[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

BMW's plan is to continue to offer all power trains for quite sometime

Full Electric , Hybrid and ⛽️ Gasoline cars will be made on shared platforms

The only 100% "built from the ground up EV" in BMW's portfolio is the new BMW iX

Yeah BMW is playing the long game but the press is criticizing them for it. Media people expect them to just abandon generations of ICE and put all their models on full EV platforms. It is a gamble for sure since their EV tech likely won't be able to match Tesla. But their current plan provides more flexibility on a global scale.

[sahajesh]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

It going to get very competitive

The domino effect is already in motion

I really don't see cheaper retail prices for EVs compared to ICE, not for some time.

Govt grants/subsidy will help to some extent but then that's not true retail price as manufacturers can factor that in.

As demand grows, prices don't drop.

[DaveCV]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Anyhow the iX3 seems fine minus its lackluster range. .

I appreciate that everything in CONUS is big which includes the distances that people drive to visit family etc. The iX3 has a UK range of 285 miles. Despite it being twice the weight of an i3, its miles/kWh are only slightly down. Moreover, with 150kW charging, the penalty for stopping to charge isn’t that great, and most people would probably need to use the bathroom facilities after driving 285 miles.

PS: Did I mention that the iX3 is a great car to drive.

[Rikvdb]

Originally Posted by sahajesh

I really don't see cheaper retail prices for EVs compared to ICE, not for some time.

Govt grants/subsidy will help to some extent but then that's not true retail price as manufacturers can factor that in.

As demand grows, prices don't drop.

To be fair, if you spec an X3 30i, which has similar performance, at the same level of kit as an ix3 they are basically priced the same (without taking any government grants into account) Taking into account reduced run the ix3 actually is a better deal.

[Tallest]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

Clearly you're missing the point

Soon enough you won't even be able to drive into the city of London with a ⛽️ gas vehicle

The vision you have is not what will happen to our transportation.

It will be scooters, self driving boxes made by your "favourite" tech company or a mix of ultra expensive "cars" for personal driving that you unlock via subscription for a nice amount.

This "cheap" phase - electric commute for free and fun petrol car you can take to public roads - well, enjoy it, as it will end soon. When it ends, you have been part of that.

And it isnt your fault, because what choice did your politician give you. Companies adopt to whatever the environment is. They adopted to this green agenda this way.

No single tech company is working in the direction you want, but is in the direction I described.

As many users as possible, paying subscription fee to transport themselves, that costs them same as car lease does or more.

Car companies will be relegated to status of suppliers of components like Foxconn.

Profession of any type of driver is gonna be gone in 10 years sans very unique areas. Taxi drivers - gone. Airplane pilots? Let's see.

PS. The X3 here for review is as good at being a normal car as a labrador being a coffee table. Cannot take it seriously. But at least it looks ok, unlike these iX cars.

[MilehighM3]

Originally Posted by Tallest

The vision you have is not what will happen to our transportation.

It will be scooters, self driving boxes made by your "favourite" tech company or a mix of ultra expensive "cars" for personal driving that you unlock via subscription for a nice amount.

This "cheap" phase - electric commute for free and fun petrol car you can take to public roads - well, enjoy it, as it will end soon. When it ends, you have been part of that.

And it isnt your fault, because what choice did your politician give you. Companies adopt to whatever the environment is. They adopted to this green agenda this way.

No single tech company is working in the direction you want, but is in the direction I described.

As many users as possible, paying subscription fee to transport themselves, that costs them same as car lease does or more.

Car companies will be relegated to status of suppliers of components like Foxconn.

Profession of any type of driver is gonna be gone in 10 years sans very unique areas. Taxi drivers - gone. Airplane pilots? Let's see.

PS. The X3 here for review is as good at being a normal car as a labrador being a coffee table. Cannot take it seriously. But at least it looks ok, unlike these iX cars.

This post is 1 min of reading in my life I'll never get back.

You get the award of the most ridiculous post of the day/week/month/forum.

Troll on, but do it elsewhere

[Straight6Dave]

Originally Posted by Ibiza

Just daily two M cars like I do, problem solved and no electric range anxiety.

A majority electric cars by 2030 or 2035 what ever Biden is farting is a political pipe dream at least in the US. Maybe Cali will be mostly electric, but that will be it.

Originally Posted by Ibiza

Just daily two M cars like I do, problem solved and no electric range anxiety.

A majority electric cars by 2030 or 2035 what ever Biden is farting is a political pipe dream at least in the US. Maybe Cali will be mostly electric, but that will be it.

You're just in denial. 99% of car buyers don't give a crap if a car is powered by gas, electricity or unicorn farts. Us here, we're not the market, we're enthusiasts. If BMW (or anyone) just sold cars that we wanted, they'd be out of business.

