[Max Well]

Originally Posted by epiphone3

I don't know why any BMW fan would celebrate these numbers considering the BMW is supposed to be the ultimate driving machine and the Mercedes wiped the floor with the BMW in road-holding and braking and matched the BMW in acceleration. Are we really celebrating the superior fuel economy in a performance SUV category when the Mercedes beat us in performance? Pains me to see this given I've been a BMW fan for 33 years.

As a few have mentioned, the full details of the test aren't provided in the online article, or if so I didn't find them, with the most important being the tires if one is to make much sense out of these numbers. They're interesting but doubt they are the new gold standard as more comparisons will surely be released. Agree the SQ5 should've been included.

I put together a chart as I didn't quite understand how the GLC 'wiped the floor' in braking (4 ft difference out of 158 feet at 70 mph), and max cornering of .07 g without any data on the tires provided. To isolate the g without tire info, driver skill set, actual road courses and telemetry, ..., isn't that a stretch to assume that will translate to real world (not track) driving, even if tires were equal?

What I have already used real world - the G01's 0.5 seconds faster passing acceleration 50-70 than the GLC, many times already during recent trips. And I have already had our X3 G01's range extended significantly over our 2015 X3 35i's range when we got the surprising 29.1 mpg. To be honest I didn't even know our EPA numbers before our trip, so I had planned on stopping for gas as I have had to do with our 2015, but didn't need to. So not that one is celebrating fuel economy so much for price point comparison of fuel savings, but it clearly extends usable range which for us is a great by-product. The GLC has a 17.4 gal fuel capacity, at 23 mpg highway, that's 400 miles. The G01 has a 17.7 gal tank, at 29 mpg (confirmed) highway, that's 513 miles. That is 113 miles more range.

We've owned MB and they produce excellent vehicles, but in comparing objective measures it seems reasonable to consider which variables actually are relevant in daily use (not discussing track). Subjective views will always differ, which is a good thing as we all have a decent set of choices in this SAV/SUV segment now.

[spuntyb]

Originally Posted by epiphone3

I don't know why any BMW fan would celebrate these numbers considering the BMW is supposed to be the ultimate driving machine and the Mercedes wiped the floor with the BMW in road-holding and braking and matched the BMW in acceleration.

Are we really celebrating the superior fuel economy in a performance SUV category when the Mercedes beat us in performance?

Pains me to see this given I've been a BMW fan for 33 years.

Agreed. Most of the acclaim is in regard to the available power. But if they can't make it fun to drive, I don't see the cause for celebration. M40i wasn't available to test drive when I was looking, so I went with a Macan GTS (which I'm surprised they didn't test against here since the S is the base V6 against the top spec X3, but okay), but I can't imagine the X3 will be any better to drive. Maybe the X3M will be the one to do the job?

[SpenceRx]

This new X3 is a monster. I can't wait to try one out.

[ND40oz]

I didn't post these charts in the OP, but front-seat passenger, back-seat passenger and cargo area volume is another good comparison point for this class of vehicle.

Front-seat Passenger Space


Back-seat Passenger Space




The X3 also has a significant amount more of under floor storage in the rear.



The X3 also appears to be the quietest at 70 mph, that can be a good or bad thing depending on what you're looking for.

[starbai]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

This is the "AMG" version. Much like the M40i is the "M" version. The X3M will compete against the true AMG, the GLC AMG63

this.

MB's got multi 'AMG's now.

[beammeupscottie]

X3M; that is all.

[sor]

I see X3 hauls a lot of balls, lol. It is strange that they started the cargo measurement bars at 0 being about half way. Looks like all of the charts are skewed somewhat in this regard.

[KGB_123_99]

I must be behind the nomenclature again because I am confused by the M40i naming. Is this an equivalent to m-performance trim? Do other BMW vehicles have M40i (or M50i) as part of the model designation?

[Bimar]

Originally Posted by PawnStar

There, I fixed it for ya

[goj]

Car and driver tested a non m sport 2015 on all seasons and got a .83g road holding so it seems inline with that.

I'm going to be real though, I don't want summer tires on a car like this.

Seems like a perfect match for some good Conti DWS 06s

[goj]

Originally Posted by KGB_123_99

I must be behind the nomenclature again because I am confused by the M40i naming. Is this an equivalent to m-performance trim? Do other BMW vehicles have M40i (or M50i) as part of the model designation?

Yes you're correct m40i is m performance trim for X3 the M50i would likely be the new X5

[sor]

Originally Posted by KGB_123_99

I must be behind the nomenclature again because I am confused by the M40i naming. Is this an equivalent to m-performance trim? Do other BMW vehicles have M40i (or M50i) as part of the model designation?

There are multiple tiers, like Audi's A4, S4, RS4.

