[Riick]

Lately I've been noticing my car takes forever to get some temp in the gauge, and currently it's 92*f, I'm at a stop light after riding around for the last 30 mins....and this is the temp:

[________]

Originally Posted by Riick

Lately I've been noticing my car takes forever to get some temp in the gauge, and currently it's 92*f, I'm at a stop light after riding around for the last 30 mins....and this is the temp:

This is the correct oil temp for city driving.

The oil will only get hotter on the highway, for fuel efficiency.

Outside temperatures only affect oil temperature when it's really cold out (-20 and below).

[tracer bullet]

Originally Posted by OnerDriver

This is the correct oil temp for city driving.

The oil will only get hotter on the highway, for fuel efficiency.

Outside temperatures only affect oil temperature when it's really cold out (-20 and below).

I'm not saying you aren't right, but I've never heard of that for any other car and it goes against what I see in my X3 which is maybe 230 or so in my normal driving, even in town after just say 15 minutes.

On any other car I'd say the thermostat is stuck open and the coolant through the whole system is always flowing and not allowing the engine to warm up to where it's supposed to be. Running too cool is the kind of thing that leads to water staying in the oil and not evaporating off.

I'm definitely interested if this is "normal" and if others see this too.

[________]

Originally Posted by tracer bullet

I'm not saying you aren't right, but I've never heard of that for any other car and it goes against what I see in my X3 which is maybe 230 or so in my normal driving, even in town after just say 15 minutes.

On any other car I'd say the thermostat is stuck open and the coolant through the whole system is always flowing and not allowing the engine to warm up to where it's supposed to be.

I'm definitely interested if this is "normal" and if others see this too.

It also seems you're conflating oil temperature with water temperature...

[tracer bullet]

Originally Posted by OnerDriver

It also seems you're conflating oil temperature with water temperature...

Maybe just wasn't clear.

We are looking at the oil temp gauge. Typically oil runs a lot hotter than what is shown ***, partly to help evaporate water from it. And if it's running low, often an engine's thermostat in the cooling system is stuck open allowing the flow to always be pushed through the radiator instead of running in a smaller closed loop to allow it to warm. Oil and coolant temps are of course separate things but they go hand in hand with one affecting the other.

(*** - in my X3 and 135i, both of which are the N55 versions (and also my earlier cars as well), this could be different for the N20 or whatever code the 4-cylinders are, maybe they run cooler).

Any replies as to what others see might be base don what engine they have. BMW's site and manuals say that if it's in the middle or less for temp it's normal with no other details that I have yet found.

[________]

Originally Posted by tracer bullet

Maybe just wasn't clear.

We are looking at the oil temp gauge. Typically oil runs a lot hotter than what is shown ***, partly to help evaporate water from it. And if it's running low, often an engine's thermostat in the cooling system is stuck open allowing the flow to always being pushed through the radiator instead of running in a smaller closed loop to allow it to warm. Oil and coolant temps are of course separate things but they go hand in hand with one affecting the other.

(*** - in my X3 and 135i, both of which are the N55 versions (and also my earlier cars as well), this could be different for the N20 or whatever code the 4-cylinders are, maybe they run cooler).

Any replies as to what others see might be base don what engine they have. BMW's site and manuals say that if it's in the middle or less for temp it's normal with no other details that I have yet found.

I'll let you get the replies you want to read, so I'll just reply one last time as you seem to want a particular response that corroborates your unfounded conception.

1- first time I've ever heard anyone say the engine will warm up the oil "to evaporate the water". This is not to be found in any literature. Will water evaporate when oil is past 100C? Yes. Does the computer tell the cooling system to warm up the oil past that to evaporate water? No.

2- I just posted the BMW technical literature that explains exactly what you are saying you can't find anywhere (how the cooling system works in different circumstances, lowering the temperature when engine is under load to produce more torque, and raising the temperature for economy).

3- the same literature indicates how the N20 was developed after the N55 and its cooling and lubrication systems have the same concept (it specifically calls that out with engine nomenclature and all).

But, alas, maybe you have a thermostat problem and others will confirm.

Best of luck.

[tracer bullet]

Originally Posted by OnerDriver

I'll let you get the replies you want to read, so I'll just reply one last time as you seem to want a particular response that corroborates your unfounded conception.

I think you think we are arguing, we are not. FYI.

Originally Posted by OnerDriver

1- first time I've ever heard anyone say the engine will warm up the oil "to evaporate the water". This is not to be found in any literature. Will water evaporate when oil is past 100C? Yes. Does the computer tell the cooling system to warm up the oil past that to evaporate water? No.

This is from an oil analysis class I took eons ago when I worked for an engine manufacturer (I'm in medical devices now so my memory of this is admittedly fuzzy). Ideal oil temps in engines were in the low 200's, just above water's boiling temperature. This helped get water out of the oil to reduce damage to bearings. It also lowered friction in general. Getting hotter damaged the oil itself unnecessarily. The implication for us was that this is where engines should run, from an oil manufacturer's perspective anyhow. I don't know for certain however if the designers made this a goal or not and I don't have the text books from the class any longer. We can agree to disagree on the subject of what is a good temp and if those temps are a goal or not.

Originally Posted by OnerDriver

2- I just posted the BMW technical literature that explains exactly what you are saying you can't find anywhere (how the cooling system works in different circumstances, lowering the temperature when engine is under load to produce more torque, and raising the temperature for economy).