The reality is, electric cars are much cheaper to operate and are starting to become cheaper to produce. It's a matter of time before a gas engine costs you more both at purchase time and over the cars lifetime.

This has nothing to do with Biden either, Europe and China are running head first into electrification and politicians should see the writing on the wall. Pretending change isn't happening because you don't like it is dumb. It's happening.

I'm not sure I like it either but this has nothing to do with US politics and everything to do with where the world as a whole is going.

[Nahlem]

Originally Posted by Tallest

The vision you have is not what will happen to our transportation.

It will be scooters, self driving boxes made by your "favourite" tech company or a mix of ultra expensive "cars" for personal driving that you unlock via subscription for a nice amount.
This "cheap" phase - electric commute for free and fun petrol car you can take to public roads - well, enjoy it, as it will end soon. When it ends, you have been part of that.
And it isnt your fault, because what choice did your politician give you. Companies adopt to whatever the environment is. They adopted to this green agenda this way.
No single tech company is working in the direction you want, but is in the direction I described.
As many users as possible, paying subscription fee to transport themselves, that costs them same as car lease does or more.
Car companies will be relegated to status of suppliers of components like Foxconn.
Profession of any type of driver is gonna be gone in 10 years sans very unique areas. Taxi drivers - gone. Airplane pilots? Let's see.
PS. The X3 here for review is as good at being a normal car as a labrador being a coffee table. Cannot take it seriously. But at least it looks ok, unlike these iX cars.

Well this is probably not going to happen for a very long time if ever, but what will happen with cars who enters the market with "full self driving" witch is a bit far off yet making a car algorithm think as "freely" as a person is hard, i have driven plenty of cars with the self driving abilities both with ACC and sat in tesla's who has this, and they all have one thing i common they have a hard time reacting like people in certain events like when a car has broken down next to the road the abilities of the self driving systems can't understand fully what is happening and applies full brake or dodging it with erratic behaviour this is one of those hard things to teach a car.

But there is those people who actually do not like driving a car for them it is just an annoying nuance in their daily life that if they could they would have a self driving car just to get some work done or relax with a movie or such on the way home. So yes there will be "cars" for those people too. Although for them it will be more of a gadget if BMW can make that gadget for them then great if it makes our cars cheaper. And that subscriptions model will probably work fine for them.

Then there is those of us who still likes driving our cars for us the cars need to adapt to the modern standards and way of living. And our cars needs to adapt to greener standards even though at this point EV cars ain't as green as they seem sometimes still better then ICE cars but even EVs have loads of work to be done on them not only to increase their range and efficiency but also making them viable to all.

But i do not believe in the war mongering mentality at this point against our regular fuels there still people who can't afford other cars yet and nor have the infrastructure that supports EV where they live, these people still needs to be allowed to get around and get to work, stores and live their life without limiting them self these people probably adjust their living in some other way for the better when not being able to choose a "green" car. But this people rarely sit in an M3/M4 as a main driver its usually more like a Ford Focus or an Volvo V60 alternative an Pickup/Transit car for hauling stuff. As an example.

But what i do have a hard time understanding is if you have the opportunity to choose a EV vs ICE car and where you live then choosing an ICE over EV is hard to defend other then with the argument no one should force you to choose a car you don't want but there should be some thought put in to your car choice, maybe a ICE SUV is not the way to go espicaly an SUV that drinks 1,2L-1,5L/10km, if you live in a city that has support for EV, but maybe an EV SUV if you really want a SUV.

Although i wouldn't probably call this forums the biggest polluters around due to so many having a second car and a main car where the main car is either hybrid or full EV a surprising large amount on these forums have a "green" main car that isn't a enormous polluter. And use their 2nd car for weekends only.

We all have to think a bit further ahead and not just what i want this moment.

[Tallest]

Originally Posted by MilehighM3

This post is 1 min of reading in my life I'll never get back.

Which point you disagree on? I meet companies designing self driving cars and mobility solutions. I have a decent idea of where it is going. What is your problem with my statement, which one? Why is it trolling?

The "minute of my life" is the classic condescending bullsht comment usually given by trolls. Which is ironic given what you say about trolling.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by sahajesh

I really don't see cheaper retail prices for EVs compared to ICE, not for some time.

Govt grants/subsidy will help to some extent but then that's not true retail price as manufacturers can factor that in.

As demand grows, prices don't drop.