The M trim on a normal model is were you get some of the styling aspects of performance model but the power remains the same. Other manufacturers also do this, for example the Audi A4 with S-line trim.

5 series:

530i or 540i - Basic
M550i - Performance
M5 - High Performance

2 series:

230i - Basic
M240i - Performance
M2 - High performance

X3:

X3 30i - Basic
X3 M40i - Performance
X3 M - High performance

You get the idea. Personally I find the BMW and Mercedes schemes more confusing than Audi's.

[KGB_123_99]

Originally Posted by sor

There are multiple tiers, like Audi's A4, S4, RS4.

5 series:

530i or 540i - Basic
M550i - Performance
M5 - High Performance

2 series:

230i - Basic
M240i - Performance
M2 - High Perforamnce

You get the idea. Personally I find the BMW and Mercedes schemes more confusing than Audi's.

Thanks!

So can I still get let's say a 550i or it will be just M550i from now on?

[sor]

Originally Posted by KGB_123_99

Thanks!

So can I still get let's say a 550i or it will be just M550i from now on?

If BMW decides to make a normal 550i model on a certain year, then yes. It would likely have the bigger engine but lack options for things like adaptive suspension and the sportier styling. We can't really say if the 550 "size" will always be an M variant from now on.

[2045]

Originally Posted by Salespunk

I test drove a GLC prior to getting my X3 and thought it drove well from my very limited time in it. BMW felt dynamically better, but the GLC 43 is definitely a nice truck. Did not get on it since I try to respect the fact that someone will own it eventually. Interior felt like a cave on the GLC, but the overall presentation we very nice with deviated stitching, red belts, etc.

Comparing similar price point between the two the X3 M40i felt much better. Overall the GLC43 felt very cheap for me in but interior & exterior. Had only limited driving experience. X3 felt superior as well.

[Max Well]

Originally Posted by spuntyb

Agreed. Most of the acclaim is in regard to the available power. But if they can't make it fun to drive, I don't see the cause for celebration. M40i wasn't available to test drive when I was looking, so I went with a Macan GTS (which I'm surprised they didn't test against here since the S is the base V6 against the top spec X3, but okay), but I can't imagine the X3 will be any better to drive. Maybe the X3M will be the one to do the job?

And where does one find the supporting data for your assertion that 'Most of the acclaim is in regard to the available power'? The power addition has been great but if one has been reading this forum's threads from Members who actually drive these - that is just one part of the equation. And to continue by saying, 'if they can't make it fun to drive, I don't see the cause for celebration', you're immediately lessening any objective argument being proposed. And once again, the small (with regards to cargo capacity) Macan has been brought into this equation. When it grows a bigger back end and can hold what most of us interested in this genre require, then it can sit at this table of comparative-sized SAV/SUVs. The SQ5 would make for a far better argument in that regards.

[mspringer]

My 2015 X3 M-sport 35i is coming off lease so I've been comparing the X3M40i, AMG GLC43, and the Audi SQ5. All are nice cars but rather different and which one likes better is matter of taste and priorities. Overall, in the luxury/sport balance the SQ5 leans a little more to the luxury side while the BMW and Mercedes lean to the sport side:

Engine/acceleration: Based on my butt dyno the BMW and Mercedes are very close and both are quicker than the SQ5. Flexibility of all are similar with the BMW engine perhaps a little smoother.

Transmission: In the sport setting the order of actual shift speeds: Mercedes > BMW > Audi. At full tilt the Mercedes shifts can be rather harsh. In addition to the speed of the shifts, the time after hitting the accelerator to beginning a downshift is an important factor for me, and is one the things I don't like about my current X3 35i because it's rather slow. Both the X40M and the Mercedes and much faster than the old X3 with the SQ5 being less so.

Handling/agility/ride: These are hard to compare because of differences in tire/suspension options. The cars I tested: M40is with either 19" all weather or 20" summer (didn't check the brand), without adaptive suspension; Mercedes 20" summer tires (P-Zero max performance); Audi 20" SUV summer tires (not max performance), 20" all weather both with the S-package (air suspension, sport diff)

In the comfort mode the Audi had the best ride, followed by the Mercedes and then the BMW. The latter didn't have the adaptive suspension which based on my X3 35i makes a significant difference smoothing small irregularities and bumps.

I certainly didn't push any of the cars close to the limits, maybe to 5/10s so mostly the feel is based on agility. In sport mode the order was Mercedes >=BMW > SQ5. The differences really weren't huge and remember the BMW didn't have the adaptive suspension so it didn't really have a sport mode suspension setting.

User interface: Audi>BMW>Mercedes. The Audi digital dash is really cool and neither of the others has it. Audi also has both Car Play and Android Auto, while the BMW only has Car Play (why BMW??). In the Mercedes neither is compatible with its Command system, I actually didn't like the Command system at all, too complicated and voice control asks too many questions for many operations.

