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      07-14-2018, 02:29 AM   #133
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Nothing wrong with the brakes on my X3, at all....
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      07-15-2018, 10:27 AM   #134
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More X3 upgrade goodness from Tro-Nik!

Tro-Nik G30 M Sport front brake upgrade

Notice that there's no bracket. This means that G30 calipers are a direct fit for F25 X3 front brakes. All that's needed is the center bore spacer to adapt the sedan's larger hub bore diameter down to the SUV's hub size. Strange that all of the BMW SUVs use smaller hub bores than the sedans.

I'll figure out the hub bore sizing and post up when I do. If anyone has time to measure or look it up first, please do. It needs to be the hub rotor diameter, BTW, not the wheel bore diameter. They're different. Measurement with calipers would be best.
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      07-15-2018, 07:07 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hardparker View Post
More X3 upgrade goodness from Tro-Nik!

Tro-Nik G30 M Sport front brake upgrade

Notice that there's no bracket. This means that G30 calipers are a direct fit for F25 X3 front brakes. All that's needed is the center bore spacer to adapt the sedan's larger hub bore diameter down to the SUV's hub size. Strange that all of the BMW SUVs use smaller hub bores than the sedans.

I'll figure out the hub bore sizing and post up when I do. If anyone has time to measure or look it up first, please do. It needs to be the hub rotor diameter, BTW, not the wheel bore diameter. They're different. Measurement with calipers would be best.
Those look fantastic. However after researching...they are hard to come by used so far that I see. No Ebay, salvage yards, etc. What are your thoughts on sourcing these Hardparker?

I just flashed to Bootmod3 Stage 1 this afternoon. I put Akebono's all the way around last weekend and bedded them in. They have no bite. However after driving on them a week you get used to them. However I want to upgrade badly.
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      07-15-2018, 11:23 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasR View Post
Those look fantastic. However after researching...they are hard to come by used so far that I see. No Ebay, salvage yards, etc. What are your thoughts on sourcing these Hardparker?

I just flashed to Bootmod3 Stage 1 this afternoon. I put Akebono's all the way around last weekend and bedded them in. They have no bite. However after driving on them a week you get used to them. However I want to upgrade badly.
If you were to do the pads over again would you go with the Akebono pads again? If no which ones?
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      07-16-2018, 10:40 AM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasR View Post
Those look fantastic. However after researching...they are hard to come by used so far that I see. No Ebay, salvage yards, etc. What are your thoughts on sourcing these Hardparker?

I just flashed to Bootmod3 Stage 1 this afternoon. I put Akebono's all the way around last weekend and bedded them in. They have no bite. However after driving on them a week you get used to them. However I want to upgrade badly.
The calipers go for about $1600-$1700 new, per pair, from what I can find. Used are closer to $1100. There are a few pairs on ebay.

It turns out that's an E60 M5 rotor in order to be able to clear the inside radius of the brake pads. The G-series cars go down from 5x120 to 5x112 bolt pattern, and the 5x120 F10 and F01 374x36mm rotors won't allow the pad to clear due to the larger bolt pattern and design of the rotors. The E60 M5 rotor also is more deeply offset by 11mm than the equivalent size F10 rotor.
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      07-16-2018, 03:20 PM   #138
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Damn those look pretty. So the tronik setup must be a custom hat/rotor. Didn’t see a price for them either on the link(prob not risking a Russian purchase either.

Thanks for all the hard work on here by fellow members. I wiuld definitely say the braking performance is sub par. I also feel there is a fair amount of dive under braking. I’m wondering if those who have upped pad/rotor combos, if they also have sport suspension or lowering springs. I think it might take a combo of all of the above to get the braking in these cars improved to a higher degree.02
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      07-16-2018, 06:33 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by E90705 View Post
If you were to do the pads over again would you go with the Akebono pads again? If no which ones?
No I would not. However to get me wrong...Akebono Euros for our X3's no. They are fantastic on my wife's E90 335i. The stock units had the worst brake dust I had ever seen for an OEM pad...basically on the level with track pads.

