BMW X3 Forum
BMW X3 Forum
Welcome to the ultimate BMW X3 community.
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
XBimmers | BMW X3 Forum BMW X3/X4 Forums BMW X3 (G01) / X4 (G02) Forum X3 M40i Turbo Lagging

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-28-2020, 12:58 PM   #45
clivem2
Lieutenant Colonel
United Kingdom
307
Rep
1,593
Posts

Drives: X3 M40i
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by corn18 View Post
It's not turbo lag, it's the computer dumbing things down. When I bought our X3 M40i, it was a rocket. Over time, it became a dog. Then I towed a 5,000 lbs trailer over 20 hours. When I dropped off the trailer, the first words out of my mouth were "holy shit!". The X3 was back! Now a month later it has become boring again. Not sure why BMW has installed an old lady algorithm, but when it is new, it is faaaaaaaast.
Can you be sure this isn't down to your loving the boost in performance with the trailer unhitched?

I remember when I had a 1.6 litre car with a turbo (1980's...). If I wanted to overtake I needed to drop couple of gears, hold the revs then whoosh. Lag was more like 2 seconds.
__________________
Current: G01 M40i Silver / Tartufo
Previous: E30 318iS, E39 520i 523i 523i, E46 vert 330i 330i, E93 vert 335i, F25 30D 35D
Appreciate 0
      05-28-2020, 01:01 PM   #46
corn18
Lieutenant
corn18's Avatar
1246
Rep
582
Posts

Drives: 2020 X3 M40i
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: SW OH

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2014 Jeep Wrangler 2D  [0.00]
2015 Chevy 2500HD  [0.00]
2015 Z4  [0.00]
2020 X3 M40i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by clivem2 View Post
Can you be sure this isn't down to your loving the boost in performance with the trailer unhitched?

I remember when I had a 1.6 litre car with a turbo (1980's...). If I wanted to overtake I needed to drop couple of gears, hold the revs then whoosh. Lag was more like 2 seconds.
Who knows. Qualitative observations can be flawed and vary drastically by observer. All I know is the car changes over time and not for the better. This has been discussed myriad times here on BP.
__________________
The stupid shall be punished
Appreciate 0
      05-28-2020, 08:29 PM   #47
scotthilly
scotthilly
United_States
0
Rep
3
Posts

Drives: 2017 340i MSport
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Atlanta, Georgia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWGuySweden View Post
I don't think it's turbo lag. I think it's the gear box. Everyone is praising the ZF gearbox but I actually am not thrilled with it. I think it's bmw that was forced to program it to be in the highest gear possible for emission purposes. When you want immediate power then it needs to shift down one or two gears and then you get the push. I find the car much more punchy if you use the paddle shifters or have the gear lever in sport mode. Then there is no lag at all.
It's actually just the BMW tuning of the ZF8. I switched from a 340i to an Alfa Romeo Stelvio and it's so much better I can't even begin to describe. We've got an X1, too (Aisin, not ZF) but it seems to alwasy be wrong for me - BMW's are too comfort oritented, tranny wise, in comfort, and overly sporty in sport. There needs to be an in between.
Appreciate 0
      05-28-2020, 10:19 PM   #48
satz
Major
Australia
107
Rep
1,109
Posts

Drives: 2019 BMW X3 M40i
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Canberra

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by corn18 View Post
It's not turbo lag, it's the computer dumbing things down. When I bought our X3 M40i, it was a rocket. Over time, it became a dog. Then I towed a 5,000 lbs trailer over 20 hours. When I dropped off the trailer, the first words out of my mouth were "holy shit!". The X3 was back! Now a month later it has become boring again. Not sure why BMW has installed an old lady algorithm, but when it is new, it is faaaaaaaast.
Agree...apparently the BMWs with electronic throttle have this 'learning' inbuilt that supposedly learns the driving patterns. Probably to smooth out the acceleration/improve economy/reduce emissions, etc

Trouble is, if you're on a longish drive and suddenly need a quick burst of speed (and honestly...who doesn't just for fun at least....), the ECU has learned the 'long cruise/steady speed' mode, and so delays the response to throttle.

