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      01-23-2019, 12:01 PM   #23
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I can't think of any other watch that is as instantly recognizable as the Submariner or any other watch in the class that i would remotely want...

At the bottom of the ladder; you have something like a Tag Heuer (an amazing watch that I also own) that is an awesome value and price. It is my favorite daily watch.

In the middle, you have watches that I like to call halfway watches i.e. Omega, Breitling... these watches are good but to me no better than a Tag for a fraction of the price and not even close to something as instantly classic like a Rolex. I am not sure who these watches are really marketed at; someone that doesn't want something like a TAG but cant afford a ROLEX?

Above that you have Rolex which in my mind stands in a class of its own... Panerai, IWC etc are much less recognizable in this class.

Above that you have AP, Patek... this where you have to be insanely wealthy to own these watches and simply are out of reach for most...

So point being, what alternative to a Rolex does one have where the watch is a similar class, known brand, high quality and classic look...? add to that very solid resale; I can't think of any.
tag tier - swiss watches with standard swiss movements

omega tier - swiss watches mass produced with in house movements and movement innovation (rolex would be in this tier without the rolex name ie. Tudor). PAM, IWC fit this bill as well.

Omega tier but with precious metals - same as above but they use precious metals and bump the price up significantly.

AP/Patek tier - swiss handmade limited supply watches for the most part.

But yes, a rolex sub is one of the most recognizable watches. That is why they can get away with charging a premium on a watch that does the same as their competitors for less. They have built a brand that people are willing to pay a premium for the name only.
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      01-23-2019, 12:20 PM   #24
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Same problems with 2 of the Tudor Black Bay models - these watches are well under £3k, UK list - but there is a wait list now of over 12 months, (quoted by AD's) for the Black Bay GMT and Black Bay 58

On the grey market they are selling well over list, but obviously not as bad at the Rolex "multi-coloured swop shop" Subs
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      01-23-2019, 01:24 PM   #25
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Same problems with 2 of the Tudor Black Bay models - these watches are well under £3k, UK list - but there is a wait list now of over 12 months, (quoted by AD's) for the Black Bay GMT and Black Bay 58

On the grey market they are selling well over list, but obviously not as bad at the Rolex "multi-coloured swop shop" Subs
theres a BB GMT for sale on reddit
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      01-23-2019, 01:42 PM   #26
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theres a BB GMT for sale on reddit
Thanks, but I'm in the UK - (and) I would never pay more than list

I'm on the list for the GMT, but it seems to get mixed review - never tried one as all the AD's near me don't have them
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      01-23-2019, 02:16 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
I can't think of any other watch that is as instantly recognizable as the Submariner or any other watch in the class that i would remotely want...

At the bottom of the ladder; you have something like a Tag Heuer (an amazing watch that I also own) that is an awesome value and price. It is my favorite daily watch.

In the middle, you have watches that I like to call halfway watches i.e. Omega, Breitling... these watches are good but to me no better than a Tag for a fraction of the price and not even close to something as instantly classic like a Rolex. I am not sure who these watches are really marketed at; someone that doesn't want something like a TAG but cant afford a ROLEX?

Above that you have Rolex which in my mind stands in a class of its own... Panerai, IWC etc are much less recognizable in this class.

Above that you have AP, Patek... this where you have to be insanely wealthy to own these watches and simply are out of reach for most...

So point being, what alternative to a Rolex does one have where the watch is a similar class, known brand, high quality and classic look...? add to that very solid resale; I can't think of any.
tag tier - swiss watches with standard swiss movements

omega tier - swiss watches mass produced with in house movements and movement innovation (rolex would be in this tier without the rolex name ie. Tudor). PAM, IWC fit this bill as well.

Omega tier but with precious metals - same as above but they use precious metals and bump the price up significantly.

AP/Patek tier - swiss handmade limited supply watches for the most part.

But yes, a rolex sub is one of the most recognizable watches. That is why they can get away with charging a premium on a watch that does the same as their competitors for less. They have built a brand that people are willing to pay a premium for the name only.
being a more realistic member of society... i see watches much more as a piece of jewelry... with that, movements dont matter. Remember the cheapest quartz watch will typically be more accurate than automatic... An apple watch, far more than all of them... its all about branding and marketing; anyone that sees it any other way is at least to an extent lying to themselves. This is not a car that we all actually use to drive us places at various speeds and on various roads.
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      01-24-2019, 01:31 AM   #28
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they are still selling the same amount, they just keep it steady throughout the year.

