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XBimmers | BMW X3 Forum BMW X3/X4 Forums (2018 - 2024) BMW X3M (F97) and X4M (F98) General Forum (2018+) 2020 BMW X3M (F97) X4M (F87) Official Thread: Information, Specs, Wallpapers, Videos

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      02-15-2019, 09:48 PM   #375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mako View Post
I think thats a M3 in front of it, if it is then this is a good photo to show SO vs TR color.

Also note that BMW Blog says they were not allowed to take interior photos, makes you wonder if thats because this car has the "updated dash" that is rumored to come with August production... although the Nav screen in this photo doesn't appear slanted like the new 3 series.
That is sunset orange on an M2 comp. Man TR looks good in overcast light. Wish I had the balls to buy a big red 500 hp car.
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      02-15-2019, 10:08 PM   #376
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Presario View Post
FYI - X3M’s 265 40 21 has wider tread than M40i’s 275 35 21.
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Originally Posted by Who's on first View Post
Um...
Lol sounds counterintuitive but actual width is also dependent on profile height. A 265 40 21 P4S has a wider tread width than a 275 35 21 P4S. Check out tirerack and look at the specs for the P4S. Tread width of 9.5 vs 9.2 respectively.
But that 295/35-21 looks like a beautiful replacement size wise 🤔
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      02-15-2019, 10:44 PM   #377
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Presario View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Presario View Post
FYI - X3M's 265 40 21 has wider tread than M40i's 275 35 21.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Who's on first View Post
Um...
Lol sounds counterintuitive but actual width is also dependent on profile height. A 265 40 21 P4S has a wider tread width than a 275 35 21 P4S. Check out tirerack and look at the specs for the P4S. Tread width of 9.5 vs 9.2 respectively.
That's not how it works though.....?

The first three numbers are the width of the tire in MM. Second 2 numbers is the height measured in a percentage of the width to get the height.

So a 265 is always less wide than a 275.

https://www.goodyearautoservice.com/...sics/tire-size
https://www.tirebuyer.com/education/...izes-and-types
https://www.bridgestonetire.com/trea...ize-for-my-car

What's variable is the height because it's a percentage of a width so 305/45 will be taller than a 205/55.

I think we may be focusing on the wrong measurement. You need to looks at section width and not tread width, which can highly vary as there is no set way to measure tread width.

Here is a good explanation:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiret...jsp?techid=200
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiret...jsp?techid=201

Basically it depends on the rim, inflation, load etc. But generally a 275>265 in width regardless of height but can appear to vary depending on measurement
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      02-15-2019, 10:46 PM   #378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mako View Post
I think thats a M3 in front of it, if it is then this is a good photo to show SO vs TR color.

Also note that BMW Blog says they were not allowed to take interior photos, makes you wonder if thats because this car has the "updated dash" that is rumored to come with August production... although the Nav screen in this photo doesn't appear slanted like the new 3 series.
It's a Sunset Orange M2C...but thanks for the comparison...did you enjoy Thermal? So weird to see it raining there!
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      02-15-2019, 11:06 PM   #379
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Presario View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Presario View Post
FYI - X3M’s 265 40 21 has wider tread than M40i’s 275 35 21.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Who's on first View Post
Um...
Lol sounds counterintuitive but actual width is also dependent on profile height. A 265 40 21 P4S has a wider tread width than a 275 35 21 P4S. Check out tirerack and look at the specs for the P4S. Tread width of 9.5 vs 9.2 respectively.
Um.... no.

It's not counterintuitive.

275 is always a higher number than 265.


Maths.
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      02-15-2019, 11:23 PM   #380
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Who's on first View Post
Um.... no.

It's not counterintuitive.

275 is always a higher number than 265.


Maths.
Iím going off of tirerackís tread width measurements for those tire sizes. 275 tire is of course wider bc itís in mm but the contact of the tread is wider for the 265 40 on the P4S than the 275 35 P4S. Thatís all Iím sayin. Canít explain it.
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      02-15-2019, 11:33 PM   #381
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Not saying whether it's worth it or not, but it's priced right where it's supposed to be. Keep in mind, the Porsches have literally zero options, so they'll cost far more than those starting prices posted.

As much as I like the X3M, I'd probably rather have an M2C + 4Runner DD combo. Right car for the right job, not to mention 6MT

That's just the reality of these new cars. Half decent Honda Accords are 30k+ now, while F80's can be easily $80k if you aren't careful.
This quote right here makes me want to do the same M2C + some DD route too.

I always wanted the F80 and used market can get me good deal. Though I've been having a need for light SUV like the X3. This X3M basically does both and I'm not one to swap cars every 3-5 years. Dat M2C is mighty good for the price and fun factor especially with manual.
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      02-15-2019, 11:56 PM   #382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Presario View Post
I’m going off of tirerack’s tread width measurements for those tire sizes. 275 tire is of course wider bc it’s in mm but the contact of the tread is wider for the 265 40 on the P4S than the 275 35 P4S. That’s all I’m sayin. Can’t explain it.
You are looking at the 275/35/21 which is a Mercedes Benz special tire so they may have some funky measurements and it is listed as tread width less than 265. If you look at the 275/30 it is 9.7" tread width.

