Cant help but feel scammed

Josh_pirkle · 03-14-2019, 12:57 PM

Long time browser, first time poster so I apologize in advance if anything isn't allowed.

I purchased a 2013 X3, CPO, lease return, in March of 2016 with 31k on the clock. During signing, our salesman talked me into an "extended manufacturer maintenance" agreement to the tune of around $2600. I agreed to this due to the fact that it was sold as a 100,000 mile plan with no time expiration.

Earlier this month I went in for routine maintenance expecting everything to be covered, only to find out that this agreement had expired Jan/2019.

Understandably furious I pull out all of my contract documents that were given to me the day of sale only to find ZERO literature about this agreement. The only thing is the $2600 price tag added to the retail purchase agreement. I cannot find any helpful information about any of these plans online. BMW customer service says that I purchased a plan that only extended the original maintenance agreement by 2 years.

Now I'm no idiot, (normally) and the only reason that I purchased this agreement is that the car doesn't get driven all that much and I knew that it would come close to paying for itself over 69k miles. Why would I purchase a 2 year agreement when there is ABSOLUTELY no way that I would burn through 69k in 2 years. Currently the car has under 70k on it.

I guess my question is, has anyone else seen this? Has anyone else fallen victim to this kind of crap? And do I have any kind of leg to stand on for recourse? This was an AutoNation BMW dealership if that makes any difference.

oVeRdOsE. · 03-14-2019, 01:33 PM

a lot of issue with this indeed.

at your question if other people fall into this, of course, every-week, at serious customer report tv shows, they speak about this topic. in business/economy news, they also cover the subject many times.

Used car warranty is typically 2 years, so nothing unusual here.
You'll have better luck on google for any car model, than this sub forum imo.

Warranty is always a risk evaluation.
Knowing that the premise of a used warranty plan is 99% profit to the dealer, the risk evaluation start with a strike...

Read again your paper, to make sure there's absolutely nothing that you can give an interpretation.

But even when everything seems to be alright, sometimes it still hard to get paid.

scostu · 03-14-2019, 01:38 PM

https://www.bmwusa.com/financial-ser...n-program.html

scostu · 03-14-2019, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh_pirkle

Long time browser, first time poster so I apologize in advance if anything isn't allowed.

I purchased a 2013 X3, CPO, lease return, in March of 2016 with 31k on the clock. During signing, our salesman talked me into an "extended manufacturer maintenance" agreement to the tune of around $2600. I agreed to this due to the fact that it was sold as a 100,000 mile plan with no time expiration.

Earlier this month I went in for routine maintenance expecting everything to be covered, only to find out that this agreement had expired Jan/2019.

Understandably furious I pull out all of my contract documents that were given to me the day of sale only to find ZERO literature about this agreement. The only thing is the $2600 price tag added to the retail purchase agreement. I cannot find any helpful information about any of these plans online. BMW customer service says that I purchased a plan that only extended the original maintenance agreement by 2 years.

Now I'm no idiot, (normally) and the only reason that I purchased this agreement is that the car doesn't get driven all that much and I knew that it would come close to paying for itself over 69k miles. Why would I purchase a 2 year agreement when there is ABSOLUTELY no way that I would burn through 69k in 2 years. Currently the car has under 70k on it.

I guess my question is, has anyone else seen this? Has anyone else fallen victim to this kind of crap? And do I have any kind of leg to stand on for recourse? This was an AutoNation BMW dealership if that makes any difference.

These plans are 2 years after the original warranty has lapsed. So......total of 7 years from INSERVICE Date.....has nothing to do with the date of WHEN YOU PURCHASED the vehicle.

Based on your info ……..inservice date for the vehicle you purchased started...Jan 2012.

scostu · 03-14-2019, 01:44 PM

Do you have a N20 or N55 engine?

As N20's also have 7yr/70000 mile warranty for timing chain.

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1425846

Josh_pirkle · 03-14-2019, 01:57 PM

I have the N20 and have already had the timing chain and guides replaced before 50k.

The dealer that I went to for service kept referring to this plan as warranty as well. The plan that I am referring to was simply called "Mnftr Maintenance" on the purchase agreement.

What it amounts to is that I paid $2600 for 5 oil changes and few wiper blades when I was specifically told that this plan would not expire before 100k.

Wgosma · 03-14-2019, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh_pirkle

I guess my question is, has anyone else seen this? Has anyone else fallen victim to this kind of crap? And do I have any kind of leg to stand on for recourse? This was an AutoNation BMW dealership if that makes any difference.