It could also be some turbo lag in there to compound the delay.

Okay..in all honesty it's not that long a delay in real terms, but when you want/expect a quick response, even 0.5 - 1 second seems like an eternity.

On my 335i that delay often meant almost getting hit by a car when I merged and couldn't get up to speed quickly enough.

(And to be honest, I never felt the stock N54 engine was as powerful as people seemed to make out).
__________________
2019 X3 M40i, Sophisto grey, H/K, pano
Previous: 2019 BMW X2 Msport, Mineral Grey, Adaptive Suspension, H/K
Previous: 2009 335i LCI, Bluewater
Appreciate 0
      05-28-2020, 11:38 PM   #49
Douggie
First Lieutenant
73
Rep
356
Posts

Drives: BMW X1, 5
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Asia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by corn18 View Post
It's not turbo lag, it's the computer dumbing things down. When I bought our X3 M40i, it was a rocket. Over time, it became a dog. Then I towed a 5,000 lbs trailer over 20 hours. When I dropped off the trailer, the first words out of my mouth were "holy shit!". The X3 was back! Now a month later it has become boring again. Not sure why BMW has installed an old lady algorithm, but when it is new, it is faaaaaaaast.
Yep, it's definitely not turbo lag. The modern turbos push pressures at below 2K RPMs. It's the throttle/transmission adaptation logic that they use that adds another "brain" between the gas pedal and the engine.

There are ways to force reset the adaptations. The other way is to drive it aggressively once in a while, forcing lots of downshifts.
Appreciate 0
      05-29-2020, 12:36 AM   #50
Alias1431
Captain
Alias1431's Avatar
United_States
254
Rep
955
Posts

Drives: 2019 BMW X3 M40i
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Washington

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by corn18 View Post
It's not turbo lag, it's the computer dumbing things down. Not sure why BMW has installed an old lady algorithm, but when it is new, it is faaaaaaaast.
How do I kill it?
Appreciate 0
      05-29-2020, 12:38 AM   #51
Alias1431
Captain
Alias1431's Avatar
United_States
254
Rep
955
Posts

Drives: 2019 BMW X3 M40i
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Washington

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douggie View Post
Yep, it's definitely not turbo lag. The modern turbos push pressures at below 2K RPMs. It's the throttle/transmission adaptation logic that they use that adds another "brain" between the gas pedal and the engine.

There are ways to force reset the adaptations. The other way is to drive it aggressively once in a while, forcing lots of downshifts.
Can you code a "brain" wipe every startup?
Appreciate 0
      05-29-2020, 12:39 AM   #52
Alias1431
Captain
Alias1431's Avatar
United_States
254
Rep
955
Posts

Drives: 2019 BMW X3 M40i
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Washington

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by scotthilly View Post
It's actually just the BMW tuning of the ZF8. I switched from a 340i to an Alfa Romeo Stelvio and it's so much better I can't even begin to describe. We've got an X1, too (Aisin, not ZF) but it seems to alwasy be wrong for me - BMW's are too comfort oritented, tranny wise, in comfort, and overly sporty in sport. There needs to be an in between.
Will xHP trans tune fix this? Or BM3 tune? I read somewhere recently that BM3 also tunes your tranny, but perhaps not as much as an xHP tune. Is this true?
Appreciate 0
      05-29-2020, 01:12 AM   #53
Douggie
First Lieutenant
73
Rep
356
Posts

Drives: BMW X1, 5
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Asia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alias1431 View Post
Can you code a "brain" wipe every startup?
I doubt you can do it to the car, but you can always "code" your own brain to do the reset sequence everytime before going off
Appreciate 0
      05-29-2020, 04:04 AM   #54
tonyb15re
Second Lieutenant
tonyb15re's Avatar
71
Rep
209
Posts

Drives: X3 M40i
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: england

iTrader: (0)

you can also consider getting your gearbox coded with the Alpina Software by your local coding specialist.

