[Neusser]

Originally Posted by ASAP

i dont know any bmw at this point that wouldnt be thought of as heavy... an m3 xdrive is 3900 lbs and the new m5 will weigh more than an f150 crew cab (thats not a joke)... so all thats left is the tall part

Weight is not negated just because you feel all BMWs are heavy these days. SUVs are nearly always heavier, and by quite a bit.

The second part (chassis height) is one of the most critical for a sporty car of any type. An SUV will never be a sports car. It won't even be a sporty wagon or sedan.

They can be tuned to feel sporty at 7/10, but they will never handle as well as something lighter and lower to the ground.

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by TXGrey

Tho I do agree 100% with the first statement…. Comepletely disagree with the last one. Tech has come so far in this era, that smaller CUVs can handle remarkably well (even at track speeds)… hence videos of Macan GTSs and X3M Comps passing sports cars on a track (which we all know has a zillion variables, not just the car itself)… But the point is, saying a CUV doesn’t handle well is kind of dated statement IMO. Some of them handle extremely well, all things considered. Having said that, WOULD I want to throw a CUV around a track? Personally, no, I wouldn’t…. Again, going back to your comment about physics. Why fight it? But of course, to each their own. I’d be willing to bet a Macan GTS or an X3M would handle its own just fine in the twisties with 95% of the sports cars out there (minus GT3, GT4, and of course M3/4 Comp).

Now, saying that they don’t handle AS WELL AS (insert performance vehicle name here), that’s a different argument. Still - I get your point… and completely get the vast amount of target market that’s being catered to here.

I appreciate the civil and detailed response.

I don't disagree that they can feel sporty at 7/10, and depending on power, track type, and driver they can put on a decent show.

But the laws of physics are what they are. If you have a G30 and an X5, the G30 will be superior to the X5 when both are tuned for performance/driving dynamics. Weight aside, the fundamental drawbacks of a high-riding chassis cannot be overcome in context.

Of course a key reason a car like an X5 would classically be high riding is to deal with rough terrain. But that is the rub with road-oriented SUVs. For me, they are pointless outside of family hauling/grocery getting. The equivalent sedan or wagon is always a better drive.

[TXGrey]

Originally Posted by Neusser

I appreciate the civil and detailed response.

I don't disagree that they can feel sporty at 7/10, and depending on power, track type, and driver they can put on a decent show.

But the laws of physics are what they are. If you have a G30 and an X5, the G30 will be superior to the X5 when both are tuned for performance/driving dynamics. Weight aside, the fundamental drawbacks of a high-riding chassis cannot be overcome in context.

Of course a key reason a car like an X5 would classically be high riding is to deal with rough terrain. But that is the rub with road-oriented SUVs. For me, they are pointless outside of family hauling/grocery getting. The equivalent sedan or wagon is always a better drive.

Oh completely agree. I pushed my Macan GTS once or twice to about 8 out of 10… scared the living snot out of me (and I don’t scare easily behind the wheel). White-knuckle grip, yelling at myself immediately after physics came into play…. “IT’S a _____ng SUV YOU JACKA$$!… not a 911!” …right back down to reality. A good dose of humility is nice from time to time.

[Kevin_The_Clean1]

Originally Posted by Neusser

SUVs don't drive well due to basic physics. Heavy and tall are two attributes you do not want in a driver's car.



Road-oriented SUVs are for getting groceries.

Agree with first comment. As stated before, some of them are big heavy tall semi sloppy machines. Definitely disagree with your second comment though. Just like others have mentioned (that are much more familiar with the G01 platform & actually have one in their driveways) the F97 X3 M is no joke. It punches well above its weight & easily competes with dedicated sports cars. Can other SUV's do what a X3 MC does & should any of them be compared to this sick machine... ? Absolutely not.

If you don't believe me, check this out & give it a gander before you lump in a purposely track built F97 X3 MC with the rest of them. Blanket statement assumptions & vague insults towards ALL SUV's are the exact reason I smile every single time I take my "slightly modified" X3 MC to a track (to compete with others that have lighter & lower sports cars). This "M3 of the SUV world" is a record holding SAV that most the others simply can't hold a candle to in any regard. Again, don't just take my word for it. One with "basic bolt-ons" competed with many heavily modified Corvettes & Porches on a track. Not sure what more proof you need to modify some of your last statements. So I'll rewrite the script for you.

NOT ALL SUV'S ARE BUILT / DESIGNED / CREATED THE SAME. SOME OF THEM ARE ACTUALLY RESPECTED BY MOST PEOPLE ON THE STREET & TRACK. Therefore, NO... not all SUVs are for getting groceries. Some where actually built to quickly hand many people their ass on & off a track...





The Dinan X3M driven by Randy Pobst has officially completed the 2022 One Lap of America competition and earned a 1st in class, and 9th overall (of 80+ entries) finish. An impressive feat for... vehicle with basic bolt on modifications competing against highly modified and track prepped adversaries.

https://www.dinancars.com/blog/post/...ap_of_america/

[Tomduck]

Road-oriented SUVs are for getting groceries.

Or for wafting people around in comfort, with great visibility as oppsoed to sitting low down with less space.

To me premium SUVs are like travelling in long haul Club or First class as opposed to economy with many other cars. The older I get and the more roads get confested I carr far more about that than driving quickly with ultimate road adhesion! 😉

[jb001]

Fingers crossed for 400 ish HP plug in hybrid. 300HP 2.0 litre petrol, combined with 100HP electric motor. The new X1 plug in hybrid already makes well over 300HP…

[Neshev]

Few questions if it's already know for the plugin hybrid (30e xDrive):
1. Is it going to be 2.0 or 3.0 litre engine?
2. is the electric range already known?
3. Is the 30e Trunk (boot) space already known?
4. Is there going to be optional air suspension? GLC has it so you don't have to go to GLE to get it

Thanks!