Really⁉️

Tesla is about to release a $25k entry level EV in China

Let the disruption begin

[Tallest]

Originally Posted by Nahlem

Well this is probably not going to happen for a very long time if ever, but what will happen with cars who enters the market with "full self driving" witch is a bit far off yet making a car algorithm think as "freely" as a person is hard, i have driven plenty of cars with the self driving abilities both with ACC and sat in tesla's who has this, and they all have one thing i common they have a hard time reacting like people in certain events like when a car has broken down next to the road the abilities of the self driving systems can't understand fully what is happening and applies full brake or dodging it with erratic behavior this is one of those hard things to teach a car.


I sat in self driving taxi in a busy part of a suburb in 20m city. It handled it well, though there was a test engineer behind the wheel. I think these self learning algos will get very good much faster than we expect. There is truth to the fact that it will take time. The self-driving cars will work great if 90% of traffic is other self driving, and works badly if it is only 1%. I guess they do it in batches. City centre - only self driving. Campuses - only self driving. etc. And then you leave your car at some designated spot and change. Door to door commute to office car park may not be working so good, but we also may not have offices as such with WFH thing...

But there is those people who actually do not like driving a car for them it is just an annoying nuance in their daily life that if they could they would have a self driving car just to get some work done or relax with a movie or such on the way home. So yes there will be "cars" for those people too. Although for them it will be more of a gadget if BMW can make that gadget for them then great if it makes our cars cheaper. And that subscriptions model will probably work fine for them.

100%. This is who is targeted. Indeed, it is probably 80% or more who would rather have nothing to do with having nice car and driving it to work. I was in Rome the other month, the cars you see on streets are miserable hatchbacks all dinged up in traffic. There is zero nice about being in those things. I would choose a nice airconned box from google also instead of the sorry looking Peugeot 2 door hatch with half melted headlamps.

Then there is those of us who still likes driving our cars for us the cars need to adapt to the modern standards and way of living. And our cars needs to adapt to greener standards even though at this point EV cars ain't as green as they seem sometimes still better then ICE cars but even EVs have loads of work to be done on them not only to increase their range and efficiency but also making them viable to all.

Honestly, if there is one crazy business I probably can't ever start it is coach building cars like in 100 year ago. Putting nice car bodies on electric skateboard which gives huge design potential to copy old or imagine new is so attractive. There are many people who will pay a lot of money for the custom build beautiful body only they want. While inside - all you need is your phone for entertainment + the basic driving. Skateboard platform by default will handle well so it will be a driver's car that probably passes all needed standards. Low volume will allow you to circumvent a lot of mass produced car makers have to follow. Id be so happy running that kind of business but Im not Jenson Button who launched Lotus now (he does what I think is right). I dont care for Rimac or these crazy looking hyper cars actually. I like beautiful designs, not agressive.


But i do not believe in the war mongering mentality at this point against our regular fuels there still people who can't afford other cars yet and nor have the infrastructure that supports EV where they live, these people still needs to be allowed to get around and get to work, stores and live their life without limiting them self these people probably adjust their living in some other way for the better when not being able to choose a "green" car. But this people rarely sit in an M3/M4 as a main driver its usually more like a Ford Focus or an Volvo V60 alternative an Pickup/Transit car for hauling stuff. As an example.

Lots of people cant afford a car above 10k dollars. So give it like 5-10 years and all the produced first gen electrics will depreciate a lot, while ICE cars will be dying out. Think this used fleet is the key for poorer people to get into EVs. It just isnt there yet.


But what i do have a hard time understanding is if you have the opportunity to choose a EV vs ICE car and where you live then choosing an ICE over EV is hard to defend other then with the argument no one should force you to choose a car you don't want but there should be some thought put in to your car choice, maybe a ICE SUV is not the way to go espicaly an SUV that drinks 1,2L-1,5L/10km, if you live in a city that has support for EV, but maybe an EV SUV if you really want a SUV.

I live in a city, and am putting electric charger to my garage but Im bit more fortunate that I have that option. But I have two cars, and only one garage spot, meaning for now my two ICE cars can cope, but both electrics with one spot - hard one... I think I need to move to a house to really embrace it. I plan on getting Huyndai Ioniq 5 as my first electric (it is the only one I kind of like) or Model 3.



We all have to think a bit further ahead and not just what i want this moment.

Thanks for this reply. Nice.

I really like to talk about whats coming for transportation. Leaders in pioneering self driving and electric are concerned more with making cars self driving and less polluting vs ICE. On rest, I replied in Bold above.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by Ibiza

Just daily two M cars like I do, problem solved and no electric range anxiety.

A majority electric cars by 2030 or 2035 what ever Biden is farting is a political pipe dream at least in the US. Maybe Cali will be mostly electric, but that will be it.

