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      07-18-2019, 10:57 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kief View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by onfireX5 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kief View Post
Next week is my chance to test drive the X3MC and I'm curious how it compares to my 2018 X5M. However, I'm not sure it will be enough for me to sell the X5M.
I had a 2016 X5M for 2 years and 32,000 miles. Have a F90 . Have a X3M Competition on order. Drove an X3M Comp at M Days.

My quick Dragy comparison has the X5M and X3M Comp very equal pure stock. Probably less than 0.10 separation.

X3M Comp Tech is greatly improved.

That said, I would not trade a 2018 X5M for it if I already owned it. Would be a tougher decision if both were on a lot and I had to choose one. Probably, the X3M Comp.
In addition to my X5M (wifey), I have a M3CS.
X5M is too much for the Mrs, but I'm the car nut and love it! Wifey had an X3 M40i before the X5M, and I'm not seeing enough beyond the M40i to jump into an X3M. But I have to drive it.
We all know kief is buying an x3m comp.
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      07-19-2019, 03:59 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arciga18 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kief View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by onfireX5 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kief View Post
Next week is my chance to test drive the X3MC and I'm curious how it compares to my 2018 X5M. However, I'm not sure it will be enough for me to sell the X5M.
I had a 2016 X5M for 2 years and 32,000 miles. Have a F90 . Have a X3M Competition on order. Drove an X3M Comp at M Days.

My quick Dragy comparison has the X5M and X3M Comp very equal pure stock. Probably less than 0.10 separation.

X3M Comp Tech is greatly improved.

That said, I would not trade a 2018 X5M for it if I already owned it. Would be a tougher decision if both were on a lot and I had to choose one. Probably, the X3M Comp.
In addition to my X5M (wifey), I have a M3CS.
X5M is too much for the Mrs, but I'm the car nut and love it! Wifey had an X3 M40i before the X5M, and I'm not seeing enough beyond the M40i to jump into an X3M. But I have to drive it.
We all know kief is buying an x3m comp.
Lol...just like you're buying a CS, right?
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      07-25-2019, 01:06 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arciga18 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kief View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by onfireX5 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kief View Post
Next week is my chance to test drive the X3MC and I'm curious how it compares to my 2018 X5M. However, I'm not sure it will be enough for me to sell the X5M.
I had a 2016 X5M for 2 years and 32,000 miles. Have a F90 . Have a X3M Competition on order. Drove an X3M Comp at M Days.

My quick Dragy comparison has the X5M and X3M Comp very equal pure stock. Probably less than 0.10 separation.

X3M Comp Tech is greatly improved.

That said, I would not trade a 2018 X5M for it if I already owned it. Would be a tougher decision if both were on a lot and I had to choose one. Probably, the X3M Comp.
In addition to my X5M (wifey), I have a M3CS.
X5M is too much for the Mrs, but I'm the car nut and love it! Wifey had an X3 M40i before the X5M, and I'm not seeing enough beyond the M40i to jump into an X3M. But I have to drive it.
We all know kief is buying an x3m comp.
Just got back from the M Test Drive with the X3M, and my X5M ain't going anywhere! Wasn't that impressed. Really underwhelmed with the auto and lag. And the interior just doesn't compare, although I already knew that.
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      07-25-2019, 01:12 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kief View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by arciga18 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kief View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by onfireX5 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kief View Post
Next week is my chance to test drive the X3MC and I'm curious how it compares to my 2018 X5M. However, I'm not sure it will be enough for me to sell the X5M.
I had a 2016 X5M for 2 years and 32,000 miles. Have a F90 . Have a X3M Competition on order. Drove an X3M Comp at M Days.

My quick Dragy comparison has the X5M and X3M Comp very equal pure stock. Probably less than 0.10 separation.

X3M Comp Tech is greatly improved.

That said, I would not trade a 2018 X5M for it if I already owned it. Would be a tougher decision if both were on a lot and I had to choose one. Probably, the X3M Comp.
In addition to my X5M (wifey), I have a M3CS.
X5M is too much for the Mrs, but I'm the car nut and love it! Wifey had an X3 M40i before the X5M, and I'm not seeing enough beyond the M40i to jump into an X3M. But I have to drive it.
We all know kief is buying an x3m comp.
Just got back from the M Test Drive with the X3M, and my X5M ain't going anywhere! Wasn't that impressed. Really underwhelmed with the auto and lag. And the interior just doesn't compare, although I already knew that.
That's interesting because I'm going today. They are running through Chicago area.