If anyone wants to stick with PS4S, there are currently no good options available for upsizing tread width on 21" wheels while keeping close stagger and equal diameters front to rear. This may be a large reason why the spec is 255 front and 265 rear. It's what's available for PS4S on 21" wheels at ~29" tire diameter.

You could fit 295/35/21 on rear but then what do you put on the front? 255/40 is closest diameter but 40 mm stagger which may be fine but is far from OEM design. 265/40 probably works but then you have a slightly larger diameter tire in the front and still 30 mm stagger. OEM setup is 1.1% taller in rear vs front. If you run 265/295 then you swap and have front tire 0.8% taller than rear. Maybe this makes no difference or maybe it messes with the xDrive and traction control.
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      02-16-2019, 12:18 AM   #383
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ibiza View Post
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Originally Posted by hellrotm View Post
Any explanation why the X3M is 150+lbs heavier than a GLC63 with a heavy V8TT?
I'm speculating it's all the suspension and chassis reinforcement in an attempt to make a 2 ton SUV handle remotely like a sports car. This is my main gripe with these performance SUVs. They're trying to make something inherently non-sporty in to something sporty just by throwing a ton of horsepower and low profile tires at it, ruining the ride Comfort and negating it's role as a utility vehicle. You're left with owning a fast, uncomfortable, tire hungry, gas thirsty elephant to show off to your neighbors and not much else.
I disagree with ride comfort ruined. My X5M with 21 inch tires is comfortable to drive/ride in, but coastal SC has smooth roads. No pot holes to deal with. One of my BMW NA contacts told me the F85/F86 has the most comfortable seats in the product line-up.

I agree that it's a gas thirsty, but in a low cost fuel state (SC) it's relative as the X3M with the S58 will have better MPG than the V8 S63.
I dunno I only have my X3 M40i with adaptive suspension and the smallest wheel option (19") to compare to. So Cal has relatively good roads but even in Comfort the ride is pretty firm. In Sport Mode it's almost as harsh as the M3. Can't imagine with even stiffer suspension and 21" wheels. Maybe I expect too much ride Comfort out of an SUV? But I thought that's the point of one?
The M SUV customer prefers the firmer ride, being thrown into the back of your seat when accelerating, and hitting turns hard. I was out to SoCal last month at Thermal as premium gas is double what I'm paying in SC. Probably would pass on the gas guzzler S63 then, but in coastal SC able to let the engine breath by opening her up due to significantly less traffic than the major metro areas. The Northeast customers would be crazy for 21" low profile tires, as the pot holes would damage a lot of tires. If I lived in Atlanta, an i3 would be my daily driver, not a F83/F85 combo.
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      02-16-2019, 12:26 AM   #384
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Quote:
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You are looking at the 275/35/21 which is a Mercedes Benz special tire so they may have some funky measurements and it is listed as tread width less than 265.
Known for a fact that BMW M engineers test multiple tire set ups during product development and could have any tire size manufactured. Didn't the F85/F86 have tires developed specially by Michelin for that platform? Engineers must have felt that this was the best tire set up for the X3M/X4M, as Michelin has a plant in the SC upstate, as well a product development center at the Ring.
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      02-16-2019, 07:19 AM   #385
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Let me tell you'll we are so distracted off topic
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      02-16-2019, 08:51 AM   #386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Well View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
I would likely go for glass roof delete. I'm sure it weighs a LOT more than 57 lbs. These things can weigh 100-200 lbs all in.
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Originally Posted by Ibiza View Post
It's not going to happen for the US market. The X3 M40i has option 402 as standard, which means moonroof is standard for US X3M/X4M. Due to DOT safety testing, if BMW NA has 402 standard for certification, then it can not be deleted. No way around it, unless you import a euro spec roof with 402 deleted and retro yourself.
A Dealer allowed me to measure a used 2016 F15’s Panorama roof – 35” x 42”, or 1470 in sq. Therefore, 103.45 lbs./1470 in sq yields 0.0703 lbs./in sq. Using that to estimate the weight of X3M’s moon roof – 0.0703 lbs./in sq x 1800 in sq = 126.6 lbs. for the X3M Moon roof. Subtracting 15 lbs. for what the Aluminum OEM part of that space is (if moon roof deleted), yields 112 lbs erased off the highest point where it yields the most benefit.

Once the weight distribution %’s are known one can roughly quantify the significance for improving the CG and SSF (static stability factor, equals [track width/2] divided by CG height). For my previous calculations based on Curb wt of 4317 lbs and moon roof wt of 67 lbs., the CG was lowered 1” and the SSF improved from 1.26 to a near car-like 1.32. Obviously moon roof delete of 112 lbs. will be even more significant. Loads of online sites review and discuss these terms if you search CG and SSF and desire more background on the subject.

