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      11-07-2019, 02:35 PM   #221
Yapakanichi
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First and foremost; Thank you for raising your hand to protect us. You put yourself in the line of fire everyday. I appreciate it.

Alright now thats over with....

How often when pulling over a vehicle, that you want to search, does the occupant refuse to allow you?

I mean asking to see a warrant. Also how often does that work? I tried it and the LEO asked if I wanted him to phone the judge at 1 in the morning, I should have said yes.

Also what exactly is "probably cause" these days.
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      11-07-2019, 02:47 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by Yapakanichi View Post
First and foremost; Thank you for raising your hand to protect us. You put yourself in the line of fire everyday. I appreciate it.

Alright now thats over with....

How often when pulling over a vehicle, that you want to search, does the occupant refuse to allow you?

I mean asking to see a warrant. Also how often does that work? I tried it and the LEO asked if I wanted him to phone the judge at 1 in the morning, I should have said yes.

Also what exactly is "probably cause" these days.

Thank you for the supportive words.

I recommend that everybody exercise their 4th Amendment rights. With that said, an officer who knows his case law can find a way into a vehicle much of the time. In addition, if an officer decides to arrest you, tow the vehicle, and/or the driver is on parole or probation with search conditions, that vehicle will be searched.

An officer doesn't need a warrant in all cases, although Arizona v. Gant states that we shall try to obtain a warrant when possible. A seasoned officer can articulate his way into your vehicle.

"Probable Cause" is what it has always been. I think what you meant to ask was, "What is Reasonable Suspicion these days?"......as RS is articulated from the vantage point of an officer, and it will vary.
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      11-07-2019, 03:09 PM   #223
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In my 20 years of living in Los Angeles, I wish I had encountered more reasonable police officers like you. The ones I have came across were just downright mean to me. I have a 100% clean record---no speeding tickets in 20 years. My paperwork is in order. No outstanding/unpaid issues. I am polite. I answer all their questions. I don't give them any attitude. For goodness sake, for many years, I used to work on the tv show America's Most Wanted. I used to record John Walsh's voice-overs every week and mix the show. You'd think I would have a little good karma from that......nope.

I have a long-running build thread for my E90 M3 track car in the E90 track sub-forum, and in June 2018, I complained of an encounter I had in May 2017 that ended up with a point on my license.

I didn't even know I had a point on my license until I was talking to my insurance. It took a year for the point to even show up. We were moving out of CA, so I was dealing with insurance logistics. While sorting out all the details, the prices seemed high, and I asked why, and that's when I was told I had a point on my license......At first, the insurance people couldn't even figure out what had caused it. The whole thing was so sneaky!

In May 2017, a cop pulled me over while I was towing my enclosed trailer with my track car from storage to my house. (I was preparing for a track day the next day.) I was sitting at a light in LA @ Sepulveda and Venice. The cop was sitting in a parking lot set back from the street while I was sitting at the light. Once I turn onto Venice Blvd, he lights me up and pulls me over. He walks up to my hitch setup and stares at it for like 2 minutes---literally 2 minutes. I have an Equalizer-brand weight-distribution hitch with sway control which is more complicated than just a ball hitch. (I've tried to build a safe trailer rig----air springs on the truck so it doesn't sag, a weight distribution hitch, sway control, a camera on the back of the trailer, regular axle maintenance, reflective tape even though my rig isn't long enough to require it, I always check the tire pressures......this is not a garbage unsafe setup.) After a couple minutes, he starts taking pictures of my hitch.

Finally, he comes up to me and says (this is word for word the exact conversation), "Are you the owner of this truck?" Yes. "Who owns the trailer?" Me. "What are you carrying?" An automobile. "Is it new or old?" It's a 2009. Would you like to see it? "No. I'm citing you because your emergency brake cable is not attached correctly." I'm sorry. How should it be attached? He explained how it should be and then asked for my license and registration.

At first, he tells me to stay in the vehicle. Then, he changes his mind and has me exit the vehicle and look at the hitch with him. Then he leaves me standing there and goes to his cruiser. While he was in his cruiser writing a ticket, I pulled out a carabiner from my truck and fixed it right there on the spot. When he came back with the ticket, I asked, "is that how it should look?" He got a sheepish look on his face and said, "yes, that's how it should be." He handed me the ticket and took off.

Now I know why he had that sheepish face----it turns out, he cited me with the nastiest possible version of the ticket he could. It was listed as a not-correctable offence, with points and no traffic school option....I'm sorry, but how is it not correctable when I fixed it right in front of him????

I don't have any experience with tickets. So, I hired a generic traffic ticket lawyer for the trial in Nov 2017. They told me to just let them handle it on my behalf. They accomplished nothing. (In fact, I think they hosed me worse.) The cop showed up at the trial and the judge simply sided with him, advised our side to plead no contest, and put the court fees on my head. So I paid everything. And I thought this dumb adventure was over in Nov 2017. No one advised me that points would still be coming my way months later.

So, now this point is on my license for three years and is going to cost me a couple thousand extra dollars in insurance fees.