Are there two groups of cars?

I will see how it compares to the retired m40i
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      07-25-2019, 01:42 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arciga18 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kief View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by arciga18 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kief View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by onfireX5 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kief View Post
Next week is my chance to test drive the X3MC and I'm curious how it compares to my 2018 X5M. However, I'm not sure it will be enough for me to sell the X5M.
I had a 2016 X5M for 2 years and 32,000 miles. Have a F90 . Have a X3M Competition on order. Drove an X3M Comp at M Days.

My quick Dragy comparison has the X5M and X3M Comp very equal pure stock. Probably less than 0.10 separation.

X3M Comp Tech is greatly improved.

That said, I would not trade a 2018 X5M for it if I already owned it. Would be a tougher decision if both were on a lot and I had to choose one. Probably, the X3M Comp.
In addition to my X5M (wifey), I have a M3CS.
X5M is too much for the Mrs, but I'm the car nut and love it! Wifey had an X3 M40i before the X5M, and I'm not seeing enough beyond the M40i to jump into an X3M. But I have to drive it.
We all know kief is buying an x3m comp.
Just got back from the M Test Drive with the X3M, and my X5M ain't going anywhere! Wasn't that impressed. Really underwhelmed with the auto and lag. And the interior just doesn't compare, although I already knew that.
That's interesting because I'm going today. They are running through Chicago area.


Are there two groups of cars?

I will see how it compares to the retired m40i
I imagine there are a bunch of groups of cars around the nation. Perhaps I got a bad batch
I will say I was very impressed with the M2C. I previously drove an original M2, but loved this M2C. Maybe an M2CS is in my future.
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      07-25-2019, 08:55 PM   #28
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Drove the x3m comp. my best summary is that it was nice but didn't wow me. Maybe a different color combo could get me more excited.

The m2 comp brought me real joy.

The m5 was very impressive but not for me.

The guys did confirm there are 4 groups of cars on tour. When I pressed them about the m2 that was wrecked he denied it at first and then said he couldn't talk about it.

Disappointed I didn't get any waterbottle/ baseball cap / etc.
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      07-26-2019, 05:42 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arciga18 View Post
Drove the x3m comp. my best summary is that it was nice but didn't wow me. Maybe a different color combo could get me more excited.

The m2 comp brought me real joy.

The m5 was very impressive but not for me.

The guys did confirm there are 4 groups of cars on tour. When I pressed them about the m2 that was wrecked he denied it at first and then said he couldn't talk about it.

Disappointed I didn't get any waterbottle/ baseball cap / etc.
I think your impression of the X3M says a lot about just how good our previous M40is were. I'd be more interested (maybe) in next years M40i's bump in hp, Merino leather, M seats, etc...

Yeah, the M2C was fantastic! What's the story about the wreck one, must of missed that here?

Yesterday, the M5C wasn't there, apparently some other corporate event. But I did get a nice swell bottle.
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      07-26-2019, 06:39 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kief View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by arciga18 View Post
Drove the x3m comp. my best summary is that it was nice but didn't wow me. Maybe a different color combo could get me more excited.

The m2 comp brought me real joy.

The m5 was very impressive but not for me.

The guys did confirm there are 4 groups of cars on tour. When I pressed them about the m2 that was wrecked he denied it at first and then said he couldn't talk about it.

Disappointed I didn't get any waterbottle/ baseball cap / etc.
I think your impression of the X3M says a lot about just how good our previous M40is were. I'd be more interested (maybe) in next years M40i's bump in hp, Merino leather, M seats, etc...

Yeah, the M2C was fantastic! What's the story about the wreck one, must of missed that here?

Yesterday, the M5C wasn't there, apparently some other corporate event. But I did get a nice swell bottle.
It felt like they were lying about bottles .
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      07-27-2019, 10:33 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by beammeupscottie View Post
I finally test drove the X3MC today....and I'm impressed. Coming out of a 2017 X5M. This new engine is potent enough. This feels as fast as X5M (imo) perhaps only in the mind. 567HP, 553lb-ft torque vs 503HP, 442lb-ft clearly a difference; but the real world feel isn't that big of a difference to me.

As an everyday driver this feels lighter and less bulky which I'm looking for yet still lightening fast. Faster than most vehicles on the road. I had to ask do I need any more HP? Nah. At some point it becomes excessive power that can't be accessed on everyday drives. I will never track this vehicle, so.....to each his/her own.
The only disappointment was no alcantara headliner. The bump in the trunk for the spare didn't bother me.
Styling is classy and modern but not cutting edge like a Macan or other brands. The seats were comfortable and supportive. The ride quality was firm and sure footed. The tech is outstanding. I'll be ordering ALPINE WHITE w/Sahkir Orange Extended Merino. Finally a payment of $975 w/tax is far better than $1360/tax...