Unfortunate experience; no comment regards the first two questions, I have no personal experience to relay, any other info I have is 3rd person at best.

Regarding recourse: I would think you're most likely out of luck on that point.. Seems you agreed to purchasing a contract for extended services without being shown and/or asking to review the details of that agreement prior to signing; don't see how you can stick that one on the seller at this juncture.

Good job getting that timing chain stuff changed out!.

Good luck/Bill

agentorange · 03-14-2019, 04:35 PM

The finance guy here was all over us to take out a plan in addition to the CPO. I declined and you would think I was kicking the guy's dog while feeling up his 12-year old niece from the look he gave me.

Now, when buying anything semi-luxury or better from Carmax pay for the extended warranty and be happy. I sure was after being stuck at the side of I-40 with a blown Jag motor.

///Mposter · 03-14-2019, 09:46 PM

Here is a warranty from carmax. Although I thought it was expensive, it really did cover a lot . I bought the "75,000 mile or 72 months" for $1349. Starting at 46,000 miles in 2013 and I kept it until this year 2019 and traded it in with 76,000 miles.
The warranty covered 2 steering racks , multiple suspension components, belt tensioner, water pump , oil filter housing gasket, rear transmission seal, wheel bearing, steering rack Union , charge pipe . They would not cover at the end with 74,800 the intercooler that had a hole in it . I think the warranty company was trying to cut their losses and make me go away. I think it covered about $15,000 to 20,000 of issues. The steering rack alone was 3,500+1,000labor=$4500 each time.

I was debating keeping it . I paid out of pocket for the valve cover because the warranty would not cover it. Then i got the warning for the rear brakes, replaced them (easy peasy ). Then it started shifting weird and staying in 2nd gear .The steering rack started knocking at the end and I cut my losses and traded it in after an electrical issue that knocked out my navigation and controls.

I really wanted to keep it since I buy my cars cash hold onto them for a long time. I went back to Honda since our Acura has only had battery, tires, and oil / fluid changes . No major issues and 130,000 miles. I've kept my e92 coupe and continue to mess with it and tune it. ( only 50,000 miles/2007)

My conclusion is you probably did get ripped off. But for every person who has no issue, there is a lemon like mine and The warranty was used extensively. It's a gamble!

malicem3 · 03-15-2019, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ///Mposter

Here is a warranty from carmax. Although I thought it was expensive, it really did cover a lot . I bought the "75,000 mile or 72 months" for $1349. Starting at 46,000 miles in 2013 and I kept it until this year 2019 and traded it in with 76,000 miles.
The warranty covered 2 steering racks , multiple suspension components, belt tensioner, water pump , oil filter housing gasket, rear transmission seal, wheel bearing, steering rack Union , charge pipe . They would not cover at the end with 74,800 the intercooler that had a hole in it . I think the warranty company was trying to cut their losses and make me go away. I think it covered about $15,000 to 20,000 of issues. The steering rack alone was 3,500+1,000labor=$4500 each time.

I was debating keeping it . I paid out of pocket for the valve cover because the warranty would not cover it. Then i got the warning for the rear brakes, replaced them (easy peasy ). Then it started shifting weird and staying in 2nd gear .The steering rack started knocking at the end and I cut my losses and traded it in after an electrical issue that knocked out my navigation and controls.

I really wanted to keep it since I buy my cars cash hold onto them for a long time. I went back to Honda since our Acura has only had battery, tires, and oil / fluid changes . No major issues and 130,000 miles. I've kept my e92 coupe and continue to mess with it and tune it. ( only 50,000 miles/2007)

My conclusion is you probably did get ripped off. But for every person who has no issue, there is a lemon like mine and The warranty was used extensively. It's a gamble!

Read "2 steering racks" saw it was a 2011. It seems there really is no fix.

tracer bullet · 03-15-2019, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh_pirkle

... when I was specifically told that this plan would not expire before 100k.

7 years or 100k, whichever came first, not just 100k regardless of the # of years. They did a bad job explaining or you didn't understand.

BIG_KID · 03-15-2019, 08:49 AM

Dealers scam people everyday.

My 19 year old niece got scammed into leasing a 2019 Chevy Equinox just the other day by a fast talking salesman, and all she did was take her car in for an oil change.

Anyway, there is a couple threads floating around that explain how to "tighten up" the steering rack by tightening a friction nut with a 5/8" socket

Wgosma · 03-15-2019, 09:11 AM

$2600 for "Extended Mfgr Maintenance" plan.

