[neliconcept]

I don't see how they could release the F-Pace SVR with that much horsepower it will compete with the Range Rover SVR that has 575 hp. Yes I know it's Jaguar but they are both under the same umbrella, I would expect it to have closer to 460-500 at most.

[Max Well]

Originally Posted by neliconcept

I don't see how they could release the F-Pace SVR with that much horsepower it will compete with the Range Rover SVR that has 575 hp. Yes I know it's Jaguar but they are both under the same umbrella, I would expect it to have closer to 460-500 at most.

Perhaps, neliconcept, but there are a number of online reports suggesting otherwise. If this pans out it'll be interesting to see how BMW counters. Granted not everything in a vehicle is about the power (handling, reliability, interior, etc), but in this class it is something folks look at.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/20...py-photos-news

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/...hots-and-video

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/jaguar/...svr-shaping-up

https://carbuzz.com/news/575-hp-jagu...-new-york-2018

[TxHornX3M40iGuy]

New Dyno numbers by Dinan on the X3 M40i suggest way more underrating on BMW's part for the hp/torque numbers. 445/440 is what they got at the crank. That's pretty crazy.

[Max Well]

Originally Posted by TxHornX3M40iGuy

New Dyno numbers by Dinan on the X3 M40i suggest way more underrating on BMW's part for the hp/torque numbers. 445/440 is what they got at the crank. That's pretty crazy.

Thanks, TxHorn. I've seen their dyno graphs but not quite sure what to make of them as the crank and wheel HP numbers they report don't seem to fit with what I'm seeing in the Simulations I've run. As I've indicated many times I am by no means an expert in those calculations, but they've been fairly accurate across a number of different platforms and from a variety of Mnfrs so far.

The sim uses the HPs reported as being at the crank, then uses an efficiency of transfer to the wheels of 80%. The resulting curves have been able to match real-life data fairly well at the upper speed ranges (F25, F26, F30 and now the G01). So it'll definitely be interesting to see some other dyno reports to see if they reproduce Dinan's findings.

I also had a chance to run the Jaguar F-Pace SVR which, at least in the sim, edges the hypothetical X3M if it arrives with 490 HP. And I've included emmanuelyoo's and GT500R's drag points as reference as well. Note the Sim uses sea level (and their drag data had varying DAs).

[Max Well]

Have added the SVR and a few other data updates I've come across over the past few months. Corrections (with references) are welcomed if outdated info is noted, as it's difficult to stay current on every model. Rather than uploading multiple charts sorted on the different columns, I've opted to simplify and to sort based on the global P-SAVIE figure. The SVR is now in the No.2 position in that ranking, thanks to it's low Wt/HP ratio and large cargo volume.

[GT500R]

Originally Posted by Max Well

Thanks, TxHorn. I've seen their dyno graphs but not quite sure what to make of them as the crank and wheel HP numbers they report don't seem to fit with what I'm seeing in the Simulations I've run. As I've indicated many times I am by no means an expert in those calculations, but they've been fairly accurate across a number of different platforms and from a variety of Mnfrs so far.

The sim uses the HPs reported as being at the crank, then uses an efficiency of transfer to the wheels of 80%. The resulting curves have been able to match real-life data fairly well at the upper speed ranges (F25, F26, F30 and now the G01). So it'll definitely be interesting to see some other dyno reports to see if they reproduce Dinan's findings.

I also had a chance to run the Jaguar F-Pace SVR which, at least in the sim, edges the hypothetical X3M if it arrives with 490 HP. And I've included emmanuelyoo's and GT500R's drag points as reference as well. Note the Sim uses sea level (and their drag data had varying DAs).

Possible to add in the latest 1/4 mile time I have for drag points for sea level? With the tune (approx. 460 hp?) not sure how much hp I have to be honest.

[5against8]

Max Well This is a great data set, thanks for putting it together! Any thought of further enhancing P-SAVIE w/ handling? e.g. maybe divide by the skidpad result? Should be available for most (of course not yet for X3M/X4M, very very interested to see these of course). C/D has been adding this to performance SAV tests for awhile now.

[Transfer]

Pretty cool, nice work. Shouldn't X3M be more in the 4300-4400 lb range?

[Max Well]

Originally Posted by GT500R

Possible to add in the latest 1/4 mile time I have for drag points for sea level? With the tune (approx. 460 hp?) not sure how much hp I have to be honest.

