[MrItaly]

Tire pressure will greatly impact your experience. I discovered that on empty Italian autostrada. The vehicle is rock solid at max speeds when the tires are properly inflated. Anything less than that is quite scary at the high end of this car.

[FrankieNuo]

Originally Posted by secretariat

Soul my 1994 bmw 3 series is pretty much the definition of soul. One with the vehicle, I drove the car it didn't drive me. Hydraulic steering system felt everything on the road, knew exactly what my tires were doing. Definetly not a "pig". Confidence inspiring, made me a better driver. There that's my definition of soul. BMW lost that years ago no doubt. Being able to go fast 0-60 or 1/4 mile seems to be the criteria today. Going fast without any feel sucks.

By that definition, every single car and manufacturer has lost its soul. I understand what you're saying regarding cars not being as raw as they once were, but let's be real, there better in just about every other aspect.

[pluckydks]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

I’ve spent over twenty years of my life in Germany and 150 mph is a pretty common speed for BMW/Merc/Audi/Porsche cars on some parts of the Autobahn (e.g. A7 between Hannover and Frankfurt). I haven’t had any aerodynamic lift issues with my F82.

I was in Germany for the first 7500+ miles of the car and it had no issues going at autobahn speeds

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by pluckydks

I was in Germany for the first 7500+ miles of the car and it had no issues going at autobahn speeds

I once drove a Ford Galaxy van at 110 mph. Now that shit was scary.

[BDO]

Those gloves are max cringe.

[MrItaly]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

I once drove a Ford Galaxy van at 110 mph. Now that shit was scary.

Those euro spec vans haull ass, though. Well, for a van, I mean. I remember a Mercedes Sprinter that was flying keeping pace with me in the Brenner pass a decade ago. Very different from your classic American cargo van.

[BobBeau]

I drove one of these at an M event. It was pretty anticlimactic. It's raw but, at the same time, underwhelming. I can see the appeal for a road course but definitely not a daily driver.

[pluckydks]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

I once drove a Ford Galaxy van at 110 mph. Now that shit was scary.

Originally Posted by MrItaly

Those euro spec vans haull ass, though. Well, for a van, I mean. I remember a Mercedes Sprinter that was flying keeping pace with me in the Brenner pass a decade ago. Very different from your classic American cargo van.

Prior to current career, I was an EMT in LA. I used to have to drive a Sprinter around on LA roads. That was scary

[Rapcat]

Originally Posted by paliknight

Dont know what to tell you. That was my experience with my F80 and it only had about 500 miles on it. At 150 it was extremely wobbly and required massive steering correction constantly. Felt like I would have taken off had I sped up a bit more.

At 500 miles those tires are too fresh to have decent grip and stability. Had the same issue on my M2. Gotta get them worn in a bit and warmed up a few times.

[paliknight]

Originally Posted by Rapcat

At 500 miles those tires are too fresh to have decent grip and stability. Had the same issue on my M2. Gotta get them worn in a bit and warmed up a few times.

They were definitely warmed up, but also new so maybe that was part of the issue. I was surprised because I was fairly confident the M3 would be stable at those speeds.

[Jbravo33]

It's a nice car.... for your girl.

[FrankieNuo]

Originally Posted by Jbravo33

It's a nice car.... for your girl.

Your right this and a convertible, perfect chick cars.

[RedScytheM3]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

How does one define "soul"? I would wager that we all have different criteria. Is a soulless car one that basically drives itself and doesn't require any real tactile involvement? Is a soulless car one without mechanical issues that give it character?

Let some tell it, the outgoing M3/4 has/had no soul either. The E9X gained soul after it was discontinued. Prior to that, it was considered many things, but full of soul wasn't one of them. The E46 M3 gained its soul after it was discontinued too. It was a heavy pig before that.

So what really is soul?!?

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Sooooo, why aren't you driving the 1994 BMW 3? Was it an automatic or a 6MT? I find it hard to label any automatic vehicle soulful.

Originally Posted by FrankieNuo

By that definition, every single car and manufacturer has lost its soul. I understand what you're saying regarding cars not being as raw as they once were, but let's be real, there better in just about every other aspect.

What I've come to learn from the E92 M3 forums is this 'soul' everyone keeps talking about is really nostalgia. I read their posts about getting excited to find a 'unicorn' with no options, no nav, nothing - and think 'wtf?' Or perhaps a preference for a grittier ride with leaking hydraulic steering systems is what soul is? I just roll my eyes when I see someone talk about a cars soul

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Well plenty of people have formed a similar consensus so it didn't come out of nowhere. Most people who've experienced the E-chassis models know that something is missing from the newer cars. Those old cars would get destroyed from 0-60 and around a track by the new models. But moving fast in an isolation chamber with no feedback from the road isn't a particularly engaging experience.

