[DCG]

Great BMW, about time.

But why not have it look like the standard X3? It would sell way better to the general public.

The iX3's exterior styling pictured in the original post is extremely week, dated!

[Suds]

Nice mustache! Is that a throw back to earlier German styling?

[DCG]

If it doesn't look cool and futuristic and kick ass, it's NOT going to sell well regardless how of high-tech and great it maybe.

Electric can be sexy, so make it so.

[evanevery]

Originally Posted by TajoMan

Which means their range estimation is very conservative. (which is good thing for sure)

In 90F weather, AC will use about 3~4 kW (5~7 hp).
When a car cruises at 70 mph, it uses about 30 hp. So AC consumes about 20% of total power which is a lot.

For the same temperature delta, heater will use about 2~3 times more power than AC.

HVAC in electric car is very challenging. More problem than actual drive motor/inverter.

No, their range estimation has always been pretty reliable...

I also drive from Milwaukee to Chicago and back on occasion (90 mi each way) on a single charge and the range estimate has always been relatively accurate (all 4 seasons...)

[evanevery]

Originally Posted by -c-

Yea we looked at the Tesla in the store and it's fit and finish is sub par and details are very under finished for its price point. The model S interior IP reminds me of a supplier trying to showcase their digital gauges and it just feels sort of sterile. Now that's just my opinion and not to be taken as fact as everyone's got one.

Plus the act of selling more of a car doesn't make you better.

Teslas the only option right now for decent electric mobility.

Once everyone else's electric cars hit the market like Bmw Audi and Porsche and Volvo etc, if Tesla can't make a profit now they won't then as those companies will be stealing more and more customers away from Tesla.

Tesla's also plagued with dealer supply issues, a friend of mine has been without his car for months as they are waiting on parts. And no loaner. Say what you want but the part of loving what you own is knowing if I do break down I have a dealer network that will have me back up and running ASAP, and have a loaner. Tesla can't guarantee that, and if I breakdown during one of those "road trips" good luck! Tesla's dealers aren't as plentiful as a Bmw or Chevy dealer scattered all over the nation.

I love that they helped the market along but not sure if they will be around. Time will tell.

Mostly the fanboys and investors will tell you their the best thing since sliced bread and their nice yes as a new player in town but after driving the model 3 and having to search menus and such on the screen it's not practical and their simplicity and cost reduction missed the mark. Needs a HUD at a minimum.

Even CR now show them way below average when they used to be on top.

And with musk and his tweets lately I think the stress is getting to him.

I've even heard the truck got shelved until they can rid themselves of the model 3 setbacks and build quality issues.


It's not easy to build a successful car company in today's world and hats off to them, but they still have a ways to go.

If I had to buy an electric car today, it be a Tesla but if I'm honest I'll hold off and see the other offerings as it seems like it's going to get exciting in the coming few years!

"Mostly the fanboys and investors will tell you their the best thing since sliced bread..."

Yes, because most Tesla owners are VERY happy with their cars. What is wrong with that. All things said and done, isn't that what is most important? Tesla had over 440,000 PAID reservations on the Model 3 before it even went into production. That's pretty successful by anyone's metric. People must want/like these cars for SOME reason. Why do you feel so defensive about it?

That's quite a rant you have, but why do you seem to feel that Tesla must "lose" in order for BMW to "win"? BMW is on a very encouraging path here with a 200+ mile EV. That's something very positive (IMHO). Why do you feel you have to sh*t on Tesla to make your point? Have you owned a Tesla?

I'm on my third EV (Volt, Tesla MX, i8 Roadster). I've had many BMW's and the Model X (my daily driver) is one of my favorite cars of all time.

Whats wrong with that?

