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      01-23-2022, 12:06 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by allinon72 View Post
While true, those vehicles are almost never discussed here as cross shop potentials.
Will have to agree to disagree. Those are the four that were and are (most) often linked in buying decisions. Different priorities for different people, though. Some have more brand loyalty than preference for size or price (so compare X3M and X5M), others are not too price sensitive (so a $50k+ difference between the X3M and Cayenne is not decisive), etc.
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      01-23-2022, 07:48 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by MRichmond View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by allinon72 View Post
While true, those vehicles are almost never discussed here as cross shop potentials.
Will have to agree to disagree. Those are the four that were and are (most) often linked in buying decisions. Different priorities for different people, though. Some have more brand loyalty than preference for size or price (so compare X3M and X5M), others are not too price sensitive (so a $50k+ difference between the X3M and Cayenne is not decisive), etc.
I had a 2019 GLC 63 AMG and both my 2021 and 2022 X4MC's are better in every single way save for one - the beautiful sounding engine and exhaust. I honestly almost kept the GLC 63 just for the sound but I could not pass up the price I was offered.

Also, the GLC 63 and the X4MC were very similar in terms of the overall ride. Not sure I completely understand the complaints about the ride quality. Then again, I have a 2015 M4 lowered with the M performance suspension. You have to check the fillings in your teeth after driving that thing around town.

But I cannot remember a time thinking to myself while driving the X4MC that it was uncomfortable in any way. I suppose it is just what you are accustomed to. My brother has a 2020 F-Pace SVR and I cannot say the ride quality versus the X4MC is all that different. Maybe I am just numb at this point.
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      01-23-2022, 08:58 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by zer0cool View Post
I bought a lightly pre-owned (~3000 miles) X3M about a year ago. I moved from a hybrid Cayenne to the X3M because I felt the Cayenne hybrid was just too heavy and wanted a lighter, better driving SUV.

The X3M is of course much lighter and drives much better. Overall I would say it's a great car, has tremendous power and handles extremely well for an SUV. Technology wise, honestly after CarPlay came out, I rarely ever use a car's own OS, and both cars had ACC, so it's basically a wash. The big difference, and pretty much the reason I am saying goodbye to the car after just 1 year, is comfort. The Cayenne was just so much more comfortable compared to the X3M. I kind of could put up with the extremely stiff ride of the car (still found it to be annoying), but the wife absolutely hated it. She found the car extremely uncomfortable, to the point of painful and wanted me to sell it soon after we got it. She also felt the msports seats are way too hard. Moreover took a road trip late last year with my mom in the car and she threw-up due to car-sickness... so that was pretty much the last straw.

The fortunate thing is that due to the used-car market, selling the car is easy, but then buying is correspondingly hard. So after a long effort, we are back to a Cayenne... non-hybrid this time so it's only a little bit heavier.

In summary, I still think the X3M is a great driving SUV; however it's greatly lacking in the comfort area... basically very uncomfortable. If the suspension can be just a bit softer, like maybe to an Msport 3 series level at "comfort" setting, it would be one of the best cars around. But as of now, I ve had to say my goodbye.
Tbh
I daily my 22' X3M. I find the car comfortable and have no complaints. The X3M is definitely not for everyone. I never thought i would buy a 500hp SUV
But after driving it and seeing how bmw was able to basically make a m3 wagon lol.
So it seems you definitely didnt enjoy the power and performance and allowed the stiffness of the car to make you get rid of it.

Tbh I don't understand how I hear this same complaint from many people. Its an SUV with 500hp 0-60 in 3.4sec
Car is an animal hands down
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      01-23-2022, 09:39 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zer0cool View Post
I bought a lightly pre-owned (~3000 miles) X3M about a year ago. I moved from a hybrid Cayenne to the X3M because I felt the Cayenne hybrid was just too heavy and wanted a lighter, better driving SUV.