The F25's stock pads do not dust that bad in my opinion. So if I had to do it over again I'd order stock.
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      07-16-2018, 06:41 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hardparker View Post
The calipers go for about $1600-$1700 new, per pair, from what I can find. Used are closer to $1100. There are a few pairs on ebay.

It turns out that's an E60 M5 rotor in order to be able to clear the inside radius of the brake pads. The G-series cars go down from 5x120 to 5x112 bolt pattern, and the 5x120 F10 and F01 374x36mm rotors won't allow the pad to clear due to the larger bolt pattern and design of the rotors. The E60 M5 rotor also is more deeply offset by 11mm than the equivalent size F10 rotor.
So still on track to be doable? So that's just an off the shelf unmodified E60 M5 rotor?

All you need to know that's left is the hub bore sizing?
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      07-16-2018, 07:54 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasR View Post
No I would not. However to get me wrong...Akebono Euros for our X3's no. They are fantastic on my wife's E90 335i. The stock units had the worst brake dust I had ever seen for an OEM pad...basically on the level with track pads.

The F25's stock pads do not dust that bad in my opinion. So if I had to do it over again I'd order stock.
I currently have textar pads and while they have plenty of pad left and rotor thickness is still within spec, I’m wanting a better pad/rotor combo. The dust isn’t “too” bad but after a day you can see the dust.
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      07-16-2018, 08:46 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hardparker View Post
More X3 upgrade goodness from Tro-Nik!

Tro-Nik G30 M Sport front brake upgrade

Notice that there's no bracket. This means that G30 calipers are a direct fit for F25 X3 front brakes. All that's needed is the center bore spacer to adapt the sedan's larger hub bore diameter down to the SUV's hub size. Strange that all of the BMW SUVs use smaller hub bores than the sedans.

I'll figure out the hub bore sizing and post up when I do. If anyone has time to measure or look it up first, please do. It needs to be the hub rotor diameter, BTW, not the wheel bore diameter. They're different. Measurement with calipers would be best.
I agree with your conclusion on the rotor, they're using the E60 M5 rotor.

I tried to do a little homework on the caliper. Looking at the caliper for a G30, the numbers are different by trim:

530 (running a 348x36 rotor)
34 11 6 880 303 - left
34 11 6 880 304 - right

540/550 (running a 374x36 rotor)
34 11 6 880 305 - left
34 11 6 880 306 - right

I also looked up the 2018 X3 M40

G01 M40 (running a 348x36 rotor)
34 11 6 884 879 - left
34 11 6 884 880 - right

The G30s use pads with part number 34 10 6 888 459, while the G01 used 34 11 6 88 457. The Brembo data sheet for pad P 06 099 shows compatible vehicles as the new 5 and 6 series (non-M cars), 7 series and new X3s.

I wonder if there really is a difference on the physical shape of the calipers for those cars (different bolt location, offset side to side, or height; i.e. distance away from the center of the hub). I doubt the bolt locations are different, I'm sure BMW tries to standardize that across platforms. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if the calipers for the larger rotors were further from the hub, in theory the 1 inch larger rotor has a sweep area 1/2 an inch away from the hub, so the caliper may be moved out 1/2 an inch to accommodate.

The two primary questions that I have are:
1) Does it matter which car the caliper comes off of, and
2) While Tro-Nik opted for the E60 M5 rotor with a 374x36 size, is there a caliper and rotor setup that would work using a 348x36 disk? Possibly even a non-M two piece disk that could keep the costs down. That would still be an increase from the 328x28 size of the 3.5i X3, and would be close to the 348x30 of the F26 X4 M40i. That seems like it would help address the issue of brake bias. If 348x36 is sufficient for the new X3 M40, I'd think it would be good for us too.

I wonder if there's a caliper that would bolt to the X3 hub that would work with a F26 X4 M40 disk? The rotor is a little thinner, so the pads would have to go 3mm further on each side, but I'd assume that would be okay. If everything else physically lined up...
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      07-16-2018, 10:36 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WagonR View Post
The two primary questions that I have are:
1) Does it matter which car the caliper comes off of, and
2) While Tro-Nik opted for the E60 M5 rotor with a 374x36 size, is there a caliper and rotor setup that would work using a 348x36 disk? Possibly even a non-M two piece disk that could keep the costs down. That would still be an increase from the 328x28 size of the 3.5i X3, and would be close to the 348x30 of the F26 X4 M40i. That seems like it would help address the issue of brake bias. If 348x36 is sufficient for the new X3 M40, I'd think it would be good for us too.

I wonder if there's a caliper that would bolt to the X3 hub that would work with a F26 X4 M40 disk? The rotor is a little thinner, so the pads would have to go 3mm further on each side, but I'd assume that would be okay. If everything else physically lined up...
To answer question 1, calipers from G30 and G11 and similar will work. There are 348x36 calipers and 374x36 calipers, marked on the back. The 348x36 are often unpainted, but sometimes blue. The 374x36 are typically blue, but there were some black and silver ones on the G11.

Question 2: the rotor hub for the G30/G11 Brembo 4-piston calipers is smaller due to the smaller 112mm bolt pattern. On the face of it, there are F01 and F10 rotors with seemingly identical 348x36 and 374x36 sizes, but they're for 120mm wheel bolt pattern and have a larger diameter rotor hat, which the pad from the G30 calipers hits, so won't mount. Check DARKN1GHT's thread in the F10 forum to see what I mean:
Brake upgrades from other BMW models on F10
. The reason why the E60 M5 rotor works is due to having the smaller hat diameter than the typical F01/F10 rotor hat diameter. Also, the 11mm increased offset eliminates the need for any lateral spacer, apparently, when mated up to G30/G11 calipers on the F25.


For the last question, the F26 X4 M40i disk and caliper setup bolt up to the F25 X3 directly.
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      07-16-2018, 11:47 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hardparker View Post
To answer question 1, calipers from G30 and G11 and similar will work. There are 348x36 calipers and 374x36 calipers, marked on the back. The 348x36 are often unpainted, but sometimes blue. The 374x36 are typically blue, but there were some black and silver ones on the G11.

Question 2: the rotor hub for the G30/G11 Brembo 4-piston calipers is smaller due to the smaller 112mm bolt pattern. On the face of it, there are F01 and F10 rotors with seemingly identical 348x36 and 374x36 sizes, but they're for 120mm wheel bolt pattern and have a larger diameter rotor hat, which the pad from the G30 calipers hits, so won't mount. Check DARKN1GHT's thread in the F10 forum to see what I mean:
Brake upgrades from other BMW models on F10
. The reason why the E60 M5 rotor works is due to having the smaller hat diameter than the typical F01/F10 rotor hat diameter. Also, the 11mm increased offset eliminates the need for any lateral spacer, apparently, when mated up to G30/G11 calipers on the F25.


For the last question, the F26 X4 M40i disk and caliper setup bolt up to the F25 X3 directly.
Thank you for the clarification on the calipers. Now that I'm looking for it, I can see the marking on the back of calipers. I'd think the Tro-Nik setup uses the 374x36 caliper, right? To your point, if one wanted to re-create that set they would need to source the 374x36 calipers, the pads, the E60 M5 rotors, and then figure out a solution for a hub-centric ring. Maybe Tro-Nik would sell just that part.

On the F26 M40i question; I wasn't clear. I understand that the F26 caliper and rotor setup would bolt onto a F25. My question was; would a F26 M40i 348x36 rotor work with the smaller 348x36 Brembo caliper. I think what you're saying is the hub portion of the 5x120 F26 M40i rotor has too wide of a diameter, which would interfere with the smaller 348x36 caliper. Looking at pictures of the setups it also looks like the brembo caliper uses a pad that's a lot taller than the standard F26 M40 pad, so even if there wasn't an issue with the bub of the rotor, I think the Brembo pad would be too tall for the designed sweep area of the F26 M40 rotor.

I think the Brembo 374x36 caliper, with the E60 M5 rotor, and the supplied hub-centric ring is a more practical solution than the 6-piston 400x36 M5 caliper kit.
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      07-17-2018, 11:03 AM   #145
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Yeah, Tro-Nik's kit must use the 374x36 calipers. All that's needed is the hubcentric ring, it would appear. Those are easily sourced from companies that make custom hubcentric rings for wheels. Pricing looks to be about $100 per set of four, so $50 per pair if you split it with a friend. From previous measurements, the right size would seem be 80.5mm O.D. and 74.5mm I.D. But, better off checking for yourself. Any custom wheel spacers would likely be too tall, so would need to be milled down to be flush with the rotor hat face, unless the shop making them can do that at the same time.

Correct that F series rotors won't allow the pad from G series 4-piston calipers to clear the rotor hat. Unless you use a rotor with a smaller diameter hat, like the E60 M5 rotor has.

I agree that the Tro-Nik 400x36 setup is overkill. I like the new offering with the G series calipers, though, for sure. Seems just right. Still pricey to piece together. I'm guessing with used calipers for $1100, rotors for $500-600, and spacers for maybe $100 or so, it looks like maybe $2000 or so after pads and other bits.
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      07-18-2018, 03:24 PM   #146
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Ok guys it looks like there's a little more to the G30/M5 retrofit than an adapter ring. I wrote Tro-Nik yesterday and asked if we could buy the ring from him and also what its size is.

This is what he wrote back:
You need a washer to install caliper
And need to cut the pads by the internal radius. So you need cnc
We have 2 kit
- 2 washers
- 2 adapters
- all bolts

And second
- first kit
- modified pads


I'm not sure what cutting the pads means but I don't like that we can't just buy off the shelf pads. I asked for more information along with prices.
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      07-18-2018, 03:44 PM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hardparker View Post
No, it's somewhere in the vicinity of 10mm. A stack of washers might, but that would be too sketchy.
I see X5 brakes going for such a steal, anyway to actually make them work? Maybe we can have some design a spacer?

Thanks
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      07-18-2018, 07:23 PM   #148
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E70 X5M rotors with either the E70 X5M or F85/6 calipers make the most sense to me assuming the bias is unchanged. An aluminum spacer is easier than cutting pads, running hubcentric spacers, etc. Only downside is if someone wanted to run 18" wheels
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      07-19-2018, 06:27 AM   #149
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Ok so Tro-Nik responded:

because the pads does not insert into the caliper

- first kit - 180 USD
- second kit - 470 USD

without delivery


So I'm almost sure that with that cost along with the rotors and calipers it's a bit too much for me.

That puts me back to the X5 50i caliper setup, or if feasible, the E70 X5M setup, if that will fit.
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      07-19-2018, 11:48 AM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasR View Post
Ok so Tro-Nik responded:

because the pads does not insert into the caliper

- first kit - 180 USD
- second kit - 470 USD

without delivery


So I'm almost sure that with that cost along with the rotors and calipers it's a bit too much for me.

That puts me back to the X5 50i caliper setup, or if feasible, the E70 X5M setup, if that will fit.
Whats the real way of making the X5 50i caliper work?
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      07-19-2018, 10:28 PM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasR View Post
Ok so Tro-Nik responded:

because the pads does not insert into the caliper

- first kit - 180 USD
- second kit - 470 USD

without delivery


So I'm almost sure that with that cost along with the rotors and calipers it's a bit too much for me.

That puts me back to the X5 50i caliper setup, or if feasible, the E70 X5M setup, if that will fit.
Both will work, but the X5M calipers won't clear 19" wheels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by x3sm View Post
Whats the real way of making the X5 50i caliper work?
Spacers and longer bolts. I've test fit it, just need to finish milling the spacers after final measurements.
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      07-20-2018, 09:16 AM   #152
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Well well well...

So it looks like those of us who want to go to the G30 calipers learned two things today:
1. There will be more used availability/source for these for us (Salvage yards, Ebay, etc)
2. We will be able to buy them at a Toyota dealer.














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      07-20-2018, 10:24 AM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hardparker View Post
Both will work, but the X5M calipers won't clear 19" wheels.

Spacers and longer bolts. I've test fit it, just need to finish milling the spacers after final measurements.
Will you be able to get a few sets produced?

Thanks
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      07-20-2018, 02:11 PM   #154
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So when the F30 and F15/F16 guys upgrade their brakes they say coding makes a huge difference:

https://f15.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1178827

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1146622

The coding procedure on an F30:

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=929406

Do we have the option to code for this SPBR, SPBR_18_ZOLL_SPORTBRAKE?
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