to be the Gran Touring Brand. AMG is more sporty

Now my assertion does not apply to the suv where I think BMW M makes them very sporty against segment competitors

All correct. However, their M SUVs are excellent. I like the X3MC so much, that I decided to go ahead and also add the X5MC to my garage.

[guarnibl]

I'd take the X3M for my use case I think. That vehicle is insanely fun to drive for what it is. You expect the Porsche to feel fun but I prefer my Spyder even if it is "slower"

[No Boost]

Hypothetical: tuned Macan beats stock M8C. Does it make front page?