[slowestM2]

xo

[BIG_KID]

Originally Posted by dirtydesmo

Anyone else had something like this happen?

You mean have the dealer lie to you. Happens all the time unfortunately

[doodlebro]

If you had the work done at BMW dealerships, it shouldn't be that hard to convince them otherwise on the oil change interval issue they are claiming.

I'd be furious.

[Wgosma]

Originally Posted by doodlebro

If you had the work done at BMW dealerships, it shouldn't be that hard to convince them otherwise on the oil change interval issue they are claiming.

I'd be furious.

Even if you or an independent shop did the oil service work if you have documentation to support the change intervals (odometer readings recorded) and oil/filter products used I think you should have a valid case to argue.

I think it would be pretty rare that the conditioned based oil change interval would fall below 10K miles- I think one would have to drive in a LOT of heavy city traffic much of the time to see that occur. Still, I suppose Dealer could argue no fault as CBM was not followed.

Not using BMW's Long-Life oil might be one way the Dealer could wriggle out of responsibility- a technicality but would not be surprised if they play that card.

Maybe time to detail your story and get BMW NA in the loop; nothing to lose and maybe you'll get concession on cost for new motor.

Good luck/Bill

[slowestM2]

Originally Posted by doodlebro

If you had the work done at BMW dealerships, it shouldn't be that hard to convince them otherwise on the oil change interval issue they are claiming.

I'd be furious.

I did the changes myself, had literally 0 problems with the car besides the headlight ballast failing.



It wasn't as if I was pouring oil in out of a laundry detergent bottle... this is where I worked for the first half of car ownership, after I became a realtor I did all the oil changes at home with Liqui Moly or Mobil 1 and Mahle OEM filters.....

I just don't get how they can deny fixing a car that had 0 issues and went in and out of a dealership 3 times in a month after it's initial visit then less than 1k miles later am told it needs an engine.

[slowestM2]

Originally Posted by Wgosma

Even if you or an independent shop did the oil service work if you have documentation to support the change intervals (odometer readings recorded) and oil/filter products used I think you should have a valid case to argue.

I think it would be pretty rare that the conditioned based oil change interval would fall below 10K miles- I think one would have to drive in a LOT of heavy city traffic much of the time to see that occur. Still, I suppose Dealer could argue no fault as CBM was not followed.

Not using BMW's Long-Life oil might be one way the Dealer could wriggle out of responsibility- a technicality but would not be surprised if they play that card.

Maybe time to detail your story and get BMW NA in the loop; nothing to lose and maybe you'll get concession on cost for new motor.

Good luck/Bill

BMW NA was involved, they said the dealership determined by the amount of "sludge" in on the top of the engine means that I didn't follow intervals correctly.

Meanwhile this is an engine that recommended 15k intervals when sold.

[________]

Originally Posted by dirtydesmo

BMW NA was involved, they said the dealership determined by the amount of "sludge" in on the top of the engine means that I didn't follow intervals correctly.

Meanwhile this is an engine that recommended 15k intervals when sold.

Did you see the sludge yourself? Pictures?

[doodlebro]

Originally Posted by dirtydesmo

BMW NA was involved, they said the dealership determined by the amount of "sludge" in on the top of the engine means that I didn't follow intervals correctly.

Meanwhile this is an engine that recommended 15k intervals when sold.

Honestly OP, the only thing I'd do at this point is write a letter to BMW NA explaining the situation with all the proof. Send it certified to the highest employee you can find and they won't miss it. Just be polite, but generally they are willing to extend an arm when you reach out like that with a clear and polite case for your side.

[Opie55]

Since this is a 2013 N20, are you sure this is not the timing chain guide issue that has ruined so many 2013 N20s? Demand to see the sludge. Seriously. I have my doubts.

[oVeRdOsE.]

Originally Posted by dirtydesmo

I did the changes myself, had literally 0 problems with the car besides the headlight ballast failing.



It wasn't as if I was pouring oil in out of a laundry detergent bottle... this is where I worked for the first half of car ownership, after I became a realtor I did all the oil changes at home with Liqui Moly or Mobil 1 and Mahle OEM filters.....

I just don't get how they can deny fixing a car that had 0 issues and went in and out of a dealership 3 times in a month after it's initial visit then less than 1k miles later am told it needs an engine.

mmm, that B7 Avant !