The X3M is of course much lighter and drives much better. Overall I would say it's a great car, has tremendous power and handles extremely well for an SUV. Technology wise, honestly after CarPlay came out, I rarely ever use a car's own OS, and both cars had ACC, so it's basically a wash. The big difference, and pretty much the reason I am saying goodbye to the car after just 1 year, is comfort. The Cayenne was just so much more comfortable compared to the X3M. I kind of could put up with the extremely stiff ride of the car (still found it to be annoying), but the wife absolutely hated it. She found the car extremely uncomfortable, to the point of painful and wanted me to sell it soon after we got it. She also felt the msports seats are way too hard. Moreover took a road trip late last year with my mom in the car and she threw-up due to car-sickness... so that was pretty much the last straw.

The fortunate thing is that due to the used-car market, selling the car is easy, but then buying is correspondingly hard. So after a long effort, we are back to a Cayenne... non-hybrid this time so it's only a little bit heavier.

In summary, I still think the X3M is a great driving SUV; however it's greatly lacking in the comfort area... basically very uncomfortable. If the suspension can be just a bit softer, like maybe to an Msport 3 series level at "comfort" setting, it would be one of the best cars around. But as of now, I ve had to say my goodbye.
I empathize, except for me its the opposite. I can't stand the car's ride quality and hate it, and my wife loves the car. As a result its staying, even though my wife recently drove us home from a gathering when i was tired and the car literally jostled me awake on a number of occasions.

It has improved since i switched over to the Michelin Pilot Sport AS 4's though.
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      01-23-2022, 10:03 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Michael19887 View Post
For the X3MC, I would recommend swapping out the tires to the MPS all seasons first. I started by first installing the MSS Springs and found them to be of poor quality with lots of clacking and clunking noises that wouldn't go away after several adjustments by the installer. MSS never responded with a solution after I sent in videos. I had them taken off my vehicle, put stock shocks and springs back in and threw them away. I tried the all seasons as a last resort before trading it in and the tires did the trick. Still firm as the car should be, but they took the harsh edge off of the ride and I absolutely love the car now. It's not jarring anymore for passengers in the back seat over potholes. No noticeable change in the excellent handling, steering, or braking during daily driving moving from the summers.
Thanks for the tip. I read so many good reviews about MSS but rather not void the warranty on suspension, waste money and time if absolutely necassary. I was planning to swap out summer tires to MPS AS4s right away anyway on any new car since I had great experience with AS3 and AS3+ past 8 years on a lower profile 255-35-19s on my current S4 with lowered Bilstein Eibach setup. Sounds like a bit softer tires does the trick.

Cheers.
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      01-24-2022, 08:54 AM   #28
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I still don't get the complaints. Either the MY22 LCI is THAT much softer compared to the pre-lci or people need to reconsider their expectations. From my perspective, the X3M is basically a lifted up M3 wagon. When it comes to ride/suspension, the F97 is stupid comfortable compared to my precious F80.

To be honest, if the ride in the X3M were that much softer I would actually be disappointed in it. I need that taut feel and handling of an M. If that were gone I'd totally dismiss this platform. It's bad enough that the rest of the BMW lineup has gone so limp-wristed with the ride and handling of Lincoln town car.
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      01-24-2022, 09:26 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by kzg1969 View Post
Funny thing comfort - i find the ride quite stiff but the wife and kids prefer it to the mazda cx3. Who would have thought!

starting to think about a Porsche (Macan) too - never driven one though
Thatís similar with me. I say itís loud and stiff over broken surfaces and my wife and daughter donít notice anything!

They thought my previous 440i on 20Ē run flats was much worse.

MP4Sís and slightly lower pressures helped me.
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      01-24-2022, 02:06 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by moff View Post
Thatís similar with me. I say itís loud and stiff over broken surfaces and my wife and daughter donít notice anything!

They thought my previous 440i on 20Ē run flats was much worse.

MP4Sís and slightly lower pressures helped me.
Yeah, its not great over broken surfaces, but there arent that many of those up here so not too much of an issue. I ended up going Eagle F1 cause you couldnt get MP4S at the time. Seems similar to Contis.