And btw, there's NO WAY he could have seen how my brake cable was attached from where he sat in that parking lot. He was 40 feet away on the right side of my rig sitting in his SUV, and that very thin cable was attached on the left side. The Equalizer hitch is a big 60lbs chunk of metal. There's ABSOLUTELY NO WAY he could have seen how it was hooked up. He stopped me assuming he would find something that he didn't like. ummm do we not worry about probable cause now? I was just a trailer sitting at a light.....And did he really need to power slam me with such a nasty ticket? I was polite and succinct and gave him no attitude. Ok, my emergency brake cable wasn't attached properly.....You wanna give me a ticket? Fine. But does it have to be some super nasty non-correctable thing with points? Really?

And I have other stories of meter maids putting parking tickets on my car incorrectly because they check a different pay machine than the one I used, and the machines haven't updated each other on the network. They're still around, so I ask them why I got a ticket and show them on the pay machine I used that I still have plenty of time on the meter. Do they remove the ticket? Nope. They admit that they made a mistake and then tell me to go fight with the city about. Takes weeks of fighting the city to get the ticket voided.

My race car is still in CA, so I still find myself driving there. November 2018, my trailer developed a problem and I was stranded on the side of the 134 Freeway in Glendale for 3 hours. Many police cars drove by in those 3 hours. Did any police officer even bother to stop and check in to see if I was ok? Nope.

Should I start in on the jay-walking tickets in front of my mid-block apartment when I lived in Santa Monica?

I'm a law abiding citizen, raising a couple kids, volunteer in the community, coach kid sports, pay lots of taxes......I just don't understand why they gotta be so nasty....so condescending.....blah.
Damn! That's quite a set of circumstances, and I am empathetic towards you. In some of those instances the officer definitely could've/should've cut you some slack. I believe in diminishing returns when it comes to policing, and when people act in good faith, I truly feel that the spirit of the law should be the de facto response when dealing with a set of circumstances.

FWIW, good on you for moving out of this state. It's geographically beautiful, but it is largely mismanaged, over taxed and poorly governed. I will not retire here.
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      11-07-2019, 06:08 PM   #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Damn! That's quite a set of circumstances, and I am empathetic towards you. In some of those instances the officer definitely could've/should've cut you some slack. I believe in diminishing returns when it comes to policing, and when people act in good faith, I truly feel that the spirit of the law should be the de facto response when dealing with a set of circumstances.

FWIW, good on you for moving out of this state. It's geographically beautiful, but it is largely mismanaged, over taxed and poorly governed. I will not retire here.
Definitely true. The goal is to deliver an effective lesson, so that the infraction don't be repeated. For some, a warning is all it takes. For others, a ticket. But going assessing the highest punishment, even if that cop had the right to, creates animosity towards law enforcement, and might even invite revenge, which would work against the main goal.

Speaking of retirement, can you transfer your years in CA to another state PD?
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      11-07-2019, 07:48 PM   #225
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cliff notes man
Cliff notes... there are assholes everywhere!
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      11-07-2019, 10:17 PM   #226
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cliff notes man
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      11-07-2019, 10:42 PM   #227
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Damn! That's quite a set of circumstances, and I am empathetic towards you. In some of those instances the officer definitely could've/should've cut you some slack. I believe in diminishing returns when it comes to policing, and when people act in good faith, I truly feel that the spirit of the law should be the de facto response when dealing with a set of circumstances.

FWIW, good on you for moving out of this state. It's geographically beautiful, but it is largely mismanaged, over taxed and poorly governed. I will not retire here.
Definitely true. The goal is to deliver an effective lesson, so that the infraction don't be repeated. For some, a warning is all it takes. For others, a ticket. But going assessing the highest punishment, even if that cop had the right to, creates animosity towards law enforcement, and might even invite revenge, which would work against the main goal.

Speaking of retirement, can you transfer your years in CA to another state PD?
The retirement systems are different, and while I could possibly transfer the money/balanced accrued, the percentages received based on years served and highest average salary would be compromised. I went from a California state pension system to a county pension system, and I left the money alone.......for now. The county pension system that I'm currently in is very robust/healthy, and I don't have to share it with most of the state's other police departments, teachers, Department of Water & Power, etc. like I did being a part of CALPERS.
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      11-08-2019, 07:33 AM   #228
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I posted this on E46Fanatics to explain why you can be physically removed from your vehicle for not presenting identification (...after one of the resident detractors posted a video).