I don't feel that the F8X lacks feel nor engagement. It communicates well. "Feel" is as subjective as looks and sound are.

I realized very quickly how topics like hydraulic steering are really over emphasized and romanticized. Years ago I jumped from my '14 F-Series 335i M Sport into my ex-Girlfriend's '11 135i M-Sport and wondered what the hydraulic hype was all about. I much preferred the newer steering. The hydraulic steering was heavy, a pain in the ass at slow speeds and nearly indistinguishable at freeway and track speeds to me.

[M3GymNut]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

How does one define "soul"? I would wager that we all have different criteria. Is a soulless car one that basically drives itself and doesn't require any real tactile involvement? Is a soulless car one without mechanical issues that give it character?

Let some tell it, the outgoing M3/4 has/had no soul either. The E9X gained soul after it was discontinued. Prior to that, it was considered many things, but full of soul wasn't one of them. The E46 M3 gained its soul after it was discontinued too. It was a heavy pig before that.

So what really is soul?!?

I honestly think what people refer to as "Soul" is one's own personal connection and/or feeling with the car and the road as they drive. Soul in my opinion is subjective to the individual.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by M3GymNut

I honestly think what people refer to as "Soul" is one's own personal connection and/or feeling with the car and the road as they drive. Soul in my opinion is subjective to the individual.

I absolutely agree, as are most of the definitive declarations people make. About the only thing that isn't subjective is objective measured performance data.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I don't feel that the F8X lacks feel nor engagement. It communicates well. "Feel" is as subjective as looks and sound are.

I realized very quickly how topics like hydraulic steering are really over emphasized and romanticized. Years ago I jumped from my '14 F-Series 335i M Sport into my ex-Girlfriend's '11 135i M-Sport and wondered what the hydraulic hype was all about. I much preferred the newer steering. The hydraulic steering was heavy, a pain in the ass at slow speeds and nearly indistinguishable at freeway and track speeds to me.

Well to each their own, there's no right answer. And objectively speaking these electric steering racks on modern BMWs and Porsches are faster and more precise. Dialing out the road "feel" so many of us cherish allows the car to be unfazed by road imperfections. No more pull drift/tramlining, easier to drive at high speeds.

But a lot of us would happily trade that for the sensation of the wheel being directly connected to the front wheels. Feeling the road imperfections in a straight line, along with the resistance of the tires fighting us in turns is a very confidence-inspiring sensation. When all these "imperfections" vehicle are engineered out, the connection between the car and driver is gone. And also gone in the process is the characteristic way BMW's used to drive.

[ginginha]

Originally Posted by paliknight

Unless it's aerodynamics are better than the F80, I would NOT be driving that fast. I had a hard time controlling the F80 at 150MPH due to aerodynamic lift at higher speeds, I can't imagine this thing

Interesting experience. I took my F80 over 150 several times on the autobahn during my ED and didn't get that sense at all. Never bumped off a limiter, but I got it somewhere between 165 and 170 (didn't want to look down too long). The only thing I noticed was the rear view mirror vibrated a lot. Otherwise, it was super stable and didn't get any sort of lift.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Well to each their own, there's no right answer. And objectively speaking these electric steering racks on modern BMWs and Porsches are faster and more precise. Dialing out the road "feel" so many of us cherish allows the car to be unfazed by road imperfections. No more pull drift/tramlining, easier to drive at high speeds.

But a lot of us would happily trade that for the sensation of the wheel being directly connected to the front wheels. Feeling the road imperfections in a straight line, along with the resistance of the tires fighting us in turns is a very confidence-inspiring sensation. When all these "imperfections" vehicle are engineered out, the connection between the car and driver is gone. And also gone in the process is the characteristic way BMW's used to drive.

That's easily solved. Drive an older car.

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

That's easily solved. Drive an older car.

Or a bicycle. Perfect road feel 👌

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

Or a bicycle. Perfect road feel 👌

Next thing they'll be saying is today's bikes are too easy to ride. Too many gears and not enough struggle; bearings too good in the front tube. Gone are the days where we used to feel everything through the chromoly front forks and handlebars. Bring back the Huffy Sonic-6.

[paliknight]

Originally Posted by ginginha

Interesting experience. I took my F80 over 150 several times on the autobahn during my ED and didn't get that sense at all. Never bumped off a limiter, but I got it somewhere between 165 and 170 (didn't want to look down too long). The only thing I noticed was the rear view mirror vibrated a lot. Otherwise, it was super stable and didn't get any sort of lift.

This is what I don't understand. It could be due to the tires being new, like the other poster said. Now I'm really curious to test this again and see, but I unfortunately sold my car.