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by Neshev

Few questions if it's already know for the plugin hybrid (30e xDrive):
1. Is it going to be 2.0 or 3.0 litre engine?
2. is the electric range already known?
3. Is the 30e Trunk (boot) space already known?
4. Is there going to be optional air suspension? GLC has it so you don't have to go to GLE to get it

Thanks!

The powertrain is the same as G60 530e. X3 is too basic on the BMW scale to get air suspension. No other details.

[kozzi]

Originally Posted by Tomduck

Road-oriented SUVs are for getting groceries.

Or for wafting people around in comfort, with great visibility as oppsoed to sitting low down with less space.

To me premium SUVs are like travelling in long haul Club or First class as opposed to economy with many other cars. The older I get and the more roads get confested I carr far more about that than driving quickly with ultimate road adhesion! 😉

Don't be so closed minded.

You have a family of 5 with a dog in NYC with only 1 parking spot...what would you get? A mini-van? Would you take a touring camping? How about that 2 seater?

Lots of information on the killer performance but they are more than just "getting groceries"

https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...&postcount=115

I apoligize but I'm too lazy to post more pics

[Tomduck]

Originally Posted by kozzi

Don't be so closed minded.

You have a family of 5 with a dog in NYC with only 1 parking spot...what would you get? A mini-van? Would you take a touring camping? How about that 2 seater?

Lots of information on the killer performance but they are more than just "getting groceries"

https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...&postcount=115

I apoligize but I'm too lazy to post more pics

I’m not closed minded as the first part of my post was quoting another post, pay attention

I love my X1, as you may understand if you read the rest of my post

[tolder]

Is there any confirmation on if the new x30e Plug in Hybrid will be available in the United States again? I am disappointed BMW decided to discontinue them in 2021 only in the US but continued to sell in Canada and Europe.

[Neshev]

Will it there be a 30d in Europe? I don't see it in the first round of available engines so not sure if it's being dropped or it will be out there later in time.

[farns2345]

reveal date?

[hyde]

Originally Posted by kozzi

Don't be so closed minded.

You have a family of 5 with a dog in NYC with only 1 parking spot...what would you get? A mini-van? Would you take a touring camping? How about that 2 seater?

Lots of information on the killer performance but they are more than just "getting groceries"

https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...&postcount=115

I apoligize but I'm too lazy to post more pics

Is that upstate, what's your favorite green spots to visit? I'm originally from NYC but moved out to suffolk, love the green and open space but I miss the mountains and rivers of Hudson Valley.

[kozzi]

Originally Posted by hyde

Is that upstate, what's your favorite green spots to visit? I'm originally from NYC but moved out to suffolk, love the green and open space but I miss the mountains and rivers of Hudson Valley.

That's up in Broome County (Newark Valley area) about 3 hours NW from NYC. Have a large property up there that a large creek runs through which makes for awesome camping, fishing, hunting and just some great outdoor fun. Plan is to retire up there 3-4 months out of the year and just enjoy nature and the changing seasons. By then I'll retire the X3M and probably pick up an M2 and leave the "off-road" stuff to something I can abuse and not have to drive like a snail. Leatherstocking country can do some serious damage to vehicles as I'm sure you already know.

Also just spent a long weekend in Windham...the thorny terrain is not as treacherous but beautiful nonetheless.

[hyde]

Originally Posted by kozzi

That's up in Broome County (Newark Valley area) about 3 hours NW from NYC. Have a large property up there that a large creek runs through which makes for awesome camping, fishing, hunting and just some great outdoor fun. Plan is to retire up there 3-4 months out of the year and just enjoy nature and the changing seasons. By then I'll retire the X3M and probably pick up an M2 and leave the "off-road" stuff to something I can abuse and not have to drive like a snail. Leatherstocking country can do some serious damage to vehicles as I'm sure you already know.

Also just spent a long weekend in Windham...the thorny terrain is not as treacherous but beautiful nonetheless.

Sounds like a very good plan. Get an old jeep for those muddy days. I love northeast. You drive 4 hours in any direction and it's a whole different world.

[swestland85]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

The powertrain is the same as G60 530e. X3 is too basic on the BMW scale to get air suspension. No other details.

I think you must be right, well is relatively good news. The 530e has 60l fuel tank capacity and an electrical range of approx 100km. For me that's quite acceptable, too bad BMW isn't going to offer any more powerful hybrids in the X3. The 530e has 299hp, but to a comparable XC60 T8, they offer a 455hp. I understand BMW offers more powerful petrol engines but in the Netherlands those are very heavily taxed.

[rpschultz13]

So sticking with the B48 it sounds like for the bulk of X3's?

[Dilbert2402]

Read with interest that there could be rwd and 4wd plug in hybrids on the way. I've often wondered why the hybrid wasn't based on the rwd drivetrain.

[XClan]

Originally Posted by tolder

Is there any confirmation on if the new x30e Plug in Hybrid will be available in the United States again? I am disappointed BMW decided to discontinue them in 2021 only in the US but continued to sell in Canada and Europe.

This needs an answer.

[Keweenawbee]

This is getting as frustrating as waiting for the G01 was. I know I want a 6 cylinder and either real buttons or greatly enhanced gesture controls.

[Jen4BMW]

In the new G45 M50 I want a new sporty exterior design, new colors, optional AS and/or better comfort and handling, a new interesting, upscale interior that includes climate buttons and better X5 like seats.

If they offered the 50e hybrid power train in the G45 that would also peek my interest.

I am on my 3rd X3 and M40i lease is up in September. I’ve grown really bored with the X3 overall. Come on BMW… release your pics and stop playing the suspense game. This isn’t a new Ferrari. Your just hurting yourself at this point.