[ted99]

I'll leave the pro/anti Tesla arguments for others. I'm on my third electric car. i3, 330e, and X5 40e. My observations on many of the preceding constructive comments:
1) A PHEV, while a compromise with both an ICE and electric powertrain, makes sense with the current state of high-capacity charging infrastructure and on-board charging rates. My wife's X5 40e just returned 35 MPG in a 6000 mi road trip, with no charging and 50% of her local driving is electric with the 16 mi electric range. It would be 100% with a 30 mi range. Having a car like this makes it easy to have a local use only i3.
2) I charge at home, exclusively, but I was the first-in to install my own charger in our condo. Others may not be so lucky to be able to install a home charger. This is where a 200-250 mi range is useful, even for local use. It means one can use a public charger once a week while at the grocery store--my nearest grocery store has two DC public charging stations and the VW "Electrify America" should improve this situation.

I hope BMW is looking for an alternative assembly point for this car. If the China car tariffs continue, it'll never make it in the US. Volvo has shifted XC60 production for the US from China back to Gothenburg--thankfully, they never went exclusively with China, as BMW has announced for the iX3. I'm a potential buyer for the iX3 when the X5 40e lease ends (11/2020), but not if it's a China car. I also love the Jag i-pace and thankfully, I'll see a year's on-road experience for it before I pull the pin. Jag reliability (actually unreliability) is concerning. If I go for an all-electric SUV-like vehicle with a 20" fording capability (Houston rainstorms) for my wife, I'll probably get a 535e to replace my 330e as the "trip" car. In the US, these are priced the same as the full ICE 530i and it will do for 100% of my usual in-town use plus be a superb road trip car..

[DonC]

I have a 2013 X3 3.5 MS and a 2018 i3S - I like both.

[TajoMan]

Originally Posted by evanevery

No, their range estimation has always been pretty reliable...

I also drive from Milwaukee to Chicago and back on occasion (90 mi each way) on a single charge and the range estimate has always been relatively accurate (all 4 seasons...)

How do you know the range estimation is accurate?
Have you driven it until 0 mile range in different ambient conditions?

[CommanderChange]

Originally Posted by Yobyot

Notice that the sunroof is open -- Germany is on fire this summer due to drought and I'll bet the AC draws too much power.

That's my big fear of owning an EV in a place like New England. Yesterday, it was 98 degrees and kids were being sent home early from school due to the heat. In February, on some days you nose hairs freeze as soon as you step outside.

That would sap range in an EV pretty quick.

I think this is more due to the fact that Germans hate air conditioning and anything to do with it rather than a range issue... at least in this particular instance.

Source: Have spent long, hot summers in an air condition-less Germany.

[evanevery]

Originally Posted by TajoMan

How do you know the range estimation is accurate?
Have you driven it until 0 mile range in different ambient conditions?

Its not rocket science and you don't have to drive it down to zero...

Because, as I drive a mile, the remaining range goes down a mile. If I take a relatively long trip (200 miles), I will have approximately the exact range left as it was reporting when I started (minus the associated 200 miles). I've driven down to Chicago in the heat of Summer and the cold of Winter. I've pulled it down to probably 30 miles or so... It would be stupid to pull the car all the way down to zero as it would be effectively done at that point...

Why do you want to think the car is lying about the range?

[TajoMan]

Originally Posted by evanevery

Its not rocket science and you don't have to drive it down to zero...

Because, as I drive a mile, the remaining range goes down a mile. If I take a relatively long trip (200 miles), I will have approximately the exact range left as it was reporting when I started (minus the associated 200 miles). I've driven down to Chicago in the heat of Summer and the cold of Winter. I've pulled it down to probably 30 miles or so... It would be stupid to pull the car all the way down to zero as it would be effectively done at that point...

Why do you want to think the car is lying about the range?

Even the gasoline car still have fuel reserves at 0 miles left on range estimate.
your car indicating 30 miles left is really 30 miles left? or minimum 30 miles left?
You may be able to go 50 more miles when it indicates 0 miles left.

That's why I said it's probably very conservative. (again, which is good)

It's better to give you less indicated range then what it actually has, so you don't run out of juice in the middle of nowhere.