in the past, 1st half of the year you could find them everywhere and the 2nd half would start to get sparse. now its just a steady flow of sparse.
Huh? SS Sport models have been impossible to find for A LONG TIME NOW. No clue what you are talking about in a lot of your Rolex posts. You don't seem to be in tune with the current Rolex happenings.
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      01-24-2019, 01:32 AM   #29
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I heard yesterday from my AD that Rolex is trying to kill off the resellers and gray market with their ridiculous prices. Not entirely sure how holding off on inventory makes that strategy work or how long Rolex can survive with that strategy.
Got news for you, thank the ADs for this. They are the ones selling to grays for thousands above cost (obviously backdoor deals). There have been several reports of this.
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      01-24-2019, 08:43 AM   #30
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I just can't believe how much is a SS Sub, Pepsi, Batman, and Hulk models. My 36mm Datejust gets more wrist time than my Sub. I'm fortunate to have purchased the Sub before this crazy demand took place. I also wear my Seiko Sarb033, more than Sub.
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      01-24-2019, 10:09 AM   #31
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Huh? SS Sport models have been impossible to find for A LONG TIME NOW. No clue what you are talking about in a lot of your Rolex posts. You don't seem to be in tune with the current Rolex happenings.
i have been buying and selling rolex/watches as well as servicing/repairing for awhile now.

not sure where you are that you havent been able to find them. Early part of 2017, Sub C and GMT were both readily available at most ADs and nearly every boutique I went to. Last year, after they rolled out the "Limited availability" BS, is when they started to become scarce in store.
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      01-24-2019, 10:18 PM   #32
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I'm a watch enthusiast. I have friends in the business that go to Baselworld every year. And they don't understand why SS sport models are difficult to find. I've been to several AD Rolex dealers, and I haven't seen a SS sport Rolex in the display case.Thewatchguy, maybe share what AD has them, so those looking to purchase one, can. Thanks.

Last edited by ny325; 01-24-2019 at 10:24 PM..
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      01-25-2019, 08:01 AM   #33
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I would say it depends on your relationships perhaps... I am really cool with my local AD and in what I would consider an extremely hot market. Here is what has happened the last 3 months-

Local AD - I bought a SS sub with date in December from them, it was the only one they had but because I was cool with the sales lady; she called me first.

2 weeks later, Tourneau calls me and tell me they have the same model but I had already bought mine. This call, I am surprised I got but again; talking to a few people nicely helps.

Yesterday; I get a call from the above mentioned local AD about another black SS sub they have and if I know anyone interested in one. They can't sell it to me due to company policy of not selling 2 of the same watches to 1 one person. Again, I was called as one of the first people because I was cool with them.

I would agree; the open market and shelves don't stock many of these watches however if you are really cool with the right people; it's not an issue. If I wanted to play games; I could have had 3 within the last 3 months.
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      01-25-2019, 09:25 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ny325 View Post
I'm a watch enthusiast. I have friends in the business that go to Baselworld every year. And they don't understand why SS sport models are difficult to find. I've been to several AD Rolex dealers, and I haven't seen a SS sport Rolex in the display case.Thewatchguy, maybe share what AD has them, so those looking to purchase one, can. Thanks.
i dont think you read what i said.

i said they are hard to find now in store unless, like ASAP said, you have a relationship with an AD.
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      01-25-2019, 10:09 AM   #35
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being a more realistic member of society... i see watches much more as a piece of jewelry... with that, movements dont matter. Remember the cheapest quartz watch will typically be more accurate than automatic... An apple watch, far more than all of them... its all about branding and marketing; anyone that sees it any other way is at least to an extent lying to themselves. This is not a car that we all actually use to drive us places at various speeds and on various roads.
It's just one of those things that's greater than the sum of its parts...like how there are minivans that are faster than an E30 M3, but they're desirable anyway
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      01-25-2019, 05:59 PM   #36
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I have a 24 year relationship with a dealer. In fact, we’re on a friendship level. Going to concerts, sporting events, fishing, and so on. My friend is a GM for a highly reputable AD that I purchased 2 SS Subs, SS Datejust, and Cartier. My other friend owns his own AD boutique in Miami. They both said SS Sport models are nearly impossible to get at a AD. Rolex isn’t shipping them out. In fact, the Rolex display cases are virtually empty. They were given no reason for the shortage. I went into Wempe in NYC on 5th ave and 53rd. I also have several friends that work there, and they haven’t had a SS Submariner in about a year. Neither does Rolex on 53rd and Madison ave. They don’t know when they will get SS sport model inventory. I was interested in the Batman, and Pepsi model. I’ve been patiently waiting. Your very fortunate to have been given the opportunity to purchase one. Most of us are still waiting.
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      01-27-2019, 12:47 AM   #37
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love everything about Rolex controlling their supply. it's a clinic in brand management. also, being that they are family owned and do not answer to the markets they can chose to prefer to be more exclusive rather than higher revenues.