This post is old but gives you an idea

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1422733
Appreciate 1
Alias1431253.50

      05-29-2020, 07:46 PM   #55
satz
Major
Australia
107
Rep
1,109
Posts

Drives: 2019 BMW X3 M40i
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Canberra

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alias1431 View Post
Will xHP trans tune fix this? Or BM3 tune? I read somewhere recently that BM3 also tunes your tranny, but perhaps not as much as an xHP tune. Is this true?
I tried the xhp tune on my 6-spd 335i. Wasn't impressed.
The only tangible benefit I found was being able to see the gear number displayed on the instrument panel.

I know this is a totally different car, so xhp might work better?
__________________
2019 X3 M40i, Sophisto grey, H/K, pano
Previous: 2019 BMW X2 Msport, Mineral Grey, Adaptive Suspension, H/K
Previous: 2009 335i LCI, Bluewater
Appreciate 0
      05-29-2020, 08:14 PM   #56
strohw
Private
33
Rep
72
Posts

Drives: 2020 X3M
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Michigan

iTrader: (0)

My F-pace S would do this. If you're driving along and gave it the beans it would take a second and rev way up and then go. The delay was so annoying. If you put the transmission into sport mode it was better but it would still do it. The X3M I have now just goes. You hit the gas on the expressway to pass and there is 0 delay. It's one of the most obvious differences outside of the extra power.
Appreciate 0
      05-30-2020, 02:53 AM   #57
clivem2
Lieutenant Colonel
United Kingdom
307
Rep
1,593
Posts

Drives: X3 M40i
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

For satz who said the revs jumped immediately too 5k but there was no push this must have been turbo lag not trani lag.

For a lagging trani does using the kickdown switch help?
Appreciate 0
      05-30-2020, 03:36 AM   #58
satz
Major
Australia
107
Rep
1,109
Posts

Drives: 2019 BMW X3 M40i
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Canberra

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by clivem2 View Post
For satz who said the revs jumped immediately too 5k but there was no push this must have been turbo lag not trani lag.

For a lagging trani does using the kickdown switch help?
Hi Clive, i tried that as well. I guess the delay is about the same using the kickdown.

I still wonder whether it's really turbo lag as it's a fairly large engine, smallish turbo and modern technology. And not an exorbitant power output. Also, it's like a switch when the power does come on, rather than a soft-ish build up of power.

I'm curious that the X3M doesn't do that according to strohw
__________________
2019 X3 M40i, Sophisto grey, H/K, pano
Previous: 2019 BMW X2 Msport, Mineral Grey, Adaptive Suspension, H/K
Previous: 2009 335i LCI, Bluewater
Appreciate 0
      05-30-2020, 08:21 PM   #59
strohw
Private
33
Rep
72
Posts

Drives: 2020 X3M
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Michigan

iTrader: (0)

My main point was that my F-pace did the same thing and that has a supercharged 3.0L engine but it also used a ZF8. If you fed in a lot of throttle while you were moving it would just rev up and not doing enough and then it would take off. I just believe the transmission was sitting in too high of a gear most of the time to make that kind of throttle input work. Instead of feeding in power and shifting it would rev up, then shift down a few gears and then go. If you manually controlled the engine it would never do it.

It doesn't help that I believe the Jag tuning of the ZF8 in their SUVs isn't as good as BMW. It's very obvious it isn't as good as the setup in the X3M. I only test drove a 40i for like 10 minutes so I don't have good experience with that one to compare.
Appreciate 0
      06-02-2020, 08:38 AM   #60
Tubes23
Enlisted Member
9
Rep
30
Posts

Drives: Porsche Macan GTS
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Manchester

iTrader: (0)

Its likely to be Throttle Adaption that impacts almost all auto BMW's.

Procedure is a bit hit and miss with regards to success but the procedure goes like this:

- Put the power on but do not start the engine.
- Floor the throttle for 30-60 seconds
- Keep the throttle to the floor and put the power OFF
- Release the throttle and wait 2 minutes.

