[stefan]

Originally Posted by evo-mike

Said no one, ever. Another misinformed hater who most likely has never sat in an f97/98 let alone drive one. These are nowhere near 100k. Fully loaded comp is 84k. Probably closer to 70k after discount. Sticker on mine was 80k and got it for 65k.

You can't drive 1 car and say it's the best. Last month I drove the new 911 turbo and Taycan turbo s. I prefer the 911 turbo over my x3m, but actually prefer my x3m over the Taycan. I also own an evo 9, 4 series, a Ducati and a hmmwv.

But life is full of compromises, in the x3m I get to take friends, family, my crap with me and enjoy the drive. If I didn't have any friends, family or possessions, maybe I'd get a Miata or something.

You sound defensive, but I am certainly not "an uninformed hater". I do have some very pointed opinions about what a utility vehicle should be good at though. But you threw up some bold claims about what this car is. No I didn't drive it. I opened the trunk and laughed, asking myself why anyone would consider this a vehicle with utility. Ultimately I ended up with a Durango SRT after not finding a lightly used X5M in good condition. The Durango, as much as you will poke fun, is in fact a utility vehicle. Lots of space, very cushy, and pretty quick in a straight line for what it is--certainly lots of drama/fun factor there. Does it handle, no? But I guess I speak for myself when I want to leave handling to vehicles that don't sit on stilts. To be fair I wasn't planning on bombing down canyon roads with a car full of my friends--maybe that's this car's niche? Just make sure they only bring 1 small bag each

So look man you will always get varying opinions on the old forums here. If you make bold statements, there might be some bold criticism. Glad you like your X3M! Not for me, but then really no BMW SUV is. But I get what you are saying.

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by stefan

You sound defensive, but I am certainly not "an uninformed hater". I do have some very pointed opinions about what a utility vehicle should be good at though. But you threw up some bold claims about what this car is. No I didn't drive it. I opened the trunk and laughed, asking myself why anyone would consider this a vehicle with utility. Ultimately I ended up with a Durango SRT after not finding a lightly used X5M in good condition. The Durango, as much as you will poke fun, is in fact a utility vehicle. Lots of space, very cushy, and pretty quick in a straight line for what it is--certainly lots of drama/fun factor there. Does it handle, no? But I guess I speak for myself when I want to leave handling to vehicles that don't sit on stilts. To be fair I wasn't planning on bombing down canyon roads with a car full of my friends--maybe that's this car's niche? Just make sure they only bring 1 small bag each

So look man you will always get varying opinions on the old forums here. If you make bold statements, there might be some bold criticism. Glad you like your X3M! Not for me, but then really no BMW SUV is. But I get what you are saying.

After reading this, I agree with Mike. You are an uniformed hater.

[GrandMasterKhan]

Originally Posted by stefan

You sound defensive, but I am certainly not "an uninformed hater". I do have some very pointed opinions about what a utility vehicle should be good at though. But you threw up some bold claims about what this car is. No I didn't drive it. I opened the trunk and laughed, asking myself why anyone would consider this a vehicle with utility. Ultimately I ended up with a Durango SRT after not finding a lightly used X5M in good condition. The Durango, as much as you will poke fun, is in fact a utility vehicle. Lots of space, very cushy, and pretty quick in a straight line for what it is--certainly lots of drama/fun factor there. Does it handle, no? But I guess I speak for myself when I want to leave handling to vehicles that don't sit on stilts. To be fair I wasn't planning on bombing down canyon roads with a car full of my friends--maybe that's this car's niche? Just make sure they only bring 1 small bag each

So look man you will always get varying opinions on the old forums here. If you make bold statements, there might be some bold criticism. Glad you like your X3M! Not for me, but then really no BMW SUV is. But I get what you are saying.

The Durango SRT is an excellent example of exactly what we all expect a fast SUV to be like. So, I can completely understand your point of view.

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by GrandMasterKhan

The Durango SRT is an excellent example of exactly what we all expect a fast SUV to be like. So, I can completely understand your point of view.

Yeah, no... You've got to be kidding me.

[stefan]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

Yeah, no... You've got to be kidding me.

I don't see the issue. It goes fast in a straight line and you laugh every time your floor it as the motor is a truly ridiculous dinosaur. It has outdated tech but so what? I'm not taking it canyon carving or to HPDE days. It *actually* fits your family/friends AND all their stuff. Isn't that the point? The X3M falls down here. It's too small to be actually practical. The X5M is better especially with its trunk design--just it's really expensive. My point is all SUVs are compromised in some way--just to me it doesn't make sense to compromise the UTILITY in "Sport Utility Vehicle" because the application of "Sport" doesn't make much sense. Like you're going to pile in a bunch of camping stuff, a dog, your family, and then go to the track? Who cares that it's competent? I am confident in saying I'd never use 90% of the X3Ms capability. You also wont ever catch me saying the Durango is a "great sports car" or any such claim. It's a competent SUV that is fun for weird reasons while being very, very good at taking care of your passengers and their gear.

Back to the X3M--after waxing poetic about its incredible abilities, you still lowered it and added tire to obtain "more confidence". So to meet your expectations/needs you still had to modify it by further reducing utility.

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by stefan

I don't see the issue. It goes fast in a straight line and you laugh every time your floor it as the motor is a truly ridiculous dinosaur. It has outdated tech but so what? I'm not taking it canyon carving or to HPDE days. It *actually* fits your family/friends AND all their stuff. Isn't that the point? The X3M falls down here. It's too small to be actually practical. The X5M is better especially with its trunk design--just it's really expensive. My point is all SUVs are compromised in some way--just to me it doesn't make sense to compromise the UTILITY in "Sport Utility Vehicle" because the application of "Sport" doesn't make much sense. Like you're going to pile in a bunch of camping stuff, a dog, your family, and then go to the track? Who cares that it's competent? I am confident in saying I'd never use 90% of the X3Ms capability. You also wont ever catch me saying the Durango is a "great sports car" or any such claim. It's a competent SUV that is fun for weird reasons while being very, very good at taking care of your passengers and their gear.

Back to the X3M--after waxing poetic about its incredible abilities, you still lowered it and added tire to obtain "more confidence". So to meet your expectations/needs you still had to modify it by further reducing utility.

X3M is perfect size for a young family with one or two small kids and it's an extremely fun daily driver. It is also very quick, sporty and agile for a crossover. I drive 80 miles per day, it really makes my day much more fun. And I can easily fit my golf set in there. If I needed more size, I would buy an X5M or X5 M50i. If you need plenty of size, why not getting a pickup truck or a comfy full size SUV. There are so many options out there. Why the Durango SRT of all cars? It's not like this archaic 5.5k lbs monster is sporty or visceral or even especially cheap or anything like that and that interior... well, you understand.

[GrandMasterKhan]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

Yeah, no... You've got to be kidding me.

I believe you may have misunderstood. Normally, We all expect a fast suv to be fast in a straight line, and handle like a boat.

The X3M is not what we would normally expect a fast SUV to be like. It has defied what we used to think was physically possible for an SUV. Which is why I can understand skepticism.

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by GrandMasterKhan

I believe you may have misunderstood. Normally, We all expect a fast suv to be fast in a straight line, and handle like a boat.

The X3M is not what we would normally expect a fast SUV to be like. It has defied what we used to think was physically possible for an SUV. Which is why I can understand skepticism.

Ok, thanks for clarification. To be honest with you, if I had to regularly drive a Dodge Durango SRT, I would be hating SUVs too.

[stefan]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

X3M is perfect size for a young family with one or two small kids and it's an extremely fun daily driver. It is also very quick, sporty and agile for a crossover. I drive 80 miles per day, it really makes my day much more fun. And I can easily fit my golf set in there. If I needed more size, I would buy an X5M or X5 M50i. If you need plenty of size, why not getting a pickup truck or a comfy full size SUV. There are so many options out there. Why the Durango SRT of all cars? It's not like this archaic 5.5k lbs monster is sporty or visceral or even especially cheap or anything like that and that interior... well, you understand.

Your stated needs can be met by an M3. That's the thing. I'm not hating on the fact you like it, I'm glad you do, they're fun. But they're compromised. You say small kids--small kids are the issue (seats). Big kids are easier. Anyway, like I said I'm not going to defend the Durango, but tbh, it is you that sounds like the uninformed hater. I'll say they aren't as bad as you think. I find the interior no worse than last gen BMW (not sure why anyone defends BMW interiors, up until current gen that is). With 2 kids + dog + stuff you have actually a very surprisingly narrow selection in 3R SUVs. Again--never said it was sporty. SUVs don't need to be sporty, they need to be practical--in my personal opinion. Why the SRT? Adjustable suspension, mainly, and the motor is a hoot.

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by stefan

Your stated needs can be met by an M3. That's the thing. I'm not hating on the fact you like it, I'm glad you do, they're fun. But they're compromised. You say small kids--small kids are the issue (seats). Big kids are easier. Anyway, like I said I'm not going to defend the Durango, but tbh, it is you that sounds like the uninformed hater. I'll say they aren't as bad as you think. I find the interior no worse than last gen BMW (not sure why anyone defends BMW interiors, up until current gen that is). With 2 kids + dog + stuff you have actually a very surprisingly narrow selection in 3R SUVs. Again--never said it was sporty. SUVs don't need to be sporty, they need to be practical--in my personal opinion. Why the SRT? Adjustable suspension, mainly, and the motor is a hoot.

well, you started with the trolling stupidity. anyway, enjoy your durango srt and your M2, and I will enjoy my X3M and my other cars.

Originally Posted by stefan

If I dropped $100K on an SUV with an M badge, I'd probably try to convince myself its the perfect sports car too.

[Max Well]

Originally Posted by stefan

Your stated needs can be met by an M3. That's the thing. I'm not hating on the fact you like it, I'm glad you do, they're fun. But they're compromised. ... Again--never said it was sporty. SUVs don't need to be sporty, they need to be practical--in my personal opinion. ...

I try to ignore posts which appear inflammatory (although some may just be dogmatically opinionated and wish to share, which is fine), but at some point, I feel an obligation to contribute on a topic which interests me when it veers from reality.

The M3, as wonderful a construct it is, comes nowhere close to meeting my needs. The M2 would certainly be worse in that regards (from a utility standpoint). Not all of us can afford a utility vehicle and a car just for fun, so from a pragmatic standpoint, BMW M provided us with the F97/98 series. There must be a reason so many M3/M4 Drivers have transitioned to this line, right?

You mentioned in one of your earlier posts about this being an "old" Forum, and perhaps you meant one that might be populated by an older age group than the M2 series you might read? At some stages of life we do have to make decisions which best fit our needs. Just because some begin a family, or have to be able to haul cargo on a frequent basis, doesn't require that they give up the desire for a fun driving experience.

I don't quite understand why some who enjoy small coupes and sedans seem to feel threatened that Mnfrs are making high performance vehicles for those who need more than those provide. No one is saying the F97/98 line is better than the other lines (or if they have, I apologize in advance that I haven't seen those). And no one is trying to dilute the M brand or any other high performance Mnfr line. But reality is reality. We need to be able to make our finances work in the real world, and thankfully BMW and other Mnfrs realize this. It isn't always about the Corporate greed which some write about, at least in my humble opinion - they have listened to what everyday folks who enjoy driving and performance and handling desire, and yes, some of us like this line and appreciate BMW and other Mnfrs for spending thousands of hours and billions of dollars designing and producing. And yes, some of us do take these to the Track and Strip, and have turned a lot of heads (not that it was our intent to do so).

So from an 'old' Forum Member, would honestly, and respectfully, just recommend relaxing a bit on your stance. We're all in this realm together, trying to own a vehicle which meets our needs yet still provides us that great smile when we hit the road. I enjoy reading the other sub-Forums (although most of my time is spent here), and I don't ever feel threatened that one is better than the other - they are all 'compromises', every single one - just depends on your perspective as to what is most important.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[Will Pwr]

GrandMasterKhan Great write up..appreciate and agree with you on your sentiments of the X3M as well

I also love the S2K and EVO9! Are those CEs on both of them too?

[robopp]

Originally Posted by stefan

Your stated needs can be met by an M3. That's the thing. I'm not hating on the fact you like it, I'm glad you do, they're fun. But they're compromised. You say small kids--small kids are the issue (seats). Big kids are easier. Anyway, like I said I'm not going to defend the Durango, but tbh, it is you that sounds like the uninformed hater. I'll say they aren't as bad as you think. I find the interior no worse than last gen BMW (not sure why anyone defends BMW interiors, up until current gen that is). With 2 kids + dog + stuff you have actually a very surprisingly narrow selection in 3R SUVs. Again--never said it was sporty. SUVs don't need to be sporty, they need to be practical--in my personal opinion. Why the SRT? Adjustable suspension, mainly, and the motor is a hoot.

An M3 will not meet my needs. Not even close. My needs are met by my X3MC and a 991.2 GT3. I can pack up the kid and dog stuff in the X3M, when needed, and 'daily' the GT3. The wife has an S6 so all our bases are covered. An F80 M3 can maybe scratch some of these itches, but ultimately falls flat in total. RPM, cargo space, V8 growl, handling, etc.

[floating.spirit]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

X3M is not a motorsport vehicle, and neither are X4M, X5M, X6M, M5, and M8. M no longer stands for Motorsport and neither do AMG or RS. These badges stand for Performance. If M would only be making motorsport vehicles, this BMW division would be dead by now. Ok? Because nobody really needs a motorsport vehicle at home and very, very few people live close enough to a motorsport track. What people really want from an M car is high hp, quick acceleration, and decent handling, and this all paired with everyday practicality. In this sense X3M is the perfect epitome of a modern M car, regardless whether so-called "purists" agree with this or not.

Uhm, you said you wouldn't respond...

[GrandMasterKhan]

Hey guys! Took my 2nd trip to the Tail of the Dragon, this time I was able to meet up with some fellow BMW buddies and provide some videos and photos! I'll let the images do the talking!

2020 M2 Comp vs 2020 M240i vs 2020 X3M. All 3 are on stock tires.


X3M cornering!


For comparison here is an X3M40i


fun run down 28

M240i filming... X3M chased by C5 on worn Hoosiers

chase cam from the X3M vs C5

Chase cam from the X3M vs M240i

Chill run with the M2 leading

I have some more vidoes coming up soon, once they process and upload.

[GrandMasterKhan]

More videos!

[richard in NC]

The Tail of the Dragon is always on my list to visit. The X3M should do well. I took my M2C there in May this year.

[GrandMasterKhan]

So I did a thing!

I traded in yesterday for a '22 X3M Competition LCI.


Initial impression: Full review coming soon!

-BMW really listened everyone's comments on the suspension. It is smoother, and the shaking back/forth over uneven surfaces is resolved and its smoother over rough pavement. Honestly, I kind of miss the more raw suspension, but its easier to daily drive. If feels slightly less sharp on initial turn in which I miss. I need more time behind the wheel.

The live cockpit and I-Drive 7 is GREAT. The Stop and Go traffic assistant is much improved.

Overall its Wonderful and I love the color and especially the wheels and tailights.

Keep your eyes peeled for an updated review when I get past the break-in service.

[MaxGainz]

Love the wheels!

[kozzi]

Great post Kenneth. We are also enjoying our X3MC to the max. We are a 1 vehicle family of 5 that enjoys the outdoors and the spirited runs getting there!

This is hands down one of the best performance SAVs on the market with plenty of utility and performance that would make most cars cry...on and off the road. Some folks will just never understand that.

[jzmundy]

Snapped a few pics of your new one today! What a small world. Beautiful car. Considering ordering one for myself soon.

[Kevin_The_Clean1]

Originally Posted by Max Well

I try to ignore posts which appear inflammatory (although some may just be dogmatically opinionated and wish to share, which is fine), but at some point, I feel an obligation to contribute on a topic which interests me when it veers from reality.

The M3, as wonderful a construct it is, comes nowhere close to meeting my needs. The M2 would certainly be worse in that regards (from a utility standpoint). Not all of us can afford a utility vehicle and a car just for fun, so from a pragmatic standpoint, BMW M provided us with the F97/98 series. There must be a reason so many M3/M4 Drivers have transitioned to this line, right?

You mentioned in one of your earlier posts about this being an "old" Forum, and perhaps you meant one that might be populated by an older age group than the M2 series you might read? At some stages of life we do have to make decisions which best fit our needs. Just because some begin a family, or have to be able to haul cargo on a frequent basis, doesn't require that they give up the desire for a fun driving experience.

I don't quite understand why some who enjoy small coupes and sedans seem to feel threatened that Mnfrs are making high performance vehicles for those who need more than those provide. No one is saying the F97/98 line is better than the other lines (or if they have, I apologize in advance that I haven't seen those). And no one is trying to dilute the M brand or any other high performance Mnfr line. But reality is reality. We need to be able to make our finances work in the real world, and thankfully BMW and other Mnfrs realize this. It isn't always about the Corporate greed which some write about, at least in my humble opinion - they have listened to what everyday folks who enjoy driving and performance and handling desire, and yes, some of us like this line and appreciate BMW and other Mnfrs for spending thousands of hours and billions of dollars designing and producing. And yes, some of us do take these to the Track and Strip, and have turned a lot of heads (not that it was our intent to do so).

So from an 'old' Forum Member, would honestly, and respectfully, just recommend relaxing a bit on your stance. We're all in this realm together, trying to own a vehicle which meets our needs yet still provides us that great smile when we hit the road. I enjoy reading the other sub-Forums (although most of my time is spent here), and I don't ever feel threatened that one is better than the other - they are all 'compromises', every single one - just depends on your perspective as to what is most important.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Excellent post & well said...