[omasou]

Originally Posted by dirtydesmo

Did you see where I performed half of the oil changes?

Our shop was cleaner than any BMW dealer, it's not a matter of cost, it's a matter of having it done RIGHT.

Sorry, I tend to agree w/Rick about changing the oil not the situation. I use to change my oil. The price of oil (even purchased from Walmart) and filters (at a discount) tend to cost more than just having the dealer do a "value service", which is also less than an independent. Then throw in the other perks Rick mentioned + the BMW documentation and it's a no brainer.

I too would find it hard to believe there is sludge with the oil change intervals mentioned.

It seems your only recourse is to follow doodlebro advice and write a polite letter to BMW NA.

[slowestM2]

Originally Posted by omasou

Sorry, I tend to agree w/Rick about changing the oil not the situation. I use to change my oil. The price of oil (even purchased from Walmart) and filters (at a discount) tend to cost more than just having the dealer do a "value service", which is also less than an independent. Then throw in the other perks Rick mentioned + the BMW documentation and it's a no brainer.

I too would find it hard to believe there is sludge with the oil change intervals mentioned.

It seems your only recourse is to follow doodlebro advice and write a polite letter to BMW NA.

I owned the car for 45k miles.

If there was an issue caused by oil intervals, why wouldn't of BMW caught it knocking or making noise during one of the last 3 visits to the shop while it was under warranty?

How does a car go from running perfectly with NO signs of knocking or noise to making a loud knocking noise in 1k miles?

It had been starved of oil at some point while in BMW's hands.

Rod bearings and thrust bearings don't just magically deteriorate unless they are ran without oil.

An 89k mile good running car doesn't go to a rod knocking one at 90k miles if nothing has changed.

My whole gripe is that I believe a technician at BMW probably cranked or let the car run while doing oil filter housing gasket or turbo oil line repair job and that caused the bearings ( unsure if thrust or rod at this point) to get beat up and start knocking.

[omasou]

Originally Posted by dirtydesmo

I owned the car for 45k miles.

If there was an issue caused by oil intervals, why wouldn't of BMW caught it knocking or making noise during one of the last 3 visits to the shop while it was under warranty?

How does a car go from running perfectly with NO signs of knocking or noise to making a loud knocking noise in 1k miles?

It had been starved of oil at some point while in BMW's hands.

Rod bearings and thrust bearings don't just magically deteriorate unless they are ran without oil.

An 89k mile good running car doesn't go to a rod knocking one at 90k miles if nothing has changed.

My whole gripe is that I believe a technician at BMW probably cranked or let the car run while doing oil filter housing gasket or turbo oil line repair job and that caused the bearings ( unsure if thrust or rod at this point) to get beat up and start knocking.

I agree with you but I'm not sure that they should have caught it b/c I think based on what I have read so far that the problem may have been worsened in the last couple of visits.

[omasou]

Originally Posted by dirtydesmo

I owned the car for 45k miles.

If there was an issue caused by oil intervals, why wouldn't of BMW caught it knocking or making noise during one of the last 3 visits to the shop while it was under warranty?

How does a car go from running perfectly with NO signs of knocking or noise to making a loud knocking noise in 1k miles?

It had been starved of oil at some point while in BMW's hands.

Rod bearings and thrust bearings don't just magically deteriorate unless they are ran without oil.

An 89k mile good running car doesn't go to a rod knocking one at 90k miles if nothing has changed.

My whole gripe is that I believe a technician at BMW probably cranked or let the car run while doing oil filter housing gasket or turbo oil line repair job and that caused the bearings ( unsure if thrust or rod at this point) to get beat up and start knocking.

This is the first time that you mentioned oil starvation and rod bearings. That's not good.

[slowestM2]

Originally Posted by omasou

I agree with you but I'm not sure that they should have caught it b/c I think based on what I have read so far that the problem may have been worsened in the last couple of visits.

I'm just saying, if this issue was cause by me not maintaining the car properly it would of been showing itself at 89k miles.

A rod bearing doesn't disintegrate over 1k miles of driving on regular roads after an OEM oil change and service is performed.

If there was a pre-existing issue caused by my mis-maintaince of the vehicle it should of been apparent during the 3 prior visits to me returning it with a metallic noise.