Looking at your runs from 12 Oct 2018 summarized in the G01 ¼ Mile Thread, https://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1397744 , they essentially superimpose on emyoo’s just above the 400 HP sim curve, so about 55+/- crank HP higher than the stock G01 at 355. He had 12.32s/110.45mph 6 Sep 2018 with his JB4 Map5 at DA +886, and you were 12.38s/110.02mph at DA-123. Remember the sim is an approximated construct so wouldn’t view it as gospel. I'll post an updated graph in that thread to keep this one focused on the X3M.

Originally Posted by 5against8

Max Well This is a great data set, thanks for putting it together! Any thought of further enhancing P-SAVIE w/ handling? e.g. maybe divide by the skidpad result? Should be available for most (of course not yet for X3M/X4M, very very interested to see these of course). C/D has been adding this to performance SAV tests for awhile now.

That’s certainly a thought, 5against8. As the data chart is already complex with a lot of columns I felt it best to keep it manageable without getting into the handling aspects such as braking and skidpad. But a separate chart looking at some of those parameters would be interesting, and then somehow combining it with the P-SAVIE perhaps.

Originally Posted by Transfer

Pretty cool, nice work. Shouldn't X3M be more in the 4300-4400 lb range?

The X3M’s hypothetical weight came from a discussion last year in beammeupscottie’s thread, https://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1434391. MN2///M suggested BMW will attempt to maximize weight savings in the M variant, thereby coming in less than the G01. But it’s possible this won’t happen and the M will arrive more in the weight range you suggest. If that occurs, then it seems BMW should seriously consider 500 HP as the base minimum to remain competitive.

[Max Well]

After watching this Qtr mile race between a Tesla Model X P100D, Lamborghini Urus, MB AMG G63, and RR Sport SVR, it seemed reasonable to compile the Tesla's data into the summary chart. This is my first time researching the Model X so it caught me by surprise. It now tops the P-SAVIE given it's high HP, insanely quick 0-60s, good-sized cargo vol, and remarkable aerodynamics with a Cd of only 0.25.

[Max Well]

Have been wondering when Maserati would up their game - they have introduced two new models, the GTS and Trofeo with 550HP and 590HP, respectively. Also updated a few more data entries (including qtr mile speed for the Urus). 500HP is beginning to look like a ho-hum average in this segment now as the competition continues to ramp up...

[beammeupscottie]

Originally Posted by Max Well

Here are the simulation runs for the X3M at 460 HP and 490 HP with the other numbers as discussed in the thread by beammeupscottie, 'X3M V8' [ http://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1434391 ]. As with the other runs it has difficulty handling the first 2 sec or so because of the complex friction variables which come into play at takeoff (sub-4 is likely), but should be reasonably consistent at the higher speeds.

Thanks for your hard work! Looks like there is a go for production start in March....

[Max Well]

Originally Posted by beammeupscottie

Thanks for your hard work! Looks like there is a go for production start in March....

Thanks - it's been an interesting data set to follow.

Looking forward to March - as the competitive bar has risen during the past year, that magic 500HP number we've been hoping for as a minimum no longer seems far-fetched. I remember Franc Van Meel's comments about the engine in his introduction of the X3/4 back in Sep ( https://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1533447 ). At the 1:07-1:32 time marks he discusses it, indicating, "First of all it's about the powertrain... and also it's going to exceed what you know from our competitors."

The 550HP SVR was already unveiled by that time, and considering it is probably the closest true form competitor to the X3, I'm curious if he really meant that literally. If so, a ZCP with a CFRP roof, less weight than the G01 M40i and this power would be a tough vehicle to beat. Period.

[beammeupscottie]

Originally Posted by Max Well

Thanks - it's been an interesting data set to follow.

Looking forward to March - as the competitive bar has risen during the past year, that magic 500HP number we've been hoping for as a minimum no longer seems far-fetched. I remember Franc Van Meel's comments about the engine in his introduction of the X3/4 back in Sep ( https://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1533447 ). At the 1:07-1:32 time marks he discusses it, indicating, "First of all it's about the powertrain... and also it's going to exceed what you know from our competitors."

The 550HP SVR was already unveiled by that time, and considering it is probably the closest true form competitor to the X3, I'm curious if he really meant that literally. If so, a ZCP with a CFRP roof, less weight than the G01 M40i and this power would be a tough vehicle to beat. Period.

Surely ZCP will be the direct competition to what's been released thus far....I may skip the comp package since it's going to be a daily driver but it sure will be a beast...

[Max Well]

As the pre-March doldrums continue wanted to share another performance video of the competition (Levante Trofeo), although at $170K it's rival is probably more along the lines of the Urus. Still, wonder how far off a ZCP would be at a track, esp if they can keep the weight down.

