[GDEvans]

Originally Posted by njlime

Also, the local Volvo dealer no longer offers service loaners which is something I find important.

I have no idea whether my BMW Dealer offers that. They come to my house and collect the car, and drop it back when the work is complete.

[njlime]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback. I agree that 1 week is not enough time for a thorough review. I only mentioned my initial thoughts. As Bob in IL said, when I ordered, ventilated leather seats were only available in black Vernasca. Seats should be either ventilated or not, either leather or Sensatec. I fail to understand what difference the color of leather makes to the assembly process.
If I remember, the B&W stereo was about $3k in the Volvo. After listening to the HK Surround system, it was well worth the cost. And as someone pointed out, it used to be available in the X3 but not for 2024.

[avi66]

Originally Posted by njlime

Thanks to everyone for the feedback. I agree that 1 week is not enough time for a thorough review. I only mentioned my initial thoughts. As Bob in IL said, when I ordered, ventilated leather seats were only available in black Vernasca. Seats should be either ventilated or not, either leather or Sensatec. I fail to understand what difference the color of leather makes to the assembly process.
If I remember, the B&W stereo was about $3k in the Volvo. After listening to the HK Surround system, it was well worth the cost. And as someone pointed out, it used to be available in the X3 but not for 2024.

The BMW B&W ALEV 4 audio has never been an option on the G01, which tops out at the BMW ALEV 3 HK (option 688). In the case of BMW, B&W “sound system” just refers to the actual speakers, and some branding/MGU menu changes.

The BMW B&W option uses Harman, albeit different to ALEV 3, to provide amplification and DSP, either Logic 7 or QuantumLogic depending on the BMW model.

Here’s an example from B&W for a BMW model using HK logic 7.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by avi66

The BMW B&W ALEV 4 audio has never been an option on the G01, which tops out at the BMW ALEV 3 HK (option 688). In the case of BMW, B&W “sound system” just refers to the actual speakers, and some branding/MGU menu changes.

The BMW B&W option uses Harman, albeit different to ALEV 3, to provide amplification and DSP, either Logic 7 or QuantumLogic depending on the BMW model.

Here’s an example from B&W for a BMW model using HK logic 7.

the entire ID7 ram architecture is trash... centralizing all audio processing thru 1 unit is how we got here... the ID6 stereo and older true Logic 7 systems where great... i still to this day recall my 2007 335i with the L7 HK and it was phenomenal with any music

[avi66]

Originally Posted by ASAP

the entire ID7 ram architecture is trash... centralizing all audio processing thru 1 unit is how we got here... the ID6 stereo and older true Logic 7 systems where great... i still to this day recall my 2007 335i with the L7 HK and it was phenomenal with any music

In my experience, you will never reach a 100% consensus of humans agreeing on audio system performance even when listening in the same environment at the same time, let alone on a forum.

AFAIK the G01 iD6 HK centralised the DSP/amplification in a trunk mounted “Top Hi-Fi” aka HK unit digitally connected to the head unit via MOST optical.

The RAM architecture operates on a similar principle, but replaces MOST with Ethernet, and incorporates radio receivers, ASD etc into the same device.

Here’s the difference between G01 iD6 HiFi (analogue from HU), and Top HiFi (HK) (digital from HU) -

[bocabimmer]

[QUOTE=avi66;31063847]In my experience, you will never reach a 100% consensus of humans agreeing on audio system performance even when listening in the same environment at the same time, let alone on a forum.

The other issue is the environment… it’s got exhaust and wind noise and traffic.

Personally the X3 system is still better than some other brands of cars (I’m looking at you Honda) and doesn’t sound like it has a wet blanket over the speakers. That’s good enough.

I’ll save my money from the HK and invest in a good indoor setup, or a really nice set of over ear cans.

[avi66]

Originally Posted by bocabimmer

The other issue is the environment… it’s got exhaust and wind noise and traffic.

Personally the X3 system is still better than some other brands of cars (I’m looking at you Honda) and doesn’t sound like it has a wet blanket over the speakers. That’s good enough.

I’ll save my money from the HK and invest in a good indoor setup, or a really nice set of over ear cans.

Probably a better investment.

As you say, a car is a really audio hostile environment, not only for the noise you mention, but it’s also a confined space that changes depending on all sorts of factors i.e. number of people in the space, trunk full/empty or trunk cover open/closed, pano blind or roof open/closed etc, etc.

The setting on the HK system, particularly the interaction between Logic 7, surround, and EQ, can make a significant difference imo.

Going HiFi option will limit DSP, including how certain types of content is decoded, which can’t fixed after the fact.

[ASAP]

i encourage you guys if you ever have a chance listen to the Bang and Olufsen upgraded stereo in an Audi Q5 / SQ5... the BMW option is by all accounts in comparison an embarrassment... i mean i think the fact that BMW downgraded the stereo in the later gens speaks volumes...

[avi66]

Originally Posted by ASAP

i encourage you guys if you ever have a chance listen to the Bang and Olufsen upgraded stereo in an Audi Q5 / SQ5... the BMW option is by all accounts in comparison an embarrassment... i mean i think the fact that BMW downgraded the stereo in the later gens speaks volumes...

It’s interesting, Harman purchased B&O Automotive years back. All owned by Samsung.

What did BMW downgrade in later gens ?

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by avi66

It’s interesting, Harman purchased B&O Automotive years back.