The fact that my car never had a drive-train issue, then had 2 after bringing it to the dealer and then the 3 rd visit in a month they tell me it needs a motor.....

[omasou]

Originally Posted by dirtydesmo

I'm just saying, if this issue was cause by me not maintaining the car properly it would of been showing itself at 89k miles.

A rod bearing doesn't disintegrate over 1k miles of driving on regular roads after an OEM oil change and service is performed.

If there was a pre-existing issue caused by my mis-maintaince of the vehicle it should of been apparent during the 3 prior visits to me returning it with a metallic noise.

The fact that my car never had a drive-train issue, then had 2 after bringing it to the dealer and then the 3 rd visit in a month they tell me it needs a motor.....

I'm agreeing w/you. Based on what you said the noise didn't start until after the second (?) visit. The timing between that visit and another 1K is definitely enough to kill the bearings if starved for oil. I would work with that info and lay out the timeline in a letter to BMW NA. I wouldn't outright blame the dealer but I would strongly suggest how odd and coincidental the timing is.

[Wgosma]

....let's all thank Riick for his kind and knowledgeable contributions to this thread and wish him and the plastic timing chain guides in his N20 engine a bright future-

[Riick]

I'll fill you in on a secret, don't tell anyone: All BMW timing chain guides are plastic in every engine model

[omasou]

Originally Posted by dirtydesmo

I'm just saying, if this issue was cause by me not maintaining the car properly it would of been showing itself at 89k miles.

A rod bearing doesn't disintegrate over 1k miles of driving on regular roads after an OEM oil change and service is performed.

If there was a pre-existing issue caused by my mis-maintaince of the vehicle it should of been apparent during the 3 prior visits to me returning it with a metallic noise.

The fact that my car never had a drive-train issue, then had 2 after bringing it to the dealer and then the 3 rd visit in a month they tell me it needs a motor.....

They are trying to say the engine was oil starved b/c of oil sludge related to improper oil change intervals.

You say they did something in the last three visits that caused the oil starvation. Based on the work they did, it seems plausible.

You need to prove to BMW NA that your version is correct.

Lastly, if you had sludge that threw a clot and kill the engine, why didn't the tech document the sludge on the first visit when he had the oil filter housing off?

[Iowa X3]

The initial post has been deleted so I don't have the whole story here, but piecing it together from the replies (the helpful ones, anyway), I would definitely ask them to see the sludge.

When I dealt with a local BMW stealership and BMW NA on a used X3 I purchased from a non-BMW dealership, they balked at repairing/replacing a turbo that was leaking oil into the intake under warranty, citing lack of oil change records. After a bunch of work on my behalf, I was able to track down the records of oil changes having been done by other shops through the previous owner. Once presented with that info, the BMW stealership and NA suddenly changed their story, saying they had found sludge in the engine, indicating the wrong oil was used. Why wasn't that brought up as the issue to begin with?

At that point I just washed my hands of it, took the vehicle back to the dealership I had bought it from and they credited me the purchase price. I bought another X3 through them, one that hadn't even hit 11k miles yet. Had BMW do the oil changes under the maintenance plan and I've done the oil changes every 6k miles ever since then. I've recorded myself with a GoPro while doing each of the oil changes with LL-01 certified oil and Mann filters. This way if anything happens I have proof they were done and done correctly with more than adequate parts/materials.

Looking back on it, it was probably just the oil feed line for the turbo, but I hadn't really researched it much back then. Otherwise I would have asked them about that part. I should have asked them to see the sludge.

Moral of the story - do your own research on this - ask them to see the sludge and although it doesn't guarantee action (didn't in my case), definitely get BMW NA involved.

[________]

This thread got ugly quick.

It made me regret helping this Riick guy out, what a douche... now he thinks his car has a temp problem hahaha

Gosh, someone needs to ban this Riick guy. OP, I hope you didn't delete your post because of 1 douche.

[Wgosma]

Originally Posted by OnerDriver

This thread got ugly quick.

It made me regret helping this Riick guy out, what a douche... now he thinks his car has a temp problem hahaha

Gosh, someone needs to ban this Riick guy. OP, I hope you didn't delete your post because of 1 douche.

+1...these forums are really valuable but as usual it only takes one person to wreck the conversation!