[kozzi]

Originally Posted by Max Well

As the pre-March doldrums continue wanted to share another performance video of the competition (Levante Trofeo), although at $170K it's rival is probably more along the lines of the Urus. Still, wonder how far off a ZCP would be at a track, esp if they can keep the weight down.

IMO, the best interior in class. Had a chance to check out a friends white metallic GTS with Rosso interior. Absolutley beautiful. A bit out of my price range but certainly checks all the boxes.

[Max Well]

Updated chart - removed the hypothetical X3M @ 460HP and added MB's GLE AMG 63 S models. This field is becoming so crowded and competitive I'm going to start dropping the lowest branches to keep it manageable at 35 of the top in the P-SAVIE. As always - if newer info is known, please share and provide reference.

[kozzi]

Originally Posted by Max Well

Updated chart - removed the hypothetical X3M @ 460HP and added MB's GLE AMG 63 S models. This field is becoming so crowded and competitive I'm going to start dropping the lowest branches to keep it manageable at 35 of the top in the P-SAVIE. As always - if newer info is known, please share and provide reference.

Crowded indeed. You may consider creating two charts. One for the X3M class (mid sized) and one for the X5M class (full sized). I think this would allow all the data you collected to remain and still have a quick reference guide for individuals to compare vehicle statistics per class.

As always, your analysis and input is greatly appreciated.

[kozzi]

May be old news but man are things going to change quick lol.

"Product planning boss Hanno Kirner, in an interview with the British publication Autocar, suggested that an I-Pace SVR would theoretically make sense in the lineup. But there is one problem: the company is worried that, if produced, it could be too powerful for the average consumer. Kirner suggests it would be able to hit 60 miles per hour (96 kilometers per hour) in less than two seconds."

https://www.motor1.com/news/243412/j...ace-svr-power/

[Max Well]

Originally Posted by kozzi

May be old news but man are things going to change quick lol.

"Product planning boss Hanno Kirner, in an interview with the British publication Autocar, suggested that an I-Pace SVR would theoretically make sense in the lineup. But there is one problem: the company is worried that, if produced, it could be too powerful for the average consumer. Kirner suggests it would be able to hit 60 miles per hour (96 kilometers per hour) in less than two seconds."

https://www.motor1.com/news/243412/j...ace-svr-power/

Thanks for sharing, kozzi. Still on the fence as to how current (no pun intended, really) full electric technology will meet the needs of the 'average' buyer as conditions now stand. While (whilst) I appreciate the urgency of environmental needs, it seems our future brethren will look upon this time as quite primitive with the heavy batteries and chemistry needed to drive these remarkable vehicles. It is a step in the right direction for sure, to keep all of us on point as to how today's decisions may affect future generations, so in a way, are we at the juncture of our past - is this akin to motorized transportation replacing horse-drawn back in the '20s?

I recall back in the early '80s with PC technology, where our 386-25MHz with optioned 80MB hard-drive was the talk of the shop when it arrived... I feel ancient thinking back on that now.

Suspect this infancy of E vehicles will progress, possibly in parallel with H and (?), but for now, especially until the support grid and re-charging times match with life's time requirements, many will remain as observers to the match.

[Max Well]

Aston Martin has updated their site to begin sharing some camo videos of it's SUV performance entry: https://www.astonmartin.com/en-us/mo...ure-models/dbx

Though it will most likely be in the upper atmosphere in this class, still interested in seeing all of the new players enter the mix. Competition can only help to sharpen everybody's game...

[Max Well]

Much appreciation to Nate at IND for providing what I believe to be the first documented Qtr mile time for the X3M Comp [ https://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=17 ].

Using data from airdensityonline.com, it appears the DA was quite high at +2388, so the numbers he obtained are very promising for this performance SAV. To provide some perspective, I also share GT500R's stock and modified data for his 2018 G01 X3 M40i [ https://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1397744 ].

It would be helpful to know if he ran with the spare tire in back and what fuel load (and ideally the actual weight if available), but almost a guarantee that the dyno results are going to be higher than the reported 503 HP. To look at that, I plotted the Sim using the correct Cd (0.36), frontal area and used the conservative EU unladen weight for the X3MC to run the data. It has usually been fairly solid with most of the stock vehicles (see GT500R's stock run c/w the G01 M40i's Sim curve), but even with this really high DA, Nate was able to place well above the curve. As noushy suggested in a recent post [ https://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=25 ], I wouldn't be surprised if it is more in the range of 530-540 HP.

Will be interested in seeing more of IND's posts on their findings.