[MachinesWithSouls]

Originally Posted by bjcarls

Some just don't want it, it has nothing to do with performance. BMW sent me a questionnaire (owner circle), guessing everyone gets them but I know it was a question months ago. Maybe they listen?

I would take it off every car and SUV I own. I never use it and always keep the sunshade closed. Less weight, more headroom, less expense, safer and quieter.

If you don't want it that's fine - I use mine all the time, to each their own. But plenty of people are on the "lightweight bro" diet.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by IB M

Great news that there will be a no moon roof option.

1 weight reduction

2 many people never use a moonroof - AC for hot days and on nice days windows down is better without sunroof because hot sun on ur face is for the pool or beach

3 savings = $1200 cheaper

4 long term moonroof is liability to break, leak or rust

5 Win/Win - Moonroof available for those who use it, like it

that's a ridiculous list.

I have owned the following cars and never had a moonroof leak

1993 Honda Accord EX - sold in 2012 with 225,000 miles.
1991 BMW M3 pujrchased 1993 - sold in 2006 with 147K
2005 Subaru Legacy - purchased new - sold in 2012 with 89,000 miles
2013 X1 M sport- purchased 2015 currently 70K miles

That's approximately 40 years of age on sunroof vehicles. I haven't spent a dollar on any of them with regards to roof related issues. I had ONE issue in all those years on my E30 M3... the cables got off track. I actually took it to be diagnosed.. it was going to be 1K to fix.. I declined. A few months later I tried it again and it fixed itself.. and I never had an issue again.


regarding your list.

1- no argument here
2- personal choice
3- no argument there - see #2 and decide if one will use it.
4- your absolute weakest argument of the list
5- makes sense.

you could have simply stated " Great news that there will be a no moon roof option. " and left the list out.


My X1 is outside my office RIGHT NOW with sunroof tilted up to keep cooler while sitting in the sun.

Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars

If you don't want it that's fine - I use mine all the time, to each their own. But plenty of people are on the "lightweight bro" diet.

+1

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by bjcarls

Some just don’t want it, it has nothing to do with performance. BMW sent me a questionnaire (owner circle), guessing everyone gets them but I know it was a question months ago. Maybe they listen?

I would take it off every car and SUV I own. I never use it and always keep the sunshade closed. Less weight, more headroom, less expense, safer and quieter.

sounds like a personal problem...

yes. BMW does listen... well.. selectively.... I haven't seen them undo their auto rev match or make ASD switchable yet..

They listened really closely when it came to M mirrors for the M2 though.. lol

[Arcades]

Thanks Jason!

I don't like how the Executive is packaged. If X3M/X4M comes w/ CF Roof, why get rid of that for Panoramic Sunroof? Ehhh... Not... a fan of that. Definitely need that Panoramic delete option.

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by Arcades

Thanks Jason!

I don't like how the Executive is packaged. If X3M/X4M comes w/ CF Roof, why get rid of that for Panoramic Sunroof? Ehhh... Not... a fan of that. Definitely need that Panoramic delete option.

If you get the M drivers package and exec the pano roof is deleted. Maybe I misunderstood your post, but just in case.

[bjcarls]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

I haven't seen them undo their auto rev match or make ASD switchable yet..

Think about ARM though. Rev match is probably a safety/minimize an over rev situation due to a guy with two left feet. Taking it out wouldn’t save them anything. ASD, well, probably scared people will here how soulless most turbo BMWs sound. That should be easy and can be done. But have no reason why that can’t be somewhere in iDrive.
A sunroof is an easy delete option that saves money multiple ways and makes people happy.

[SNAGuy]

Originally Posted by -JLT-

yeah, hopefully it'll work on the X3M otherwise i may not get it

It might take a little time but I'm sure they will make a custom one that will fit perfectly.

It's been done for the X5M and other models and I'm sure it will be done for the X3M and X4M too.

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by bjcarls

Think about ARM though. Rev match is probably a safety/minimize an over rev situation due to a guy with two left feet. Taking it out wouldn’t save them anything. ASD, well, probably scared people will here how soulless most turbo BMWs sound. That should be easy and can be done. But have no reason why that can’t be somewhere in iDrive.
A sunroof is an easy delete option that saves money multiple ways and makes people happy.

Doubtful on the rev match. Everything from a Camaro to a Porsche allows you to customize rev match settings nowadays.

