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      04-26-2016, 10:25 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
It will almost certainly employ a proper automatic rather than a DCT.
That sucks

The DCT is one of my favourite aspects of the F80, it's way better than the 8ZF in my old M135i!

Smoother at low speeds and more exciting and brutal when your "on it"
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      04-26-2016, 10:42 PM   #90
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Perfect timing I'm in.
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      04-27-2016, 05:47 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Compact and mid entry or in BMW Speak UKL+ & KKL+ Segments continue to grow as do MKL+ and GKL+.
As a business you cannot ignore the segments that bring increased growth and are segments mostly in demand by customers.
You have only have to look at how markets -The US for example in regards to BMW,Audi and Mercedes-Benz are seeing further increase in SUVs rather than conventional portfolio models.

Its a Sign O' The Times.
Scott, you're actually making my point. Just because there are a few bucks to be made in a specific niche sector, doesn't mean BMW has to fill it. Brand dilution is a real thing, and not just a word forum members throw around.

Celebrities do not like to be seen too often. Because that makes them less special. It dilutes their image. They have "brand managers" to watch their image, how many times they are seen in print and how many interviews they can allow. They get this concept.

And BTW, don't you think companies like Ferrari and Porsche already know what BMW knows? I give them credit for showing far more discipline.

Sign of the times indeed.
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      04-27-2016, 08:37 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falafel Combo View Post
Scott, you're actually making my point. Just because there are a few bucks to be made in a specific niche sector, doesn't mean BMW has to fill it. Brand dilution is a real thing, and not just a word forum members throw around.

Celebrities do not like to be seen too often. Because that makes them less special. It dilutes their image. They have "brand managers" to watch their image, how many times they are seen in print and how many interviews they can allow. They get this concept.

And BTW, don't you think companies like Ferrari and Porsche already know what BMW knows? I give them credit for showing far more discipline.

Sign of the times indeed.
Really? That's why the Porsches that fly out of the showrooms are the Macan, Cayenne and Panamera right? That's showing restriction?

Maserati Levante? Lamborghini Urus? Bentley Bentayga? Brand dilution only exists at BMW huh?

Don't get me wrong, I love M cars and you'll never see me in an X6, but there's a reason why MB and Audi have jumped on the bandwagon too. And I'm sorry, I'm not crying in my M3 when a 3GT pulls up next to me at the lights. Really, the only thing I care about is if BMW is still making the car I want. Everything else is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.
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      04-27-2016, 09:21 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spuntyb
Just make an M wagon already!!
Yes!!!
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      04-27-2016, 07:19 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
X1 and X2 M Performance will be coming soon. However, they will still use an I4. Don't expect any engine with more cylinders than that to find its way into a UKL vehicle.
And that sucks. BMW feels the need to compete with every minivan looking thing and other weird segments but refuse to compete in some that would be badass. I had an X1 35i as a loaner one time when my 1M was getting serviced and I thought it was a very fun car/suv, imagine that with the full M treatment.

Couldn't they do the current X1 with a 380hp 4 or even their 3 banger with like 350hp?
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      04-28-2016, 11:48 AM   #95
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About freaking time BMW. Now let's get on with a true X4 M!
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      04-28-2016, 12:20 PM   #96
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Bring the M3 and M5 Touring. The market for these cars is not large but there are some C63, RS4, E63 or RS6 wagons on the street.

I both like the strong engine and practical touring body. With M treatment it would be even more appealing for me. 340i F31 or even Alpina seem to be a compromise and they both do not have that sth for me.
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      04-28-2016, 12:57 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeCrush View Post
Couldn't they do the current X1 with a 380hp 4 or even their 3 banger with like 350hp?
They could definitely do that, but BMW does not appear to be in any hurry right now to develop small, high output engines. Nevermind 350hp for a moment - consider that they are one of the few major auto manufacturers that does not even have a 4 cylinder engine with more than 250hp yet. Now, such as engine will arrive with the afore mentioned X2 M Performance offering, but we don't even know when that will happen (an announcement sometime this year is a reasonable expectation, however).

Speculatively, one could guess that part of the delay in setting a path for the next generation of small high performance vehicles has been the uncertainty surrounding the 2 Series. Originally, the writing on the wall was clear - everything below the 3 would move to UKL. But lately that has been thrown into question. This has been due in part, we have been told, to the fact that M Division isn't keen on FWD vehicles, nor even - as they would more likely be - AWD vehicles with transverse engine layout. With such big unknowns around vehicle architecture, naturally the decision on engine configuration is left open as well. If some sub-3 products will sit on CLAR or some other new small RWD platform, then that puts the I6 back in play for those products and that means a > 300hp 4 cylinder is not absolutely necessary. This would not cover a proper F48-based X1/X2 M, obviously. But if they have calculated that such products are not necessary right now, they could craft plans to move the next generation X1/X2 to this same theoretical sub-3 platform to be used for the new 2 Series and use the same I6 engine as well.
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      04-28-2016, 01:12 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falafel Combo View Post
Scott, you're actually making my point. Just because there are a few bucks to be made in a specific niche sector, doesn't mean BMW has to fill it. Brand dilution is a real thing, and not just a word forum members throw around.
Is it? Mercedes never got that memo. They also haven't had any brand dilution although at one point they built a minivan (R Class), have a few FWD based cars (CLA and GLA), and will sell both a passenger and cargo van.