The Official "Bad Cop" thread. https://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpo...;postcount=930


For those who don't want to click on the link.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by mistrzmiasta View Post
definition of a piece of **** cop that should be fired ASAP.

https://www.facebook.com/DailyMail/v...5142842625206/


Quote:
Originally Posted by M3Inline6/Sedan_Clan
You do realize that is allowed, right?!? You, as the detained motorist who is about to be taken into custody, don't get to make up your own rules while detained during a traffic stop. Driving a motor vehicle is a privilege, not a right. You agree to certain terms when you choose to operate a motor vehicle on public roads, and one of those terms is presenting a valid license to operate a vehicle issued by the state. If you do not allow law enforcement to properly identify you, you can be arrested in order to effect proper identification (...e.g. CVC 40302(a), CVC 2800(a) and so forth). About the only time(s) you don't have to present identification to a law enforcement official is during a consensual encounter or as the passenger in a vehicle when you, yourself, are not suspected of a crime (...and while the latter is well within your right, by doing so you're only asking for the officer to dig/focus on you more for being cryptic/ambiguous about who you are). Often people who refuse to identify themselves have warrants or other issues with the law. Once properly identified post arrest, and if no other issues present themselves, a motorist will most likely be released pursuant to CVC 40307(b). That officer acted well within the scope of his authority. Nice try though!
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      11-08-2019, 09:06 AM   #229
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In CA can center turn lanes be used to pass slow cars?
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      11-08-2019, 10:38 AM   #230
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In CA can center turn lanes be used to pass slow cars?
I mean the obvious answer is no...
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      11-08-2019, 12:15 PM   #231
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In CA can center turn lanes be used to pass slow cars?
No. You would be issued a citation for doing that just like you would be issued a citation for unlawfully passing on the right shoulder (...CVC 21755).
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      11-08-2019, 01:27 PM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
No. You would be issued a citation for doing that just like you would be issued a citation for unlawfully passing on the right shoulder (...CVC 21755).
That time that UC car scared the living SHIT out of me, nearly had to pull over and change my shorts.

On two wheels, traffic stalled at a red light on a 2-lane, center squished by big trucks next to each other, I attempted to pull to the right side and pass "near" the breakdown lane when the voice of GOD comes over a PA with a simple "Don't"
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      11-08-2019, 01:52 PM   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
No. You would be issued a citation for doing that just like you would be issued a citation for unlawfully passing on the right shoulder (...CVC 21755).
That time that UC car scared the living SHIT out of me, nearly had to pull over and change my shorts.

On two wheels, traffic stalled at a red light on a 2-lane, center squished by big trucks next to each other, I attempted to pull to the right side and pass "near" the breakdown lane when the voice of GOD comes over a PA with a simple "Don't"


I visualized that as I read it. Too funny!
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      11-08-2019, 08:00 PM   #234
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Have you ever ticketed anybody for obstructing or impeding traffic?
Like a slow car with 30 cars behind it ignoring the lane turnouts?
I know there is a law on the books about this but I have never seen it enforced in 50 yrs of driving.
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      11-08-2019, 09:41 PM   #235
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I think he's 10 8
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      11-08-2019, 09:59 PM   #236
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how often do you ticket people for drivin too slow?huge issue here in florida that doesn't seem to be addressed. fucking insanity
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      11-08-2019, 10:50 PM   #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scootr View Post
Have you ever ticketed anybody for obstructing or impeding traffic?
Like a slow car with 30 cars behind it ignoring the lane turnouts?
I know there is a law on the books about this but I have never seen it enforced in 50 yrs of driving.
Yes I have.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorM3 View Post
how often do you ticket people for drivin too slow?huge issue here in florida that doesn't seem to be addressed. fucking insanity
Here in a metro environment, fairly often. Well, I used to fairly often. I don't work freeways anymore. I'm in gang neighborhoods and jail facilities now.
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      11-08-2019, 10:54 PM   #238
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I think he's 10 8
That I am!
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      11-09-2019, 01:09 PM   #239
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Quote:
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I think he's 10 8
That I am!
Nice, which leads me to my next question. What is your favorite patrol vehicle?
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      11-09-2019, 01:39 PM   #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upstatedoc View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by upstatedoc View Post
I think he's 10 8
That I am!
Nice, which leads me to my next question. What is your favorite patrol vehicle?
The Explorer for sure. More room, comfortable, easier to go 10-15 in, quicker than the Crown Vic's, and they are pretty fun to drive (...as a patrol unit). The CV's are okay, but they just so old and beat up, and the Charger, while new(er), is cramped as hell and the visibility sucks. Whenever possible I am in the Explorer. Most station fleets have enough of them.
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      Yesterday, 11:03 AM   #241
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I'm also hearing quite a bit of complaining about the durability of the Chargers, but this is from a handful of LEO's. With all the love for the Crown Vic, I have to wonder if this is more of a loyalty bias than for real?
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      Yesterday, 11:35 AM   #242
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I'm also hearing quite a bit of complaining about the durability of the Chargers, but this is from a handful of LEO's. With all the love for the Crown Vic, I have to wonder if this is more of a loyalty bias than for real?
I think it's a legitimate complaint. I would take the Explorer over the Charger or Crown Victoria any day. I also didn't quite understand the business case for moving to the Charger when we hadn't even been equipped with the Explorer for that long. Some stations are still phasing out the Crown Vic's. My current department has very few Chargers relative to my previous department; most are used for unmarked duty or are driven by brass. My previous department has a bunch of Chargers used for daily patrol. Getting in and out of that Charger is a pain in the ass, and the aforementioned visibility blows. I would have to talk to the fleet guys to really get a handle on the Charger's mechanical durability. I know we beat the crap out of the Ford products, and they keep going and going; I wish the Vic's would stop. Lol!
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