I am down to 2.1bar already - wear looks good, but dont fancy going lower.

it is for sure is less "crashy" than the Focus RS was.

BUT, show it a B-road and you have to slow down cause it cant handle the bumps.
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      01-24-2022, 06:49 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by danniexi View Post
I still don't get the complaints. Either the MY22 LCI is THAT much softer compared to the pre-lci or people need to reconsider their expectations. From my perspective, the X3M is basically a lifted up M3 wagon. When it comes to ride/suspension, the F97 is stupid comfortable compared to my precious F80.

To be honest, if the ride in the X3M were that much softer I would actually be disappointed in it. I need that taut feel and handling of an M. If that were gone I'd totally dismiss this platform. It's bad enough that the rest of the BMW lineup has gone so limp-wristed with the ride and handling of Lincoln town car.
Exactly. Well said

Idk why people are expecting a maybach suspension in a high performance suv.

Go buy a gle or x5
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      01-24-2022, 08:58 PM   #32
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Nobody is expecting luxury ride...just something that you can daily...I have no idea why you keep defending BMW in this matter. Porshe, Audi or even GM kows how to make great suspension to handle at the track and still be comfortable when needed.

And like you said its high performance SUV NOT a race car, but some of you here believe it is.

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Originally Posted by f80NJ17 View Post
Exactly. Well said

Idk why people are expecting a maybach suspension in a high performance suv.

Go buy a gle or x5
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      01-24-2022, 09:12 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by sen_nyc View Post
Nobody is expecting luxury ride...just something that you can daily...I have no idea why you keep defending BMW in this matter. Porshe, Audi or even GM kows how to make great suspension to handle at the track and still be comfortable when needed.

And like you said its high performance SUV NOT a race car, but some of you here believe it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by f80NJ17 View Post
Exactly. Well said

Idk why people are expecting a maybach suspension in a high performance suv.

Go buy a gle or x5
I daily it in NJ bad roads potholes etc. tbh i have no complaints. It can be a stiff rough ride over some roads, but it is bearable. If you expect this car to be a family car for kids and wife and expect a smooth ride dont get it i guess. Something called a test drive.
Or m40i( as I was told it is smooth). I just feel my personal experience I love the car, it reminds me its a True M with that stiff ride. Then hitting the highway putting the peddle to the floor priceless. For the price of the car able to experience speeds and handling from a car like this is definitely a steal.
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      01-24-2022, 09:32 PM   #34
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Being 'real M' has nothing to do with shitty stiff ride. M5 Competition drives like shit but BMW improved it and M5 CS drives much much better.
Drive any Porshe or any GM product with magnetic ride. They perform better in terms of handling than anything from BMW and still are civilized when needed.

Every car jurnalist that reviews X3m has the same complain...shitty ride but sure they all dont know what they are talking about...

Quote:
Originally Posted by f80NJ17 View Post
I daily it in NJ bad roads potholes etc. tbh i have no complaints. It can be a stiff rough ride over some roads, but it is bearable. If you expect this car to be a family car for kids and wife and expect a smooth ride dont get it i guess. Something called a test drive.
Or m40i( as I was told it is smooth). I just feel my personal experience I love the car, it reminds me its a True M with that stiff ride. Then hitting the highway putting the peddle to the floor priceless. For the price of the car able to experience speeds and handling from a car like this is definitely a steal.
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      01-24-2022, 10:14 PM   #35
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Too many people on this forum identify with either hardcore aggressive driving, or complain their f97/f98 doesnt' ride like a cadilac. Not trying to be disrespectful, but each car is built for a purpose and NONE are meant to make everyone happy.

For me, buying cars is identifying the right compatibility between driver and machine. I wanted a bad ass, no compromise "fast car", but one that can deal with Canadian winters and downtown Montreal pot holes, which are about as bad as they come.

It's ok, to have expectations to be comfortable when spending 120k on a car. The way I found perfect happiness was to buy two cars that satisfy opposing desires.