As the US Govt and Automotive Industry have worked diligently for > 15 years to lower rollover accidents, most common in SUVs and Pick-ups, by stressing the value in lowering CG and raising SSF in vehicle design, it is incomprehensible to me that BMW wouldn’t/couldn’t get quick approval from Govt agencies on this simple request of replacing a heavy moon roof with a solid OEM aluminum version here in the US. The FDA has proven it can fast track meds which clearly show significant clinical benefit when side effect data support safety. And in this case, extensive literature and studies documenting the critical benefits of making such changes to SUVs are readily available, fully endorsed and encouraged by the NHTSA of the DOT, which actually demanded ‘Rollover resistance ratings. And there is no expense to BMW as they already have a solid roof going on X3Ms to other countries. It’s one thing for the ’18 G01 models in the US to not get the M Sport steering wheel, but this is a totally different ballgame and one that clearly impacts safety. And although a CFRP roof would have been even more helpful, it probably only removes an additional 18 lbs. over the OEM solid Al roof so hard to be dogmatic on that, even though I lobbied heavily for it and still think it should be an option for M Enthusiasts.

So if Ibiza is correct in his assertion that US X3M owners will not be able to delete the Moon Roof from our orders, a choice which would clearly improve our safety and the stability of our X3M (and thereby improve handling and cornering and surely skid pad data), perhaps some calls to NHTSA and DOT are in order to see what they could recommend …
Still hoping it's possible to delete moonroof as other models had the ability. I'd also note the X3 3.0 is available in the US without a moonroof if you don't select the convenience package.
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      02-16-2019, 09:53 AM   #387
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Quote:
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In all seriousness, didn't BMW already crash the X3M without the fat kid on the roof in the EU? They do test for safety there, right?
Indeed they did. https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/bmw/x3-/-x4/33285 See image #7 (sans Moon Roof). And Euro NCAP Crash testing of G01 X3 2017, applies across all engine and model types.

Euro NCAP is one of the nine partner NCAPs making up the Global NCAP - http://www.globalncap.org/ncaps/ . IIHS is one of the partners as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ando View Post
Still hoping it's possible to delete moonroof as other models had the ability. I'd also note the X3 3.0 is available in the US without a moonroof if you don't select the convenience package.
That's encouraging, ando - I wasn't aware of that. Everything I've been able to read indicates crash standards apply across all engine sizes of a vehicle's model line. So if the X3 30i is available without the moon roof, it would be illogical to not be permissible in the X3M (or M40i for that matter). It would make some sense if one were trying to go the opposite way, though (of adding a heavy moon roof which makes a car less stable by raising the CG and lowering the SSF).
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      02-16-2019, 03:35 PM   #388
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all these M suv is lame, no z4 coupe or z4m but X3//4/5/6 M I guess I'm visiting toyota soon for the new supra. when first x5 came out I didn't hate suv but now I do.
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      02-16-2019, 04:17 PM   #389
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Thanks for sharing
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      02-16-2019, 04:38 PM   #390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EggFreak View Post
all these M suv is lame, no z4 coupe or z4m but X3//4/5/6 M I guess I'm visiting toyota soon for the new supra. when first x5 came out I didn't hate suv but now I do.
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      02-16-2019, 05:12 PM   #391
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all these M suv is lame, no z4 coupe or z4m but X3//4/5/6 M I guess I'm visiting toyota soon for the new supra. when first x5 came out I didn't hate suv but now I do.
sharing is caring

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      02-16-2019, 05:25 PM   #392
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Some are talking about a LCI version. When do we think this will happen?
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      02-16-2019, 05:50 PM   #393
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Some are talking about a LCI version. When do we think this will happen?
2021 (actual year, 2022 model year) so you will have to wait 2 more years
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      02-16-2019, 06:14 PM   #394
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2021 (actual year, 2022 model year) so you will have to wait 2 more years
End of production is 11/23 so Iím thinking the LCI might come sooner than the typical 2022 model year cycle. Iíd guess maybe spring of 2021 for an early MY 2022 release. This is just me speculating though.
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      02-16-2019, 06:57 PM   #395
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjornb View Post
Some are talking about a LCI version. When do we think this will happen?
2021 (actual year, 2022 model year) so you will have to wait 2 more years
While true, the new live dash etc starts in August for the X3/4M. See last few pages of: Upcoming BMW model pipeline preview info - from G29 and G06 to F92 and beyond https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=901686
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      02-16-2019, 11:55 PM   #396
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Originally Posted by EggFreak View Post
all these M suv is lame, no z4 coupe or z4m but X3//4/5/6 M I guess I'm visiting toyota soon for the new supra. when first x5 came out I didn't hate suv but now I do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PureModelsOnly View Post
Lol Supra is a Z4 underneath and will probably be marked up more than a Z4 because of marketing hype.
That is the point he is making. He has to go to Toyota to get the BMW many have been asking for. I’ve seen a number of people with msrp deals lined up.
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