[Max Well]

Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars

I'm sorry, I don't mean to make fun here at all. But I see everyone going bananas here for the moonroof delete option. Wut?
You're in an SUV. You don't notice it in an M3 if it has a moonroof, and you're sure as hell not going to notice it in these things. These are great trucks that handle well for what they are, but I can't imagine anyone tracking this, so really, get the roof folks.

Yeah... so, where to start...

You begin by making a disclaimer about not wishing 'to make fun here at all.' OK, we're listening. Then you proceed with comments, "in these things", and "these are great trucks"... And then topping it off with the usual and mundane, "I can't imagine anyone tracking this, so really, get the roof folks."

Probably not the ideal way to be taken seriously on the X3M/X4M Forum which is frequented by those interested in BMW's Performance Engineering, and how best to maximize such in the vehicles we drive, track or no track. Many of which are M2, M3, M4, and M5 Drivers.

Some estimated numbers:

Your M3: HP 425, roof width 42", roof length 60", roof surface area 2520 sq in, wt Al Roof 21.3 lbs, CFRP roof wt 8.7 lbs, ht 56.1", est CG 20.8", vehicle ht above CG 35.3", AL roof moment 62.5 ft-lbs, curb wt 3630, SSF 1.505, wt moon roof ~27.1 lbs, moon-roof moment 132.7 ft-lbs, Wt (lbs)/HP 8.5. (Rough numbers)

The X3M Comp: HP 503, roof width 44", roof length 80", roof surface area 3520 sq in, wt Al Roof 29.7 lbs, CFRP wt 12.1 lbs, ht 65.7", est CG 24.4", vehicle ht above CG 41.3", AL roof moment 102.3 ft-lbs, curb wt 4620, SSF 1.351, wt moon roof ~126.6 lbs, moon-roof moment 485.9 ft-lbs, Wt (lbs)/HP 9.2. (Rough numbers)

Not sure these numbers mean much to you, but they tell a very different story about the actual Physics involved, and how replacing the X3M's moon roof with even OEM Al makes a far greater composite difference to the handling and dynamics of the X3M Comp as it would to the smaller-roof'd, lower and wider slung M3 - quite counter to your generalizations. You can try to make the argument 'are you going to track it, if not then you won't notice a difference', but you do realize how hollow that sounds on a Forum filled with BMW Enthusiasts?

[AndroidRobot]

Originally Posted by Arcades

Thanks Jason!

I don't like how the Executive is packaged. If X3M/X4M comes w/ CF Roof, why get rid of that for Panoramic Sunroof? Ehhh... Not... a fan of that. Definitely need that Panoramic delete option.

where is it mentioned the roof is CF because this would be the first I'm hearing of one

[MystroX5]

I see the X3M can’t have ACC with the Sunstone metalic like the new X5.
“Sunstone metallic
C1N cannot be ordered with ZDB”

A few new X5 owners that ordered Sunstone were not aware of all the options that can’t be configured with the color due to the camera not playing well with the color. No ACC as well as other typical options you would expect at that price point.

[MachinesWithSouls]

Originally Posted by Max Well

Yeah... so, where to start...

You begin by making a disclaimer about not wishing 'to make fun here at all.' OK, we're listening. Then you proceed with comments, "in these things", and "these are great trucks"... And then topping it off with the usual and mundane, "I can't imagine anyone tracking this, so really, get the roof folks."

Probably not the ideal way to be taken seriously on the X3M/X4M Forum which is frequented by those interested in BMW's Performance Engineering, and how best to maximize such in the vehicles we drive, track or no track. Many of which are M2, M3, M4, and M5 Drivers.

Some estimated numbers:

Your M3: HP 425, roof width 42", roof length 60", roof surface area 2520 sq in, wt Al Roof 21.3 lbs, CFRP roof wt 8.7 lbs, ht 56.1", est CG 20.8", vehicle ht above CG 35.3", AL roof moment 62.5 ft-lbs, curb wt 3630, SSF 1.505, wt moon roof ~27.1 lbs, moon-roof moment 132.7 ft-lbs, Wt (lbs)/HP 8.5. (Rough numbers)

The X3M Comp: HP 503, roof width 44", roof length 80", roof surface area 3520 sq in, wt Al Roof 29.7 lbs, CFRP wt 12.1 lbs, ht 65.7", est CG 24.4", vehicle ht above CG 41.3", AL roof moment 102.3 ft-lbs, curb wt 4620, SSF 1.351, wt moon roof ~126.6 lbs, moon-roof moment 485.9 ft-lbs, Wt (lbs)/HP 9.2. (Rough numbers)

Not sure these numbers mean much to you, but they tell a very different story about the actual Physics involved, and how replacing the X3M's moon roof with even OEM Al makes a far greater composite difference to the handling and dynamics of the X3M Comp as it would to the smaller-roof'd, lower and wider slung M3 - quite counter to your generalizations. You can try to make the argument 'are you going to track it, if not then you won't notice a difference', but you do realize how hollow that sounds on a Forum filled with BMW Enthusiasts?