My X4M is the best all around, all season sports car anyone could buy. I can take on massive snow storms, go up to cottages wayy off paved roads.. but when I pull up to a 911 (base one mind you), i still make them fell stupid in straight line acceleration. Its amazing, perfect all around.

When we do a family outing, two toddlers in the rear seat, dogs in the trunk.. The GLC300 is untouchable in comfort, refinement, road handling compliance.. and in the winter, with Hakka 10s, its quite literally a snowmobile on wheels with ridiculous ground clearance.

I can never expect both cars to do what each other is great at, but between the two of them.. I LOVE and appreciate every single attribute they strive in, instead of always complaining one is too quiet and slow, while the other is too loud and aggressive. Depending what I want when I head to the garage, I get it every time and love both experience equality.

Not everything fits into a single box, but if you're going to own a single SUV, and can pay the 20-40% premium for the segment.. the Cayenne/Maccan are the closest thing to all around perfection, by a long shot.
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      01-25-2022, 01:34 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by f80NJ17 View Post
I daily it in NJ bad roads potholes etc. tbh i have no complaints. It can be a stiff rough ride over some roads, but it is bearable. If you expect this car to be a family car for kids and wife and expect a smooth ride dont get it i guess. Something called a test drive.
Or m40i( as I was told it is smooth). I just feel my personal experience I love the car, it reminds me its a True M with that stiff ride. Then hitting the highway putting the peddle to the floor priceless. For the price of the car able to experience speeds and handling from a car like this is definitely a steal.
This reminds me of a clip from Top Gear when Clarkson rides around in the Z4:



At the 7:12 mark: "This ride is totally unacceptable, absolutely unacceptable...its an American car, thats why the ride is so harsh....you go 'hey its sporty, that's sporty, you got no suspension, its sporty'"

Quote:
Originally Posted by sen_nyc View Post
Being 'real M' has nothing to do with shitty stiff ride. M5 Competition drives like shit but BMW improved it and M5 CS drives much much better.
This is correct, the ride quality in the M2 CS blows doors off the original versions of the car and X4M. Feels like a Rolls back to back, and obviously the handling blows doors of an SUV, so the argument that it is a 'True M' is wrong. My Boxster GTS 4.0L also feels like a Rolls convertible in sports setting when i drive it back to back with the X4M. Bad ride quality is not a sign of performance, its a sign of lazy engineering.

Last edited by ScullyD; 01-25-2022 at 01:40 PM..
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      01-25-2022, 01:49 PM   #37
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Much of the “poor ride” is also the noise transmitted and vibration. Drive the car with the windows open, sunroof open and it’s fine.

I had a Toyota Minivan that got hit in the rear corner, suspension was unaffected but a muffler was a bit misaligned and hit something on big bumps and made a small noise each time along with some vibration. Everyone thought the ride was terrible. It was just noise and vibration unrelated to the suspension.

So isolation at the struts attached to the car, is needed if they are indeed solid and not rubber.
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      01-25-2022, 02:14 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by JaeP View Post
Much of the ďpoor rideĒ is also the noise transmitted and vibration. Drive the car with the windows open, sunroof open and itís fine.

I had a Toyota Minivan that got hit in the rear corner, suspension was unaffected but a muffler was a bit misaligned and hit something on big bumps and made a small noise each time along with some vibration. Everyone thought the ride was terrible. It was just noise and vibration unrelated to the suspension.

So isolation at the struts attached to the car, is needed if they are indeed solid and not rubber.
Yea probably my biggest suspension complaint is that huge THUD I get when hitting a bump.

It makes me feel like it wasn't built to take regular bumps on the road.

Otherwise I do not think it is overly harsh but BMW could have done better in comfort mode.
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      01-25-2022, 03:13 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by zer0cool View Post
I bought a lightly pre-owned (~3000 miles) X3M about a year ago. I moved from a hybrid Cayenne to the X3M because I felt the Cayenne hybrid was just too heavy and wanted a lighter, better driving SUV.