What did BMW downgrade in later gens ?

it doesn't matter who owns who... if the b&o system sounds better lol... maybe audi had higher standards for their upgraded audio than bmw

the amp was downgraded to start... either way you spin it, for audio quality the ram architecture is inferior to prior gens... its a cost saving iniative

[avi66]

Originally Posted by ASAP

it doesn't matter who owns who... if the b&o system sounds better lol... maybe audi had higher standards for their upgraded audio than bmw

the amp was downgraded to start... either way you spin it, for audio quality the ram architecture is inferior to prior gens... its a cost saving iniative

I’m not spinning anything, the Harman hardware is different across different BMW options. Large corporations tend to seek economies of scale in solutions and manufacturing. They just play on the “brand”, a bit like the force works on the weak minded lol.

When was it downgraded ? From what to what, and has anyone actually measured it ?

Is this a similar B&O system https://totallyev.net/audi-e-tron-au...lufsen-system/

“The £1,895 Comfort & Sound Pack in the Audi e-tron comes with a 16-speaker Bang & Olufsen system and is a worthwhile upgrade over the stock 10-speaker configuration. However, audiophiles will be left disappointed with its recessed mid-range and somewhat closed soundstage.”

I’ve added the BMW HK review from the same guy as a data point of his opinion/scoring having listed to both - https://totallyev.net/bmw-ix3-audio-...harman-kardon/

“The BMW iX3 Premier Pro/M Sport Pro models house a 16-speaker Harman Kardon audio system that outputs 600 Watts of power. The system excels in the mid-bass and high frequencies, while also providing an engaging soundstage with the Logic 7 Surround technology. However, it lacks a physical subwoofer in the boot and is slightly recessed in the mids, which prevents it from competing with the best systems on the market. Nevertheless, it's still worthy of TotallyEV's Performance award.”

He mentions 600w because that’s what BMW told him, a bit like the US website lol.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by avi66

I’m not spinning anything, the Harman hardware is different across different across different BMW models.


When was it downgraded ? Has anyone actually measured it ?

id6 to id7 lol... 2020 amp has 600w as opposed to the 460 we get... no need to measure, sit and listen lol... if you need to measure, then its entirely possible, you dont need the better stereo lol

[avi66]

Originally Posted by ASAP

id6 to id7 lol... 2020 amp has 600w as opposed to the 460 we get... no need to measure, sit and listen lol... if you need to measure, then its entirely possible, you dont need the better stereo lol

See post #27 paragraph 1.

It’s interesting because as of a couple of minutes ago BMW US website still claims 600w for HK option in a G01.

It’s also interesting that the original Harman system back in the day launched on a 5 (might be wrong on the model) claimed 420w total.

Hence, has anyone actually measured the output irrespective of what you think you hear.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by avi66

It’s interesting because as of a couple of minutes ago BMW US website still claims 600w for HK option in a G01.

It’s also interesting that the original Harman system back in the day launched on a 5 (might be wrong on the model) claimed 420w total.

Hence, has anyone actually measured the output irrespective of what you think you hear.

it has now been proven that is incorrect... go to the hk car audio website

[avi66]

Originally Posted by ASAP

it has now been proven that is incorrect... go to the hk car audio website

lol I already know what the HK website claims, and it’s closer to the 5 series above, which I can only assume was crap given the output and your logic.

But, has it been proven by anyone actually measuring it ?

[bocabimmer]

Originally Posted by ASAP

i encourage you guys if you ever have a chance listen to the Bang and Olufsen upgraded stereo in an Audi Q5 / SQ5... the BMW option is by all accounts in comparison an embarrassment... i mean i think the fact that BMW downgraded the stereo in the later gens speaks volumes...

I have the 12 speaker B&O in my Expedition (not the 22 speaker unleashed) and it sounds amazing.

[Fredcohiba]

A number of auto review sites including Car & Driver commented on the “smallish” side view mirrors.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by bocabimmer

I have the 12 speaker B&O in my Expedition (not the 22 speaker unleashed) and it sounds amazing.

the q5 one is 19 speakers, 750w and has a glorious sub...

bmw x3 HK has 16 speakers, 464W and 2 teeny subs underneath the seats

They don't compare and Audi's upgrade cost is very similar... the 48K q5 trim pack can have the B&O standard by default lol

[lfdal54]

Originally Posted by ASAP

the q5 one is 19 speakers, 750w and has a glorious sub...

bmw x3 HK has 16 speakers, 464W and 2 teeny subs underneath the seats

They don't compare and Audi's upgrade cost is very similar... the 48K q5 trim pack can have the B&O standard by default lol

The one in my wife's Q5, the B&O, is wasted on her. Talk radio and NPR. I wish I could swap it for mine which is worse than my 2011 Lucerne.

[ContactPatch]

If you could swap the B&O from Audi into the X3, swap these too. Audi Sport Seats in Fine Napa leather, a treasured seat for a splendid Arsch.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by ContactPatch

If you could swap the B&O from Audi into the X3, swap these too. Audi Sport Seats in Fine Napa leather, a treasured seat for a splendid Arsch.

i'd be awfully happy w the x3m ones as an option as well... but alas bmwusa deprives us

[hyde]

Coming from X5, I actually find X3 mirrors (are M40 mirrors same size with the blades) actually easier to view sides with more range Of visibility. Maybe becuase they are closer? I had gigantic mirrors on q7, but visibility or perhaps placement was bad and I had more blind spots than BMWs mirrors.

Also side and a pillar is so much better than other suvs I drove.