LV and Hermes on the fashion side are trying but their products are too easily faked. you can usually tell when a rolex is fake and honestly i havent seen a fake one in years.

side benefit of rolex managing supply like this is that it helps keep values up. buying certain rolexes can provide a better return than many stocks and other investments. the secondary market for rolex is better than for cars. i've had dealers offer me 40% more for a GMT Coke right off my wrist than i had paid for it 1 year prior because they could make $1,000 off it in 3 hours with a waiting list of people to call.

i hope they continue to do this, particularly with the RG stuff. I daily an RG Ceramic daytona and would love for it to double in value in 5 years like my GMT coke did.

Omega is starting to do the same. in fact, i have been told that in china Omega is like Rolex is in the West as far as values and marketability.

The price for various Speedmasters has doubled in the last few years as well. In Canada you could buy a Speedy pro for $3.5k at an AD, not they start at $5.5k and they pull all the secondary market prices up too. But it still isnt a rolex
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      01-27-2019, 01:01 AM   #38
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      01-27-2019, 05:26 PM   #39
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I gave away my submariner a long time ago and sold my gold rolex for a song-did not care for them.
That's very generous or silly of you
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      01-29-2019, 01:22 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ny325 View Post
I have a 24 year relationship with a dealer. In fact, weíre on a friendship level. Going to concerts, sporting events, fishing, and so on. My friend is a GM for a highly reputable AD that I purchased 2 SS Subs, SS Datejust, and Cartier. My other friend owns his own AD boutique in Miami. They both said SS Sport models are nearly impossible to get at a AD. Rolex isnít shipping them out. In fact, the Rolex display cases are virtually empty. They were given no reason for the shortage. I went into Wempe in NYC on 5th ave and 53rd. I also have several friends that work there, and they havenít had a SS Submariner in about a year. Neither does Rolex on 53rd and Madison ave. They donít know when they will get SS sport model inventory. I was interested in the Batman, and Pepsi model. Iíve been patiently waiting. Your very fortunate to have been given the opportunity to purchase one. Most of us are still waiting.
I too have a very good relationship with my local AD from whom I've purchased five new Rolex's (Two SS Daytona's, two GMT Batman's and one Sub Hulk).
As everyone has said, the cases are empty. They are actually thinking of redesigning the cases so there are fewer spots (empty) so it doesn't look so odd.
My AD said that he has no idea when anything is coming in. So far, they've only received on new Pepsi and haven't really seen anything else in a SS sport model in a long time.
He told me that Rolex hit their sales goal last year around October and basically stopped shipping SS sport models. Demand when through the roof.
I said, it's basically the same model that Ferrari uses. Produce less than the demand and the prices will always rise!

I've actually moved on from new watches and have moved into the classics. Currently I have a 1971 Rolex Daytona 6263 PN, 1972 Rolex 1680 Red Sub (selling) and a 1973 Rolex 1675 GMT Pepsi. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the look of the new watches, but really love the patina and "story" of the older watches.

In the end, yes, the shortage is real. No one knows what's going to happen.
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      01-31-2019, 07:39 PM   #41
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I too have a very good relationship with my local AD from whom I've purchased five new Rolex's (Two SS Daytona's, two GMT Batman's and one Sub Hulk).
As everyone has said, the cases are empty. They are actually thinking of redesigning the cases so there are fewer spots (empty) so it doesn't look so odd.
My AD said that he has no idea when anything is coming in. So far, they've only received on new Pepsi and haven't really seen anything else in a SS sport model in a long time.
He told me that Rolex hit their sales goal last year around October and basically stopped shipping SS sport models. Demand when through the roof.
I said, it's basically the same model that Ferrari uses. Produce less than the demand and the prices will always rise!

I've actually moved on from new watches and have moved into the classics. Currently I have a 1971 Rolex Daytona 6263 PN, 1972 Rolex 1680 Red Sub (selling) and a 1973 Rolex 1675 GMT Pepsi. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the look of the new watches, but really love the patina and "story" of the older watches.

In the end, yes, the shortage is real. No one knows what's going to happen.
Wow your Vintage collection is awesome! Now that's a collection - 6263, 1680, and 1675.
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      02-04-2019, 12:18 PM   #42
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Wow your Vintage collection is awesome! Now that's a collection - 6263, 1680, and 1675.
Thanks! I'm actually looking to move on from the Red 1680 to a 1665 Sea Dweller. Either a DRSD or a Rail Dial.
Pic is of my current lineup. I also have a gilt Tudor 7928 PCG that is being overhauled.
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      02-04-2019, 11:04 PM   #43
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Thanks! I'm actually looking to move on from the Red 1680 to a 1665 Sea Dweller. Either a DRSD or a Rail Dial.
Pic is of my current lineup. I also have a gilt Tudor 7928 PCG that is being overhauled.
Man, those are some sexy pieces you got!
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      02-05-2019, 12:30 AM   #44
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If anyone is interested in a Rolex, I can hook you up through me authorized dealer. Feel free to PM!
Happy to help fellow car enthusiasts
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