You know, they just did a test on the grand tour, with the Aston, Bentley and M850, against some ancient Renault that barely ran. The concept was simple - in real world conditions, those amazing cars were no faster that the old Renault because of traffic and pedestrians and lights, etc.

I mention that because no one ever NEEDS the speed. We want the speed. But how much speed do we need?

On a track, if you're a good driver, you may notice the weight difference slightly, and it MIGHT gain you a tenth of a second. But then, why buy a car that's so high off the ground, with so much space and a hatch. It seems silly to embrace the practicality of the car, then shun a feature based on weight reduction.

All your fancy calculations mean nothing to me because you're talking about how a car feels at the limit - which is very high in both my M3 and an X3M - and not how a car feels on a road, where these will live 99% of the time. And since a good driver in an X3 can beat a bad driver in an M3, that 50 pound difference just seems even more trivial.

And lastly, if you've driven An X5M on the track (I have at the performance center) you'd know they are absolutely amazing cars. But all the fancy electronics and wide tires cannot hide the fact that you are asking over 2 tones of metal to move around a track. Stepping firmly on the gas causes the nose to point to the sky.

Least you think I limit this criticism to X guys - I make fun of M3 guys too, when they say the car handles "so much better"

[Fugly M3]

Originally Posted by MystroX5

I see the M3 can't have ACC with the Sunstone metalic like the new X5.
"Sunstone metallic
C1N cannot be ordered with ZDB"

A few new X5 owners that ordered Sunstone were not aware of all the options that can't be configured with the color due to the camera not playing well with the color. No ACC as well as other typical options you would expect at that price point.

Saw this earlier today...Congrats on your new custom color $100k performance suv...sorry no cameras on this one. But yea, you can have them on a $20k beige Honda. Really, BMW?!

[AndroidRobot]

Originally Posted by MystroX5

I see the M3 can't have ACC with the Sunstone metalic like the new X5.
"Sunstone metallic
C1N cannot be ordered with ZDB"

A few new X5 owners that ordered Sunstone were not aware of all the options that can't be configured with the color due to the camera not playing well with the color. No ACC as well as other typical options you would expect at that price point.

X3M? it must be the bright reflective surface that causes issues. ACC is offered but not with Sunstone. The X3M doesn't look aggressive enough despite most likely being very quick

[-JLT-]

Originally Posted by SNAGuy

It might take a little time but I'm sure they will make a custom one that will fit perfectly.

It's been done for the X5M and other models and I'm sure it will be done for the X3M and X4M too.

that's what I'm hoping as I won't be getting the X3M until December

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars

You know, they just did a test on the grand tour, with the Aston, Bentley and M850, against some ancient Renault that barely ran. The concept was simple - in real world conditions, those amazing cars were no faster that the old Renault because of traffic and pedestrians and lights, etc.

I mention that because no one ever NEEDS the speed. We want the speed. But how much speed do we need?

On a track, if you're a good driver, you may notice the weight difference slightly, and it MIGHT gain you a tenth of a second. But then, why buy a car that's so high off the ground, with so much space and a hatch. It seems silly to embrace the practicality of the car, then shun a feature based on weight reduction.

All your fancy calculations mean nothing to me because you're talking about how a car feels at the limit - which is very high in both my M3 and an X3M - and not how a car feels on a road, where these will live 99% of the time. And since a good driver in an X3 can beat a bad driver in an M3, that 50 pound difference just seems even more trivial.

And lastly, if you've driven An X5M on the track (I have at the performance center) you'd know they are absolutely amazing cars. But all the fancy electronics and wide tires cannot hide the fact that you are asking over 2 tones of metal to move around a track. Stepping firmly on the gas causes the nose to point to the sky.