[evanevery]

Originally Posted by TajoMan

Even the gasoline car still have fuel reserves at 0 miles left on range estimate.
your car indicating 30 miles left is really 30 miles left? or minimum 30 miles left?
You may be able to go 50 more miles when it indicates 0 miles left.

That's why I said it's probably very conservative. (again, which is good)

It's better to give you less indicated range then what it actually has, so you don't run out of juice in the middle of nowhere.

Typically, what EV's do is a little different. They will go into a low power limp mode as the range gets close to zero. Its an obvious, power saving, cue for the driver to find a power source ASAP. Although most EV's carry a 120V charging cable in the trunk for emergencies, EV drivers don't generally operate with this type of disregard. If you've got 30 miles left, and you need to drive more than that, you better already have a plan...

[EL Jeffe 5]

Originally Posted by eDrive

BMW better hurry up because they are way behind Tesla.

Tesla is done in 5 years

[raysspl]

Originally Posted by jwong77

Anybody spot where the charging port door is?

I didn't see it either

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by ted99

I'll leave the pro/anti Tesla arguments for others. I'm on my third electric car. i3, 330e, and X5 40e. My observations on many of the preceding constructive comments:
1) A PHEV, while a compromise with both an ICE and electric powertrain, makes sense with the current state of high-capacity charging infrastructure and on-board charging rates. My wife's X5 40e just returned 35 MPG in a 6000 mi road trip, with no charging and 50% of her local driving is electric with the 16 mi electric range. It would be 100% with a 30 mi range. Having a car like this makes it easy to have a local use only i3.
2) I charge at home, exclusively, but I was the first-in to install my own charger in our condo. Others may not be so lucky to be able to install a home charger. This is where a 200-250 mi range is useful, even for local use. It means one can use a public charger once a week while at the grocery store--my nearest grocery store has two DC public charging stations and the VW "Electrify America" should improve this situation.

I hope BMW is looking for an alternative assembly point for this car. If the China car tariffs continue, it'll never make it in the US. Volvo has shifted XC60 production for the US from China back to Gothenburg--thankfully, they never went exclusively with China, as BMW has announced for the iX3. I'm a potential buyer for the iX3 when the X5 40e lease ends (11/2020), but not if it's a China car. I also love the Jag i-pace and thankfully, I'll see a year's on-road experience for it before I pull the pin. Jag reliability (actually unreliability) is concerning. If I go for an all-electric SUV-like vehicle with a 20" fording capability (Houston rainstorms) for my wife, I'll probably get a 535e to replace my 330e as the "trip" car. In the US, these are priced the same as the full ICE 530i and it will do for 100% of my usual in-town use plus be a superb road trip car..

Don't get the Jag if you are in Houston.

I just saw one of the F paces get water on the floorboards and the dealer totaled it.

I immediately called my friend and told him he needs to be careful as he " upgraded"' from a Jeep Grand Cherokee to the Jag f pace six months ago and he does launch a boat.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by EL Jeffe 5

Tesla is done in 5 years

You might be as well.

[-c-]

Originally Posted by evanevery

"Mostly the fanboys and investors will tell you their the best thing since sliced bread..."

Yes, because most Tesla owners are VERY happy with their cars. What is wrong with that. All things said and done, isn't that what is most important? Tesla had over 440,000 PAID reservations on the Model 3 before it even went into production. That's pretty successful by anyone's metric. People must want/like these cars for SOME reason. Why do you feel so defensive about it?

That's quite a rant you have, but why do you seem to feel that Tesla must "lose" in order for BMW to "win"? BMW is on a very encouraging path here with a 200+ mile EV. That's something very positive (IMHO). Why do you feel you have to sh*t on Tesla to make your point? Have you owned a Tesla?

I'm on my third EV (Volt, Tesla MX, i8 Roadster). I've had many BMW's and the Model X (my daily driver) is one of my favorite cars of all time.

Whats wrong with that?