During the 2 minutes you should feel or hear some kind of mechanical sound. That should tell you the reset is complete.
Appreciate 0
      06-02-2020, 09:50 AM   #61
Alias1431
Captain
Alias1431's Avatar
United_States
254
Rep
955
Posts

Drives: 2019 BMW X3 M40i
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Washington

iTrader: (0)

Does tuning get rid of throttle adaptation?
Appreciate 0
      06-19-2020, 12:49 AM   #62
satz
Major
Australia
107
Rep
1,109
Posts

Drives: 2019 BMW X3 M40i
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Canberra

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubes23 View Post
Its likely to be Throttle Adaption that impacts almost all auto BMW's.

Procedure is a bit hit and miss with regards to success but the procedure goes like this:

- Put the power on but do not start the engine.
- Floor the throttle for 30-60 seconds
- Keep the throttle to the floor and put the power OFF
- Release the throttle and wait 2 minutes.

During the 2 minutes you should feel or hear some kind of mechanical sound. That should tell you the reset is complete.

I used to use this procedure on my E90 335i automatic, but would these same steps be okay on a G01 X3?

I don't know why exactly, but I think there's something different in the Start/Stop button press sequences on this car? I think it's one press to 'ignition', and then next press to start?
__________________
2019 X3 M40i, Sophisto grey, H/K, pano
Previous: 2019 BMW X2 Msport, Mineral Grey, Adaptive Suspension, H/K
Previous: 2009 335i LCI, Bluewater
Appreciate 0
      06-19-2020, 01:39 AM   #63
titomi
Major
titomi's Avatar
Netherlands
516
Rep
1,373
Posts

Drives: X3 G01 30i xDrive
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: EU

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2018 X3 G01  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by satz View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubes23 View Post
Its likely to be Throttle Adaption that impacts almost all auto BMW's.

Procedure is a bit hit and miss with regards to success but the procedure goes like this:

- Put the power on but do not start the engine.
- Floor the throttle for 30-60 seconds
- Keep the throttle to the floor and put the power OFF
- Release the throttle and wait 2 minutes.

During the 2 minutes you should feel or hear some kind of mechanical sound. That should tell you the reset is complete.

I used to use this procedure on my E90 335i automatic, but would these same steps be okay on a G01 X3?

I don't know why exactly, but I think there's something different in the Start/Stop button press sequences on this car? I think it's one press to 'ignition', and then next press to start?
If I remember correctly, the procedure here should be:
1. pres start button (engine is off)
2. push gas pedal all the way down past the kickdown point for 30 seconds
3. release the pedal
4. use your car normal way
Appreciate 1
      06-19-2020, 03:36 AM   #64
Tubes23
Enlisted Member
9
Rep
30
Posts

Drives: Porsche Macan GTS
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Manchester

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by titomi View Post
If I remember correctly, the procedure here should be:
1. pres start button (engine is off)
2. push gas pedal all the way down past the kickdown point for 30 seconds
3. release the pedal
4. use your car normal way
Could well be, i imagine it varies between cars but that's how it was done on my M240 & M2.
Appreciate 0
      06-19-2020, 04:06 PM   #65
freshxdough
BMW Master Technician i3/i8 Certified
freshxdough's Avatar
439
Rep
766
Posts

Drives: 2020 X3 M40i
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Orange County

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubes23 View Post
Its likely to be Throttle Adaption that impacts almost all auto BMW's.

Procedure is a bit hit and miss with regards to success but the procedure goes like this:

- Put the power on but do not start the engine.
- Floor the throttle for 30-60 seconds
- Keep the throttle to the floor and put the power OFF
- Release the throttle and wait 2 minutes.

During the 2 minutes you should feel or hear some kind of mechanical sound. That should tell you the reset is complete.
Fyi I know people say that this "throttle adaption clearing procedure" works but I can say with 100% certainty that there is no documentation provided from BMW that states this is a way to clear throttle adaptations. I honestly don't know where people got this from.

The only way to clear adaptations is to use the service function in the DME.
Appreciate 3
      06-19-2020, 04:54 PM   #66
msg617
New Member
27
Rep
26
Posts

Drives: X3
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

We're lucky to have expertise from @freshxdough; otherwise we'd be stuck with anecdote.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:08 AM.




xbimmers
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST