[kinimod]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Yeah, i'm going to give the unpopular response: sort of, kind of, maybe, not really.

Driver behavior, agreed, is better ... or at least more conducive to left lane passing and regimented freeway driving.

That said, in 2014, 40 min after I'd picked up my new indv M4, i was in the left lane and a guy one lane to the right put on his left signal, moved into my lane ahead of me, and kept going right over the shoulder into the concrete barrier almost flipping, kicking up a shit ton of rocks and dinging up my clear coat Luckily I was only going about 100 at that point, coulda been worse. That's one of a ton of examples I've seen on the autobahn so - yeah - much better than the US, but I sure wouldn't say drivers are "designed" for high speed. the world is full of morons.

Roads .... ehhh I'm gonna somewhat disagree - but qualified. First, I was a civil engineer who's designed roads, albeit 25 years ago. The highway curves, etc are standard assumptions, speed, etc. so in that sense yes I'd guess the autobahn roads are "designed" for higher speed (but who knows how much? ) With that said, I find them no higher quality / different than many US freeways, at least the ones I've driven extensively on, which is basically west of the mississippi. In fact, there are a ton of US freeways I'd MUCH rather drive high speed on than much of the autobahn (280 san jose to SF, 80 across Wyoming, etc - woot! )

Anyway, beyond most German drivers adhering to left lane rules (and über alles prestige) - which simply avoids annoyances - I wouldn't say the German autobahn is oh-so-much-better road-quality-wise or people-wise for high speed driving. The autobahn roads, in general, are somewhat better, but driver beware, it ain't no high-speed-run empty airstrip!

Now if we're talking German B roads? Then you better muthafuckin believe it - I once saw a road crew hand sweeping fresh black top in the middle of fucking nowhere. German B roads are the shit! In fact, if I'm going to sport tour anywhere in Germany, I skip the autobahn and go right to the B roads!

The autobahn is fun (during the 5% of the time there's no traffic), and you can drive super fast if you want, but I'd say in general, past about 120-130mph, you're probably overdriving your reaction time for the road design, and certainly for whatever stupid shit another driver is going to do.

This is completely wrong. Autobahn freeways are much much higher quality and much smoother than most of the ones in US. The 280 from San Jose to San Francisco is full of potholes, terribly short merge and exit lanes that are super dangerous, and many freeway sections have abrupt changes in pavement elevation over bridges. I literally was flying for a split second in a Porsche Cayman with very tight suspension.

B roads in Germany are smoother and flatter than US freeways.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by kinimod

This is completely wrong.

Or completely right. I've driven just about every mile of autobahn highway over the last decade, including 2 planned, scouted high speed runs between Munich and Hamburg - you?

I may have also done that on 280 too. allegedly. the one in Mexico. (note to all: 280 has 8 lanes!)

[Wills2]

I also think there is a huge difference between punting a capable car up to 160mph on a lightly trafficked section of AB in good weather and then coming back down to a more sensible speed, than those that would tear on a that speed for mile after mile...that to me isn't sensible and you're likely to find your accident waiting for you.

[mmic77]

In germany there is something called „Richtgeschwindigkeit“, a sort of advisory speed. It‘s 80,77mph, 130kmh. Travelling above that speed can bring you into seriös trouble if you‘re involved in an accident. You can be fined although you aren’t the cause of the accident.

I‘m driving regulary at high speed but only on three lane motorways with less traffic. You can‘t underestimate the deltas in speed.

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by mmic77

In germany there is something called „Richtgeschwindigkeit“, a sort of advisory speed. It‘s 80,77mph, 130kmh. Travelling above that speed can bring you into seriös trouble if you‘re involved in an accident. You can be fined although you aren’t the cause of the accident.

I‘m driving regulary at high speed but only on three lane motorways with less traffic. You can‘t underestimate the deltas in speed.

Also, driving a these speeds, you feel that the vehicle becomes somehow "balistic". Changing direction all of a sudden and heavy braking is a combo that requires real guts. Only the M5 felt planted at +155. The M4 competition nor the M6 GC didn't. Of course they are still impressive, but it adds to the risk.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by mmic77

In germany there is something called „Richtgeschwindigkeit“, a sort of advisory speed. It‘s 80,77mph, 130kmh. Travelling above that speed can bring you into seriös trouble if you‘re involved in an accident. You can be fined although you aren’t the cause of the accident

Including losing your car, correct? Same with driving during winter without snow tires? I can remember if the latest US ED program insurance covers you for that - we review the fine print for that every time though!

Originally Posted by KoenG

Also, driving a these speeds, you feel that the vehicle becomes somehow "balistic". Changing direction all of a sudden and heavy braking is a combo that requires real guts. Only the M5 felt planted at +155. The M4 competition nor the M6 GC didn't. Of course they are still impressive, but it adds to the risk.

Totally agree on the M5 vs M4C

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Including losing your car, correct?

That’s in Switzerland, not Germany.

[535i MSport]

Originally Posted by spuntyb

Nice! Now make it a station wagon with the S58.

I couldn't find one either, so made do worth the M177, 510PS and 700Nm with the wrong badge up front. Electronically limited to 174mph.