Good luck all.
Nice! Exactly the same spec I just ordered.
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      07-27-2019, 12:04 PM   #32
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I totally agree the only question is what MF did you get and how? At 15k/miles and 185MF with a solid discount and loyalty with tax my payment was $1250. If I did 7 security deposits it would be close to $1200. If i dropped the miles to 10k still would be over $1100. Granted I also have a comp with basically every option so fill me in.

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      07-27-2019, 02:36 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noushy View Post
I totally agree the only question is what MF did you get and how? At 15k/miles and 185MF with a solid discount and loyalty with tax my payment was $1250. If I did 7 security deposits it would be close to $1200. If i dropped the miles to 10k still would be over $1100. Granted I also have a comp with basically every option so fill me in.

Noushy
Your MF seems a bit high...they must've padded it for profit?

Mine is
MF .00145
Discount off;
MSRP is $4500 + loyalty 1500
12k miles 57% residual
Comp package, Executive package, and ventilated seats.
With drive offs only $3088 it was $1110 w/tax
I'll likely put an additional 6500 + initial drive offs which gets me to 973 including tax (my tax rate 7.75%)

My 2017 X5M was $1360 w/tax
MF .00125
12k miles I believe residual was 58%
7500 drive off and down.
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      07-27-2019, 04:51 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beammeupscottie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by noushy View Post
I totally agree the only question is what MF did you get and how? At 15k/miles and 185MF with a solid discount and loyalty with tax my payment was $1250. If I did 7 security deposits it would be close to $1200. If i dropped the miles to 10k still would be over $1100. Granted I also have a comp with basically every option so fill me in.

Noushy
Your MF seems a bit high...they must've padded it for profit?

Mine is
MF .00145
Discount off;
MSRP is $4500 + loyalty 1500
12k miles 57% residual
Comp package, Executive package, and ventilated seats.
With drive offs only $3088 it was $1110 w/tax
I'll likely put an additional 6500 + initial drive offs which gets me to 973 including tax (my tax rate 7.75%)

My 2017 X5M was $1360 w/tax
MF .00125
12k miles I believe residual was 58%
7500 drive off and down.
Yes they pad the MF 40 points. But the residual at 15k miles is 55% and my discount was around $3600. You basically got the entire 6.2% margin off which is almost unheard of on an allocated new model. I did have around $2500 in dealership loyalty money so that paid the up front costs but the MF cost me $40 a month or around $1500.

Noushy
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      07-27-2019, 07:40 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noushy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by beammeupscottie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by noushy View Post
I totally agree the only question is what MF did you get and how? At 15k/miles and 185MF with a solid discount and loyalty with tax my payment was $1250. If I did 7 security deposits it would be close to $1200. If i dropped the miles to 10k still would be over $1100. Granted I also have a comp with basically every option so fill me in.

Noushy
Your MF seems a bit high...they must've padded it for profit?

Mine is
MF .00145
Discount off;
MSRP is $4500 + loyalty 1500
12k miles 57% residual
Comp package, Executive package, and ventilated seats.
With drive offs only $3088 it was $1110 w/tax
I'll likely put an additional 6500 + initial drive offs which gets me to 973 including tax (my tax rate 7.75%)

My 2017 X5M was $1360 w/tax
MF .00125
12k miles I believe residual was 58%
7500 drive off and down.
Yes they pad the MF 40 points. But the residual at 15k miles is 55% and my discount was around $3600. You basically got the entire 6.2% margin off which is almost unheard of on an allocated new model. I did have around $2500 in dealership loyalty money so that paid the up front costs but the MF cost me $40 a month or around $1500.

Noushy
I'm getting 5.5% off approx MSRP...the loyalty goes towards the cap reduction (down payment)...but yeah if you haven't closed your deal demand buyrate and also...the 15k miles (55%) residual could simply be changed to 12k (57%) and then just buy miles before your lease ends... my contract says .20 per mile which translates to $200.00 per 1000 miles plus tax. That's cheaper than sacrificing the residual; no? Just thoughts.
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      07-27-2019, 08:48 PM   #36
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You may be right the miles are close to a wash. Next time I need to see what your dealer offers before I close my deal. I got about 4.5% off but the dealership loyalty program in essence gave me almost $3000 more so in this setting I still came out ahead with no money out of pocket. Thanks for all your help btw. Enlightened me on the money factor part. Never knew the dealer can and does pad that.