Quote:
Celebrities do not like to be seen too often. Because that makes them less special. It dilutes their image. They have "brand managers" to watch their image, how many times they are seen in print and how many interviews they can allow. They get this concept.
The Kardashians, unfortunately, haven't gotten this memo either.

Quote:
And BTW, don't you think companies like Ferrari and Porsche already know what BMW knows? I give them credit for showing far more discipline.

Sign of the times indeed.
Ferrari isn't a volume brand. BMW doesn't tell buyers that they can't buy their cars, Ferrari does.

Porsche, yeah shows discipline. You can see this through such offerings like the Panamera, Macan and Cayenne. So yeah props to them for stickin to their roots. Same rings true for Jag, Bentley, and Lambo. They'd never stray from their roots and build an SUV.....
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      04-28-2016, 02:48 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fecurtis View Post
Same rings true for Jag, Bentley, and Lambo. They'd never stray from their roots and build an SUV.....
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      04-30-2016, 01:41 PM   #100
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If only they had made the E91 M3 my dreams would have been fulfilled...
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      06-12-2016, 04:50 AM   #101
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No more sightings or spy shots????
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      06-12-2016, 08:59 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo@BMWofFairfax
Quote:
Originally Posted by spuntyb
Just make an M wagon already!!
No market for it.
Just look at the number of people in here that just dream of it...
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      07-27-2016, 11:34 AM   #103
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Updated July 27, 2016: A new F97 X3 M prototype has been spotted while undergoing Summer testing in Spain. The body camouflage remains the same as before, but we can see new wheels fitted for testing and new tires (Pirelli Scorpion) compared to the Pirellie P-Zero tires on the previous prototype.

BMW X3 M (F97) Prototype Spotted in Spain


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      07-27-2016, 02:02 PM   #104
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No drilled brake rotors? And there's a weird box/highlight around the quad exhausts in some photos.
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      07-27-2016, 03:12 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel
Quote:
Originally Posted by theriz View Post
I have no doubt this with have the S55 but the question i do have is. Will it have a ZF or DCT Tranny? Might be a deal breaker.
It will almost certainly employ a proper automatic rather than a DCT.
Does that make DCT an " improper automatic ?
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      07-27-2016, 03:14 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
No drilled brake rotors? And there's a weird box/highlight around the quad exhausts in some photos.
I think the publisher done that to highlight the Quad exhaust ports.
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      07-27-2016, 03:28 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blubaron79 View Post
In before all the 'diluted M comments'! (Which I do not agree with)
The argument about brand dilution is pretty weak to me. Those that think putting an M-sport trim package with some m badges somehow dilutes the brand. Some think putting SAVs out at all somehow dilutes the brand. We really need to get over ourselves. BMW is not a rare, prestige brand. It is a very nice, high volume brand with some excellent products that are just about wherever you look in any direction. Who do we think we are fooling into thinking there is something to protect here? Mercedes builds trucks, buses, and platforms for RVs for crying out loud. Would that stop any of us from buying a nice E-class if that's the sedan we wanted? Don't think so. Does an m badge on the side of an X3 somehow make an M3 slower or less track worthy? Don't think so.

We don't drive rare, special cars. Those types of cars cost 3-4 times what we are spending.

Now, if I owned an Aston Martin and then saw my front grill on a Ford Fusion, I'd be a bit pissed.
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      07-27-2016, 03:45 PM   #108
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Yes!
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      07-27-2016, 05:24 PM   #109
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Looking good in the heat
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      07-27-2016, 11:51 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fecurtis View Post
Is it? Mercedes never got that memo. They also haven't had any brand dilution although at one point they built a minivan (R Class), have a few FWD based cars (CLA and GLA), and will sell both a passenger and cargo van.
Since we're talking about image, MB compensates for these FWD based cars with $200K+ Bling mobiles that more than compensate for the dilution on the lower end. They also have limited edition exotics such as SLS BS, G63 6X6 and the erstwhile SLR all of which cost anywhere between $300-$600k. The average transaction price of MB is considerably higher than BMW, and when you don't have the luxury of having high end models that compete with Bentley and McLaren like Mercedes and Audi do, going downmarket is only going to drag the brand further south. You can start comparing "image" to MB and Audi when BMW has its 8/9 series or X8 M in place with retail prices above 200k to compensate for the FWD econoboxes, until then, a little context would be nice when comparing.

FWIW the new X3 looks a LOT better than the current one that looks downright outdated compared to its competition. I wouldn't mind seeing an X3M considering that the competition are making similar vehicles, but I'd also like to see BMW compete with the top-end of MB and Audi. Where's our S63/S65 and Audi R8 competitor.. Since BMW is interested in filling all niches as a potential customer I'd be interested in seeing this happen.
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