Interior/exterior: a matter of personal taste but in my opinion all are ok, although I liked the interior of Audi and BMW better than the Mercedes and the exterior the Audi least.

So which am I going to pick. Still wrestling with the choice between the BMW and Audi. The BMW is faster and bit more exciting while the Audi is perhaps a slightly better everyday car.

I ruled out the Mercedes because of a problem encountered on the test drive. While in the sport+ mode I slowed almost to a stop and then gave it a little throttle and instead of smoothly accelerating the car bucked rather violently for 1-2 seconds. According to the salesperson this can happen in sport+ if one isn't really smooth with the throttle. Huh!!! Not acceptable behavior in my mind and could be dangerous if happened when making a left turn. Checking the Mercedes forum others have reported the issue.

[Max Well]

A thoughtful personal review - enjoyed reading.

[spuntyb]

Originally Posted by Max Well

And where does one find the supporting data for your assertion that 'Most of the acclaim is in regard to the available power'? The power addition has been great but if one has been reading this forum's threads from Members who actually drive these - that is just one part of the equation. And to continue by saying, 'if they can't make it fun to drive, I don't see the cause for celebration', you're immediately lessening any objective argument being proposed. And once again, the small (with regards to cargo capacity) Macan has been brought into this equation. When it grows a bigger back end and can hold what most of us interested in this genre require, then it can sit at this table of comparative-sized SAV/SUVs. The SQ5 would make for a far better argument in that regards.

There just aren't enough reviews yet to tell. Ultimately I'd have to drive it myself, but once I drove the GTS I stopped because there's no way the X3 is going to drive better. It just isn't. And the SQ5 wasn't even close. It's slightly bigger, but at least for us, it wasn't any bigger in a useful way, and the drive paled compared to the GTS - I could feel it's weight and high CG at nearly every turn. And most of the M40i reviews I've seen from members have been from those who had the previous X3, which was a huge letdown to drive imho, so I take those with a grain of salt. I think the M40i will be nice overall package and a big upgrade to the previous gen, but I don't see it as a driver's car.

Basically, once I can drive the M40i myself, I'll have a better idea. Until then, I'll keep any eye out for the nearly unanimous reviews that laud the telepathic transmission and exceptional driving dynamics.

[sor]

Originally Posted by spuntyb

There just aren't enough reviews yet to tell. Ultimately I'd have to drive it myself, but once I drove the GTS I stopped because there's no way the X3 is going to drive better. It just isn't. And the SQ5 wasn't even close. It's slightly bigger, but at least for us, it wasn't any bigger in a useful way, and the drive paled compared to the GTS - I could feel it's weight and high CG at nearly every turn. And most of the M40i reviews I've seen from members have been from those who had the previous X3, which was a huge letdown to drive imho, so I take those with a grain of salt. I think the M40i will be nice overall package and a big upgrade to the previous gen, but I don't see it as a driver's car.

Basically, once I can drive the M40i myself, I'll have a better idea. Until then, I'll keep any eye out for the nearly unanimous reviews that laud the telepathic transmission and exceptional driving dynamics.

Please do check it out and give your opinion vs the GTS. Obviously the PDK is going to be lots of fun, and there's likely more track-oriented handling, but power wise they should be well matched for off-track use.

I understand what you're saying in regards to many reviews vs older X3 being taken with a grain of salt. On the other hand, lots of F80 M3 owners on these forums seem to be excited and jumping to M40i for the added utility while keeping most of the fun factor. I have my doubts that a Macan GTS is going to be more of a driver's car than an F80 M3, so I don't take that recommendation with a grain of salt. Honestly I think many of us are biding our time for the next few years until the X3M becomes available and common.

[spuntyb]

Originally Posted by sor

Please do check it out and give your opinion vs the GTS. Obviously the PDK is going to be lots of fun, and there's likely more track-oriented handling, but power wise they should be well matched for off-track use.

I understand what you're saying in regards to many reviews vs older X3 being taken with a grain of salt. On the other hand, lots of F80 M3 owners on these forums seem to be excited and jumping to M40i for the added utility while keeping most of the fun factor. I have my doubts that a Macan GTS is going to be more of a driver's car than an F80 M3.

Yup. As I said, until I can drive it, I don't really know. I think the GTS and M40i are well matched in many ways, and if you're just looking for a fun grocery getter/family hauler with excellent technology, the M40i is probably tough to beat. I certainly wouldn't pick the base Macan or Macan S over it. I'd only give the GTS the edge in terms of the transmission, sound, and interior quality. It was a bank vault on the highway, and I just can't imagine an X3 with that kind of fit and finish, but maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised when I get behind the wheel? Who knows, maybe I'll be in an M40i in a few years!

[ska///235i]

Talking numbers on a family SUV/SAV.....1st world problems