That's a pretty hefty sum to add onto the price of buying a used car, Bimmer or whatever brand; i would think most buyers who have had prior experience buying a vehicle from a car dealership would view that offering as a yellow or red flag and ask to see written details before signing on the dotted line.

najnad · 03-15-2019, 09:28 AM

Sadly, the sales people I have run into at dealerships lately know little about the vehicles they are selling and even less about the add-ons like extended warranties. They just want to make the sale and get a commission and if you dont understand something fully, they dont care.

Bottom-line: get everything in writing and make sure that writing matches with what was explained to you. At the end of the day, the dealership will support what is written down and not what you recall from what the sales person said, other than some good will by the dealer, but don't count on it.

///Mposter · 03-15-2019, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malicem3

Quote:

Originally Posted by ///Mposter

Here is a warranty from carmax. Although I thought it was expensive, it really did cover a lot . I bought the "75,000 mile or 72 months" for $1349. Starting at 46,000 miles in 2013 and I kept it until this year 2019 and traded it in with 76,000 miles.
The warranty covered 2 steering racks , multiple suspension components, belt tensioner, water pump , oil filter housing gasket, rear transmission seal, wheel bearing, steering rack Union , charge pipe . They would not cover at the end with 74,800 the intercooler that had a hole in it . I think the warranty company was trying to cut their losses and make me go away. I think it covered about $15,000 to 20,000 of issues. The steering rack alone was 3,500+1,000labor=$4500 each time.

I was debating keeping it . I paid out of pocket for the valve cover because the warranty would not cover it. Then i got the warning for the rear brakes, replaced them (easy peasy ). Then it started shifting weird and staying in 2nd gear .The steering rack started knocking at the end and I cut my losses and traded it in after an electrical issue that knocked out my navigation and controls.

I really wanted to keep it since I buy my cars cash hold onto them for a long time. I went back to Honda since our Acura has only had battery, tires, and oil / fluid changes . No major issues and 130,000 miles. I've kept my e92 coupe and continue to mess with it and tune it. ( only 50,000 miles/2007)

My conclusion is you probably did get ripped off. But for every person who has no issue, there is a lemon like mine and The warranty was used extensively. It's a gamble!

Read "2 steering racks" saw it was a 2011. It seems there really is no fix.

Yeah if you think about it , it had 3 total . The original and two replacements when I owned it. And it needed another !

I'm just glad the warranty was for 72 months from the time I purchased it and not what happened to the OP.

malicem3 · 03-15-2019, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ///Mposter

Yeah if you think about it , it had 3 total . The original and two replacements when I owned it. And it needed another !

I'm just glad the warranty was for 72 months from the time I purchased it and not what happened to the OP.

Though I love BMW's, we will move to a Model Y next. Too many faults with the higher output BMW engines.

najnad · 03-17-2019, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malicem3

Though I love BMW's, we will move to a Model Y next. Too many faults with the higher output BMW engines.

I have a 2011 X3 35i, and haven't had any issues beyond the normal maintenance for a vehicle of its age and mileage. In forum's like these it is far too easy to get the wrong impression about a vehicle as a large percentage who come here only do it to complain while they represent a very small minority of owners overall. No vehicle has a perfect track record when it comes to quality and defects. Not even Tesla. Heck, Tesla's quality and defect issues might be higher than average if you read some of the Tesla forums, but again its probably a vocal minority.

If you personally have had problems with a vehicle, that is unfortunate, but it is unlikely your singular experience taints the entire brand. But then, I have never purchased a vehicle based on brand.

malicem3 · 03-17-2019, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by najnad

I have a 2011 X3 35i, and haven't had any issues beyond the normal maintenance for a vehicle of its age and mileage. In forum's like these it is far too easy to get the wrong impression about a vehicle as a large percentage who come here only do it to complain while they represent a very small minority of owners overall. No vehicle has a perfect track record when it comes to quality and defects. Not even Tesla. Heck, Tesla's quality and defect issues might be higher than average if you read some of the Tesla forums, but again its probably a vocal minority.

If you personally have had problems with a vehicle, that is unfortunate, but it is unlikely your singular experience taints the entire brand. But then, I have never purchased a vehicle based on brand.

I've had 10 BMW's and 3 N54/N55's. I just don't want to have to deal with any engine for our daily driver anymore. Far too many parts that can fail.