Noushy
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      07-27-2019, 10:16 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noushy View Post
You may be right the miles are close to a wash. Next time I need to see what your dealer offers before I close my deal. I got about 4.5% off but the dealership loyalty program in essence gave me almost $3000 more so in this setting I still came out ahead with no money out of pocket. Thanks for all your help btw. Enlightened me on the money factor part. Never knew the dealer can and does pad that.

Noushy
No prob I follow you all here also and get good insights...sales centers are one of the greediest organizations on the planet; in the top 5 anyway....padding the MF for added profit is gross
....they're already getting a kick back at .00145 and even @ invoice they have a hold back....technically squabbling over 4-6% off MSRP is actually barely "fair" to loyal buyers like you and most of us...my sales advisor sent this screen shot that has a "max mark up" to the money factor on it....don't think he meant to send that screen... .00040 max mark up...so if you add that to the .00145 that comes to .00185 which is about 4.44% int on money borrowed vs .00145 which is 3.48% on money borrowed; makes a difference you can certainly feel....of course it all depends on your credit rating also; some have been known to pad even with their "super elite" tier - you just have to be aware and read every stitch of paperwork and they have to disclose how they graded you for credit worthiness and where you fit into their tiered system. Most don't ask and get taken for a literal ride.....pay it forward.
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      07-28-2019, 09:37 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beammeupscottie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by noushy View Post
You may be right the miles are close to a wash. Next time I need to see what your dealer offers before I close my deal. I got about 4.5% off but the dealership loyalty program in essence gave me almost $3000 more so in this setting I still came out ahead with no money out of pocket. Thanks for all your help btw. Enlightened me on the money factor part. Never knew the dealer can and does pad that.

Noushy
No prob I follow you all here also and get good insights...sales centers are one of the greediest organizations on the planet; in the top 5 anyway....padding the MF for added profit is gross
....they're already getting a kick back at .00145 and even @ invoice they have a hold back....technically squabbling over 4-6% off MSRP is actually barely "fair" to loyal buyers like you and most of us...my sales advisor sent this screen shot that has a "max mark up" to the money factor on it....don't think he meant to send that screen... .00040 max mark up...so if you add that to the .00145 that comes to .00185 which is about 4.44% int on money borrowed vs .00145 which is 3.48% on money borrowed; makes a difference you can certainly feel....of course it all depends on your credit rating also; some have been known to pad even with their "super elite" tier - you just have to be aware and read every stitch of paperwork and they have to disclose how they graded you for credit worthiness and where you fit into their tiered system. Most don't ask and get taken for a literal ride.....pay it forward.
If I follow correctly, the base money factor circled in the screenshot is labeled FS Rate. What's "FS" stand for?
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      07-28-2019, 09:52 PM   #39
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beammeupscottie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by noushy View Post
You may be right the miles are close to a wash. Next time I need to see what your dealer offers before I close my deal. I got about 4.5% off but the dealership loyalty program in essence gave me almost $3000 more so in this setting I still came out ahead with no money out of pocket. Thanks for all your help btw. Enlightened me on the money factor part. Never knew the dealer can and does pad that.

Noushy
No prob I follow you all here also and get good insights...sales centers are one of the greediest organizations on the planet; in the top 5 anyway....padding the MF for added profit is gross
....they're already getting a kick back at .00145 and even @ invoice they have a hold back....technically squabbling over 4-6% off MSRP is actually barely "fair" to loyal buyers like you and most of us...my sales advisor sent this screen shot that has a "max mark up" to the money factor on it....don't think he meant to send that screen... .00040 max mark up...so if you add that to the .00145 that comes to .00185 which is about 4.44% int on money borrowed vs .00145 which is 3.48% on money borrowed; makes a difference you can certainly feel....of course it all depends on your credit rating also; some have been known to pad even with their "super elite" tier - you just have to be aware and read every stitch of paperwork and they have to disclose how they graded you for credit worthiness and where you fit into their tiered system. Most don't ask and get taken for a literal ride.....pay it forward.
If I follow correctly, the base money factor circled in the screenshot is labeled FS Rate. What's "FS" stand for?
I believe it's "Financial Services" as in BMWFS rate; or the lowest rate from the BMW financing company that is offered to the lessee; and they (Financial Services) allow the sales center to Mark up the rate up to the amount in the circle ⭕️ to the right; at the discretion of the sales center....
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      07-29-2019, 03:53 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by CosmosMpower View Post
That's true, I felt the same way in my friend's 16 X5M. It didn't feel fast but watching the speedo it was pretty quick, just really smooth.