The X3M is of course much lighter and drives much better. Overall I would say it's a great car, has tremendous power and handles extremely well for an SUV. Technology wise, honestly after CarPlay came out, I rarely ever use a car's own OS, and both cars had ACC, so it's basically a wash. The big difference, and pretty much the reason I am saying goodbye to the car after just 1 year, is comfort. The Cayenne was just so much more comfortable compared to the X3M. I kind of could put up with the extremely stiff ride of the car (still found it to be annoying), but the wife absolutely hated it. She found the car extremely uncomfortable, to the point of painful and wanted me to sell it soon after we got it. She also felt the msports seats are way too hard. Moreover took a road trip late last year with my mom in the car and she threw-up due to car-sickness... so that was pretty much the last straw.

The fortunate thing is that due to the used-car market, selling the car is easy, but then buying is correspondingly hard. So after a long effort, we are back to a Cayenne... non-hybrid this time so it's only a little bit heavier.

In summary, I still think the X3M is a great driving SUV; however it's greatly lacking in the comfort area... basically very uncomfortable. If the suspension can be just a bit softer, like maybe to an Msport 3 series level at "comfort" setting, it would be one of the best cars around. But as of now, I ve had to say my goodbye.
Thanks for posting. What did you think of the X3M exhaust?

I also have a Cayenne on the list for a next vehicle so this thread is helpful.

I am now in the middle of an X3M rental in Germany. 200kph is all I am good for. The car has more but I donít have the nerve in Frankfurt-Cologne traffic. Speed differential vs slower traffic requires more trust than I am willing to grant in other driversí lane discipline.


The exhaust moans and drones at speed. Not a fan.

The suspension is bouncy, definitely bouncy. This is avoidable by BMW. The harshness is better than I expected. The car has 20Ē wheels, not plush 19Ē. Maybe the better quality surfaces of German roads is playing a role.

Brakes are great as expected and required for a car of this capability.

Seats are reasonable. If a person is not in the ďhealthyĒ BMI range I expect the seats would be objectionably hard. The leather is quite nice.

Overall: meh

I want more comfort and donít need all of the performance. The Cayenne S seems like the right balance. I want to rent or test drive a Macan S to complete the comparison vs the G01 platform.
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      01-25-2022, 05:04 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chassis View Post
Thanks for posting. What did you think of the X3M exhaust?

I also have a Cayenne on the list for a next vehicle so this thread is helpful.

I am now in the middle of an X3M rental in Germany. 200kph is all I am good for. The car has more but I don’t have the nerve in Frankfurt-Cologne traffic. Speed differential vs slower traffic requires more trust than I am willing to grant in other drivers’ lane discipline.


The exhaust moans and drones at speed. Not a fan.

The suspension is bouncy, definitely bouncy. This is avoidable by BMW. The harshness is better than I expected. The car has 20” wheels, not plush 19”. Maybe the better quality surfaces of German roads is playing a role.

Brakes are great as expected and required for a car of this capability.

Seats are reasonable. If a person is not in the “healthy” BMI range I expect the seats would be objectionably hard. The leather is quite nice.

Overall: meh

I want more comfort and don’t need all of the performance. The Cayenne S seems like the right balance. I want to rent or test drive a Macan S to complete the comparison vs the G01 platform.
If exhaust sound is high on your list of importance, the F-Pace SVR and GLC63 are way ahead of the X3M and Macan. Even if you spend thousands on an aftermarket exhaust, the X3M sound won't touch the stock systems of those two.

The comfort discussion here is a predictable deja vu. My view (as one who has had multiple road and full-prepped M race cars) is this: this is an SUV that is billed as a fast, fun, usable, every day car. The tiny percentage of extra handling that the undeniably stiff suspension delivers in comparison to its significantly more comfortable competitors can be appreciated only on track or in near-the-limit driving that likely should not be done on public roads anyway. It is a question of balance, and in this case, BMW got it wrong.
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