Yea I agree and nothing wrong with that in the slightest, but I didn't say owners ! I'm talking about the ones that don't own one yet their the ones with the biggest opinions .

Also I never said Tesla must lose for Bmw to win it was never even where I was going and your putting words in my mouth.

It wasn't a rant as I was being subjective and said Tesla's the only game in town for serious ev. But the company is risky. That's fact. I'm also writing on my own experience here in Chicago with the dealership and my work mate who drives a model s and having to see what happens when things go south. Your area may do it better. I have Tesla stock and it's done great for me. But as someone who wants it to succeed I see many roadblocks in the way and instead of focusing on getting their current cars streamlined they are working on to many projects to keep investors satisfied and loosing focus. Instead of drinking the cool-aid like so many I have a different outlook that may be more negative than a "they can do no wrong" mentality. Call it tough love. Your hard on the ones you want to succeed.

They make a great car for what it is but it's getting long in the tooth.

What frustrates me is Tesla's had many years to make profit and a ceo who can never keep a date and now with the rest of the world catching up I see an iPhone scenario.

Apple had the best phone on the market and everyone had to have it but then the rest of the market caught up and even surpassed them in innovation and now theirs great alternatives and their no longer the only option. If Tesla can barely make a profit now they only have a couple more years before the market is flooded with new options and people won't wait the 5 years to get their model 3 ....

Time will tell.

All is good And hugs all around. These text forums suck for conveying feeling so it reads harsher than what I'm saying. If we were talking at the bar with a couple coca colas it be way more fun and a good debate ...

[ted99]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Don't get the Jag if you are in Houston.

I just saw one of the F paces get water on the floorboards and the dealer totaled it.

I immediately called my friend and told him he needs to be careful as he " upgraded"' from a Jeep Grand Cherokee to the Jag f pace six months ago and he does launch a boat.

Obviously concerning. The i-pace claims a 20" fording capability. I haven't researched the ICE SUV's, but one would expect a similar claim. The i-pace is assembled in the Styer-Magna plant in Austria and the build quality may be better than England. I have certainly never been impressed with the build quality of any of my many UK autos. That floorboard water would seem to have come from a leaking door seal, or a leaking floorpan seal. One would have thought that he would have heard the air noise from a loose door seal, so a pan seal is the more likely. That's an assembly problem, much like that I saw from the owners of Rangies when they had to be towed back from my Club's off-roading adventures in Australia. Certainly argues for a lease with a "gap insurance" clause. Planning on leasing, anyway, because this set of cars will be the transition from PHEV's to the i-next generation. BMW screws the lessor of cars with a Fed Tax credit, though. Except for the i3, BMW only passes on a part of the tax credit to the buyer. I know Volvo does the whole amount. Since BMW, Audi and M-B will have all-electric offerings in the fall of 2020, this will be a significant factor for me in deciding which way to go.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by evanevery

Tesla is much further ahead than that. Here's the current stats for 2018:

https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/

Note that this list includes hybrids and not just EV's...

Thanks for all the data !

For this year ... Toyota Prius prime sales was pretty much the equal of the model 3 for the first half of the year however the model 3 sales have been huge the last 3 months.

2018 Tesla production clearly appears to have affected Chevrolet Bolt and Volt sales... which both had very healthy sales in 2017.

Unsurprisingly , there certainly appears to be a large advantage to the New kid on the block when it comes to sales.

[diesel733]

Originally Posted by eDrive

BMW better hurry up because they are way behind Tesla.

Originally Posted by eDrive

BMW better hurry up because they are way behind Tesla.

It's not about being the first. It's about making something that's already here and making it better. Tesla might be first but build quality will always be junk and last even to General Motors.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by diesel733

It's not about being the first. It's about making something that's already here and making it better. Tesla might be first but build quality will always be junk and last even to General Motors.

You must be high.

GM is complete crap.

[JorgenM]

iX3 reservations are now open here in Norway. Each reservation costs NOK 15.000 (approx USD 1800).