I don't expect the Tesla to be perfect and it would be replacing the X3 - which as been fine except for the Eccentric Shaft failure. The sports car slot in our garage still will be held by BMW or, in the future, Porsche.

kevink1 · 03-18-2019, 12:12 PM

If you decide to test drive a Tesla, even though the web site says no appointment necessary, don't believe that. At least on a weekend.

I though it would be fun to test drive one this last weekend. An excuse to go to Dallas from Oklahoma. No appointment, so couldn't test drive. Apparently busy time.

No big loss. I'm just over 69K miles on my 2015 X3, and I don't have plans to replace within the next couple years. Danger in a test drive is that I may love it so much that I end up spending money early.

03-14-2019, 12:57 PM	#1
Josh_pirkle Registered 2 Rep 2 Posts Drives: BMW X3 F25 Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: San Angelo, Texas iTrader: (0)	Cant help but feel scammed Long time browser, first time poster so I apologize in advance if anything isn't allowed. I purchased a 2013 X3, CPO, lease return, in March of 2016 with 31k on the clock. During signing, our salesman talked me into an "extended manufacturer maintenance" agreement to the tune of around $2600. I agreed to this due to the fact that it was sold as a 100,000 mile plan with no time expiration. Earlier this month I went in for routine maintenance expecting everything to be covered, only to find out that this agreement had expired Jan/2019. Understandably furious I pull out all of my contract documents that were given to me the day of sale only to find ZERO literature about this agreement. The only thing is the $2600 price tag added to the retail purchase agreement. I cannot find any helpful information about any of these plans online. BMW customer service says that I purchased a plan that only extended the original maintenance agreement by 2 years. Now I'm no idiot, (normally) and the only reason that I purchased this agreement is that the car doesn't get driven all that much and I knew that it would come close to paying for itself over 69k miles. Why would I purchase a 2 year agreement when there is ABSOLUTELY no way that I would burn through 69k in 2 years. Currently the car has under 70k on it. I guess my question is, has anyone else seen this? Has anyone else fallen victim to this kind of crap? And do I have any kind of leg to stand on for recourse? This was an AutoNation BMW dealership if that makes any difference.
	Appreciate 0 Tweet Quote

03-14-2019, 01:33 PM	#2
oVeRdOsE. Lieutenant Colonel 2706 Rep 1,533 Posts Drives: F25 E91 Audi Avnt E90 Cayenne Join Date: May 2018 Location: mtl iTrader: (0)	a lot of issue with this indeed. at your question if other people fall into this, of course, every-week, at serious customer report tv shows, they speak about this topic. in business/economy news, they also cover the subject many times. Used car warranty is typically 2 years, so nothing unusual here. You'll have better luck on google for any car model, than this sub forum imo. Warranty is always a risk evaluation. Knowing that the premise of a used warranty plan is 99% profit to the dealer, the risk evaluation start with a strike... Read again your paper, to make sure there's absolutely nothing that you can give an interpretation. But even when everything seems to be alright, sometimes it still hard to get paid.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-14-2019, 01:38 PM	#3
scostu Colonel 1623 Rep 2,036 Posts Drives: 2016 F25 Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Space Coast Florida...aka NASA area iTrader: (0)	https://www.bmwusa.com/financial-ser...n-program.html __________________
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-14-2019, 01:44 PM	#5
scostu Colonel 1623 Rep 2,036 Posts Drives: 2016 F25 Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Space Coast Florida...aka NASA area iTrader: (0)	Do you have a N20 or N55 engine? As N20's also have 7yr/70000 mile warranty for timing chain. https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1425846 __________________
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-14-2019, 01:57 PM	#6
Josh_pirkle Registered 2 Rep 2 Posts Drives: BMW X3 F25 Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: San Angelo, Texas iTrader: (0)	I have the N20 and have already had the timing chain and guides replaced before 50k. The dealer that I went to for service kept referring to this plan as warranty as well. The plan that I am referring to was simply called "Mnftr Maintenance" on the purchase agreement. What it amounts to is that I paid $2600 for 5 oil changes and few wiper blades when I was specifically told that this plan would not expire before 100k.
	Appreciate 1 scostu1623.00 Quote