Least you think I limit this criticism to X guys - I make fun of M3 guys too, when they say the car handles "so much better"

X5M is over 1,000 lbs heavier than the X3M. So yeah that would be noticeable.

[RobbDubbs]

May be a typo on the ordering and pricing guides.. but I noticed the tire sizes for the 20" wheel option would not pair well with the xDrive system.
Listed are: F 245/45R20 R 265/45R20

Anyone know if the AWD system in the new X3M/X4M accommodates tire sizes that are not within that 1% difference? (Have not read this if it has been discussed before)

[Mako]

Originally Posted by RobbDubbs

May be a typo on the ordering and pricing guides.. but I noticed the tire sizes for the 20" wheel option would not pair well with the xDrive system.
Listed are: F 245/45R20 R 265/45R20

Anyone know if the AWD system in the new X3M/X4M accommodates tire sizes that are not within that 1% difference? (Have not read this if it has been discussed before)

I thought they were using 255

But why can Mercedes offer such large rear tires on the GLC?

[MystroX5]

Originally Posted by AndroidRobot

X3M? it must be the bright reflective surface that causes issues. ACC is offered but not with Sunstone. The X3M doesn't look aggressive enough despite most likely being very quick

Corrected. 2 months ago my dealer got stuck with a X5 Sunstone that a customer ordered that had no idea it didn’t have ACC. I actually brought it up to my dealers attention when they mentioned they had this one coming in. They looked puzzled and had to tell the customer that ordered it. The customer refused it.

[turbotoy4me]

Thank You Jason for posting the pricing information. Super exciting and much lower than expected. Can't wait for the configurator to come on line..

[Zeroblade]

Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars

I'm sorry, I don't mean to make fun here at all. But I see everyone going bananas here for the moonroof delete option.

Wut?

You're in an SUV. You don't notice it in an M3 if it has a moonroof, and you're sure as hell not going to notice it in these things.

These are great trucks that handle well for what they are, but I can't imagine anyone tracking this, so really, get the roof folks.

This.

You do what you will with your money but some things just don't make much sense. Yeah, long term point of failure but what rubber steals don't fail? Though I do want to see first person to make the X3/4-M a full track car (suv)?

This thing is one hell of a bargain. Not stupid amounts of power, nor lacking. Makes one reconsider looking at a F8x over F97 but these are two different beasts. Do you want the power + RWD or power + AWD? Used market on F8x should explode once leases are up.

[Roundown]

Originally Posted by Max Well

Yeah... so, where to start...

You begin by making a disclaimer about not wishing 'to make fun here at all.' OK, we're listening. Then you proceed with comments, "in these things", and "these are great trucks"... And then topping it off with the usual and mundane, "I can't imagine anyone tracking this, so really, get the roof folks."

Probably not the ideal way to be taken seriously on the X3M/X4M Forum which is frequented by those interested in BMW's Performance Engineering, and how best to maximize such in the vehicles we drive, track or no track. Many of which are M2, M3, M4, and M5 Drivers.

Some estimated numbers:

Your M3: HP 425, roof width 42", roof length 60", roof surface area 2520 sq in, wt Al Roof 21.3 lbs, CFRP roof wt 8.7 lbs, ht 56.1", est CG 20.8", vehicle ht above CG 35.3", AL roof moment 62.5 ft-lbs, curb wt 3630, SSF 1.505, wt moon roof ~27.1 lbs, moon-roof moment 132.7 ft-lbs, Wt (lbs)/HP 8.5. (Rough numbers)

The X3M Comp: HP 503, roof width 44", roof length 80", roof surface area 3520 sq in, wt Al Roof 29.7 lbs, CFRP wt 12.1 lbs, ht 65.7", est CG 24.4", vehicle ht above CG 41.3", AL roof moment 102.3 ft-lbs, curb wt 4620, SSF 1.351, wt moon roof ~126.6 lbs, moon-roof moment 485.9 ft-lbs, Wt (lbs)/HP 9.2. (Rough numbers)

Not sure these numbers mean much to you, but they tell a very different story about the actual Physics involved, and how replacing the X3M's moon roof with even OEM Al makes a far greater composite difference to the handling and dynamics of the X3M Comp as it would to the smaller-roof'd, lower and wider slung M3 - quite counter to your generalizations. You can try to make the argument 'are you going to track it, if not then you won't notice a difference', but you do realize how hollow that sounds on a Forum filled with BMW Enthusiasts?

lol