The political influence goes way beyond Biden. In Europe they are determined to kill ICE off entirely, so my favorite automakers, which happen to be European, really have no choice. As far as the US is concerned, California has stricter emissions requirements than the rest of the country. If automakers want to sell cars here, they're unfortunately going to have to comply with CA's unreasonable demands.

I fear we will see a day when ICE are reserved only for the uber-wealthy. Used market prices will be exorbitant and whatever new ICE is still around (Porsche 911?) will be unattainable. A handful of ICE sports cars on the market and subsequent high demand for them = those vehicles being priced too high.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by DaveCV

I appreciate that everything in CONUS is big which includes the distances that people drive to visit family etc. The iX3 has a UK range of 285 miles. Despite it being twice the weight of an i3, its miles/kWh are only slightly down. Moreover, with 150kW charging, the penalty for stopping to charge isn’t that great, and most people would probably need to use the bathroom facilities after driving 285 miles.

PS: Did I mention that the iX3 is a great car to drive.

Meh.

X3M, Porsche Macan, Alfa Stelvio; now those are great cars to drive.

[therealm3]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

I'm currently leasing a LEAF SL Plus w/225 miles of range

It has Pilot Sport All Season 4's mounted and it's an absolute blast to drive

+1 for the SL plus

I told my wife when we got it that if I could put a slightly better suspension on this thing with some real tires it would be a fun car. She laughed "no thank you".

Oh well, even in full stock set up it's a great daily driver. And super cheap to run with gas approaching $5 a gallon for premium.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by therealm3

+1 for the SL plus

I told my wife when we got it that if I could put a slightly better suspension on this thing with some real tires it would be a fun car. She laughed "no thank you".

Oh well, even in full stock set up it's a great daily driver. And super cheap to run with gas approaching $5 a gallon for premium.

Great car for sure

But I am done buying Nissan now that they are a sinking ship

Next is probably the Model Y for us because it's the best offering today besides the 3 for the money

[Sjokosaus]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Unfortunately BMW has no choice but to make cars like this. I really don't care about ho-hum models like the X3 going EV. What's gonna hurt is if cars like the M340, M3, M4, M5, M2 etc start going full EV. Those cars don't even sell in high enough numbers to make any discernible global environmental impact, but politicians don't care about facts and logic.

Anyhow the iX3 seems fine minus its lackluster range. It's OK for daily SUV stuff but many families go on road trips often. When I lived with my folks we'd make the trek from Seattle to Vancouver BC at least 5-6 times/year in our X5s. 'Aint nobody trying to sit for hours at a "fast" charger when one can fill gas in 5-10 mins, especially at nighttime.

Lackluster range? It's only between 80-100km less than a Model 3 despite have a smaller battery and being a tall crossover based on a shared architecture.

[cwhands]

Glad a discussion about the iX3 turned into a gas vs electric debate... c'mon

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by cwhands

Glad a discussion about the iX3 turned into a gas vs electric debate... c'mon

It's to be expected actually

People are fearful of change and those who are against electric cars are completely enthralled with spreading their FUD all over the place

Fear Uncertainty & Doubt

[Tallest]

Originally Posted by cwhands

Glad a discussion about the iX3 turned into a gas vs electric debate... c'mon

Yes, let's not talk about competition and if spending money on new platform is a good idea or not...

I mean we are here to praise BMW's awesome designs, aren't we? Otherwise we are just haters.

[therealm3]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

Great car for sure

But I am done buying Nissan now that they are a sinking ship

Next is probably the Model Y for us because it's the best offering today besides the 3 for the money

I don't think we'll get another leaf because my wife wants something a little bigger. We were genuinely bummed when the X3 electric was canceled for the US. It would fit our use case very well. Now we are waiting to see what comes to market in the next year or so. Probably look at the awd i4, maybe the Nissan ariya, the Audi suv or some of the plug in hybrids. Though I would rather have full electric if we can find something that works.

Do you really think Nissan is on the way out? I mean Mitsubishi is still around somehow so I can't Nissan disappearing before them.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by therealm3

I don't think we'll get another leaf because my wife wants something a little bigger. We were genuinely bummed when the X3 electric was canceled for the US. It would fit our use case very well. Now we are waiting to see what comes to market in the next year or so. Probably look at the awd i4, maybe the Nissan ariya, the Audi suv or some of the plug in hybrids. Though I would rather have full electric if we can find something that works.

Do you really think Nissan is on the way out? I mean Mitsubishi is still around somehow so I can't Nissan disappearing before them.

It's really unfortunate the BMW iX3 is not coming to North America

Nissan is financially where there were 20 years ago

Go drive the Tesla Model Y Long Range

You can schedule it overnight

I think you'll like it

[BMthusiast]

The only EV I enjoy driving is on the golf course.