I'm hoping the motor will shine in the G8x.
you aren't losing your mind.

I recall driving a friend's Dinan X6M years ago back to back with my E92 M3. Driving one and the other it seemed like the X6M was the most boring thing in the world, however, it clearly kept up with the M3.
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      08-05-2019, 11:49 AM   #41
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Yep X3M runs 11's and 120+ mph trap according to some tests I saw but it felt slow.
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      08-05-2019, 01:59 PM   #42
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Lightbulb

I drove the X3M Comp at a M Town Tour stop as well and also thought it 'lagged' right off the line. However, I'm starting to really wonder what the 40-100 mph and 40-120 mph times are like compared to F80 and F87. These splits are meaningful to me because the slowest turns at my track (MSR Houston) are in the 40-45 mph range onto straights that reach 100-130 mph before braking zones.

My F87 did everything very well at MSR Houston with the exception of pulling down those straights. F80 Comps, GT4s, Mustangs, Vettes, etc all pulled away from me in significant fashion on those straight aways under full throttle.

While I felt the lag we're all referencing, I definitely felt planted and believe the X3M Comp has incredible handling. I'm hoping/expecting the stock F97 will do sub 1:50 laps at MSR Houston. I was able to consistently post 1:49s in my f87. I think it's very possible and hope to try it out sometime this fall.
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      08-08-2019, 05:19 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by GVN*2FLY View Post
I drove the X3M Comp at a M Town Tour stop as well and also thought it 'lagged' right off the line. However, I'm starting to really wonder what the 40-100 mph and 40-120 mph times are like compared to F80 and F87. These splits are meaningful to me because the slowest turns at my track (MSR Houston) are in the 40-45 mph range onto straights that reach 100-130 mph before braking zones.

My F87 did everything very well at MSR Houston with the exception of pulling down those straights. F80 Comps, GT4s, Mustangs, Vettes, etc all pulled away from me in significant fashion on those straight aways under full throttle.

While I felt the lag we're all referencing, I definitely felt planted and believe the X3M Comp has incredible handling. I'm hoping/expecting the stock F97 will do sub 1:50 laps at MSR Houston. I was able to consistently post 1:49s in my f87. I think it's very possible and hope to try it out sometime this fall.
I've spent a lot of time trying to research your question, GVN*2FLY, but there just isn't enough documented info online to answer your question (at least that I could find). The easiest way it seems is to compare interval times on formal drag slips, which is what I usually look at when considering performance. The problem in this analysis, though, is understandably most folks who own the M2, M3, or M4 series take it to a track and not the drag strip. Hard to put the power down initially, but if one looks at the interval times, especially after the 330' mark, then those traction issues should fall by the wayside and rough comparisons can be made.

And to your question, it has also been incredibly difficult to find pure stock runs, as it seems most who go to the strip have, once again understandably, done mods.

So here is the only one I was able to find which compares a stock 2015 F80 at ATCO back in 2014, and that had a DA -350, so not a direct atmospheric comparison but useful, nonetheless.

http://www.dragtimes.com/BMW-M3-Timeslip-26888.html
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Last edited by Max Well; 08-08-2019 at 05:30 PM.. Reason: The source didn't get added (dragtimes)
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      08-09-2019, 09:32 AM   #44
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Well View Post
I've spent a lot of time trying to research your question, GVN*2FLY, but there just isn't enough documented info online to answer your question (at least that I could find). The easiest way it seems is to compare interval times on formal drag slips, which is what I usually look at when considering performance. The problem in this analysis, though, is understandably most folks who own the M2, M3, or M4 series take it to a track and not the drag strip. Hard to put the power down initially, but if one looks at the interval times, especially after the 330' mark, then those traction issues should fall by the wayside and rough comparisons can be made.

And to your question, it has also been incredibly difficult to find pure stock runs, as it seems most who go to the strip have, once again understandably, done mods.

So here is the only one I was able to find which compares a stock 2015 F80 at ATCO back in 2014, and that had a DA -350, so not a direct atmospheric comparison but useful, nonetheless.

http://www.dragtimes.com/BMW-M3-Timeslip-26888.html
Wow - thank you, Max Well. The times look very comparable and I'm curious to get the X3M Comp on the track to see what kinds of times I can turn. Stay tuned....
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