03-14-2019, 04:35 PM	#8
agentorange Major 1508 Rep 1,386 Posts Drives: 328d Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Desert SW iTrader: (0)	The finance guy here was all over us to take out a plan in addition to the CPO. I declined and you would think I was kicking the guy's dog while feeling up his 12-year old niece from the look he gave me. Now, when buying anything semi-luxury or better from Carmax pay for the extended warranty and be happy. I sure was after being stuck at the side of I-40 with a blown Jag motor.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-14-2019, 09:46 PM	#9
///Mposter Macgyver 208 Rep 942 Posts Drives: 2007 e92 335i Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Greensboring iTrader: (0)	Here is a warranty from carmax. Although I thought it was expensive, it really did cover a lot . I bought the "75,000 mile or 72 months" for $1349. Starting at 46,000 miles in 2013 and I kept it until this year 2019 and traded it in with 76,000 miles. The warranty covered 2 steering racks , multiple suspension components, belt tensioner, water pump , oil filter housing gasket, rear transmission seal, wheel bearing, steering rack Union , charge pipe . They would not cover at the end with 74,800 the intercooler that had a hole in it . I think the warranty company was trying to cut their losses and make me go away. I think it covered about $15,000 to 20,000 of issues. The steering rack alone was 3,500+1,000labor=$4500 each time. I was debating keeping it . I paid out of pocket for the valve cover because the warranty would not cover it. Then i got the warning for the rear brakes, replaced them (easy peasy ). Then it started shifting weird and staying in 2nd gear .The steering rack started knocking at the end and I cut my losses and traded it in after an electrical issue that knocked out my navigation and controls. I really wanted to keep it since I buy my cars cash hold onto them for a long time. I went back to Honda since our Acura has only had battery, tires, and oil / fluid changes . No major issues and 130,000 miles. I've kept my e92 coupe and continue to mess with it and tune it. ( only 50,000 miles/2007) My conclusion is you probably did get ripped off. But for every person who has no issue, there is a lemon like mine and The warranty was used extensively. It's a gamble! Attached Images __________________ GTX3076R , ADV, JB4, FMIC, BOV, 17"APEX, 255/40/17 SQ, 6-SPD Manual
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-15-2019, 08:49 AM	#12
BIG_KID Second Lieutenant 68 Rep 288 Posts Drives: 2011 X3 28i Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Northern indiana iTrader: (0)	Dealers scam people everyday. My 19 year old niece got scammed into leasing a 2019 Chevy Equinox just the other day by a fast talking salesman, and all she did was take her car in for an oil change. Anyway, there is a couple threads floating around that explain how to "tighten up" the steering rack by tightening a friction nut with a 5/8" socket
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-15-2019, 09:11 AM	#13
Wgosma Lieutenant Colonel 806 Rep 1,906 Posts Drives: 2012 F25 X3 28i (N52) Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: Northern Nevada iTrader: (0)	$2600 for "Extended Mfgr Maintenance" plan. That's a pretty hefty sum to add onto the price of buying a used car, Bimmer or whatever brand; i would think most buyers who have had prior experience buying a vehicle from a car dealership would view that offering as a yellow or red flag and ask to see written details before signing on the dotted line.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-15-2019, 09:28 AM	#14
najnad General of the Space Forces 171 Rep 721 Posts Drives: 11 X3 35i M-sport Join Date: May 2012 Location: Elkridge, MD iTrader: (0) Garage List 2020 BMW X3 x40i [0.00] 2011 BMW X3 35i M-s ... [0.00] 2017 BMW 330 GT (Wi ... [0.00]	Sadly, the sales people I have run into at dealerships lately know little about the vehicles they are selling and even less about the add-ons like extended warranties. They just want to make the sale and get a commission and if you dont understand something fully, they dont care. Bottom-line: get everything in writing and make sure that writing matches with what was explained to you. At the end of the day, the dealership will support what is written down and not what you recall from what the sales person said, other than some good will by the dealer, but don't count on it. __________________ Current: 2020 X5 x40i M-Sport, Arctic Grey Metallic / Ivory White, Executive Package, Luggage Compartment Package, Integral Active Steering, Tow Package, Parking Assist Package, Driving Assist Package, M-Sport brakes, Tux Mats
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-18-2019, 12:12 PM	#19
kevink1 Second Lieutenant 23 Rep 253 Posts Drives: 2015 X3 xDrive28d Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Oklahoma iTrader: (0)	If you decide to test drive a Tesla, even though the web site says no appointment necessary, don't believe that. At least on a weekend. I though it would be fun to test drive one this last weekend. An excuse to go to Dallas from Oklahoma. No appointment, so couldn't test drive. Apparently busy time. No big loss. I'm just over 69K miles on my 2015 X3, and I don't have plans to replace within the next couple years. Danger in a test drive is that I may love it so much that I end up spending money early.
	Appreciate 0 Quote