I'm well aware of what you posted and it was interesting. However I was referring to BMW info on preferred OIL temperatures, not coolant temperatures. This is our disconnect. My bad if it wasn't clear, I thought it was obvious since we are talking about an oil temp gauge in the first post. All I can find on that is info form the owner's manual which, as I said, was middle of the gauge or less.

Originally Posted by OnerDriver

3- the same literature indicates how the N20 was developed after the N55 and its cooling and lubrication systems have the same concept (it specifically calls that out with engine nomenclature and all).

OK, interesting. Looking around the forums with a little searching it seems others have indicated their 4's run cooler than other's 6's. It's anecdotal but was interesting. I mentioned it to hope others with both engine types might reply here. Would be interesting to see.

I'll start - both my N55's oil temps run an indicated 235 or so max after 15-20 minutes of driving in normal weather. If either of my oil temp gauges read as shown above it would be unusual.

[________]

Originally Posted by tracer bullet

I think you think we are arguing, we are not. FYI.

This is from an oil analysis class I took eons ago when I worked for an engine manufacturer (I'm in medical devices now so my memory of this is admittedly fuzzy). Ideal oil temps in engines were in the low 200's, just above water's boiling temperature. This helped get water out of the oil to reduce damage to bearings. It also lowered friction in general. Getting hotter damaged the oil itself unnecessarily. The implication for us was that this is where engines should run, from an oil manufacturer's perspective anyhow. I don't know for certain however if the designers made this a goal or not and I don't have the text books from the class any longer. We can agree to disagree on the subject of what is a good temp and if those temps are a goal or not.

I'm well aware of what you posted and it was interesting. However I was referring to BMW info on preferred OIL temperatures, not coolant temperatures. This is our disconnect. My bad if it wasn't clear, I thought it was obvious since we are talking about an oil temp gauge in the first post. All I can find on that is info form the owner's manual which, as I said, was middle of the gauge or less.

OK, interesting. Looking around the forums with a little searching it seems others have indicated their 4's run cooler than other's 6's. It's anecdotal but was interesting. I mentioned it to hope others with both engine types might reply here. Would be interesting to see.

I'll start - both my N55's oil temps run an indicated 235 or so max after 15-20 minutes of driving in normal weather. If either of my oil temp gauges read as shown above it would be unusual.

Yeah I didn't try to appear to be arguing but I recognize my post could be construed as that. Sorry!

Yes, indeed the document talks about how N20 was developed as the N55, but my N55 dashboard behaves differently than my N20 (135 vs X3 28i)

My thinking is both dashboards are calibrated differently, I'd have to use an OBD connector to measure them from the DME and compare.

For what it's worth my X3 had a thermostat changed a couple of years ago, and the oil temps have been a little different than what I remember. It could be the difference in weather (it gets very cold where I live) and I don't drive it a lot.
Still normal operation though.

[Riick]

Correct, It's a little concerning that oil temps after riding around for a while in the mid 90's are that low. I was under the impression that they should always be above 200.

[________]

Originally Posted by Riick

Correct, It's a little concerning that oil temps after riding around for a while in the mid 90's are that low. I was under the impression that they should always be above 200.

One thing I remembered later was that the car got software updates in the meantime as well.
I wonder if the updates recalibrated the dash because some people could have had anxiety over the fact that the needle could surpass the middle part. It used to happen when driving really hard, still does on my 135, but not on the X3 anymore. A theory, maybe. Remember having had an update lately?

[tracer bullet]

I'm trying to remember if Carly would spit out the info? It's not expensive and pretty fun to play with, plus the bonus of certain coding options as well.

I can easily believe even on a supposed driver's car that the displays be dumbed down so as not to confuse people. We are probably in the slim minority of BMW owners even contemplating this. The few times I've been to the dealership people seem to be more interested in the badge than the performance.

[________]

Originally Posted by tracer bullet

I'm trying to remember if Carly would spit out the info? It's not expensive and pretty fun to play with, plus the bonus of certain coding options as well.

I can easily believe even on a supposed driver's car that the displays be dumbed down so as not to confuse people. We are probably in the slim minority of BMW owners even contemplating this. The few times I've been to the dealership people seem to be more interested in the badge than the performance.

I think Carly does, but I also think the "hidden menu" in the dashboard does it as well. Worth a shot, I'll open the hidden menu next time I'm out on both cars to compare (has to be a somewhat longer drive for me to get them up to temps).

Maybe we could compare them here too if they match the needle or not.

[Riick]

I have Carly but how do you access the hidden menu?

[________]

Originally Posted by Riick

I have Carly but how do you access the hidden menu?

Check out this link with steps and video, quicker than typing in.

It's easy and you can't mess up anything as it only provides readings of parameters.

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/b...diy-60918.html

[tracer bullet]

I like this idea a lot, hope it doesn't take me too long to be able to do it. Busy work schedule and a toddler make the simple things tough sometimes.

[________]

Haven't been able to take highway yet.

I just took this picture, it went up to 90 degrees during city driving, and started to lower as I was idling.

[TheCoolX3]

Ive noticed on my X3 (N55) will shoot up to about 90C-110C in about 10 minutes no matter the driving conditions, idling, around town, highway. Only if I am really getting on it it will get up to 125C. I noticed that the car heats up a bit slower when I changed the oil from BMW 5w-30 to Castrol 0w-40 LL01, could be placebo or just a small difference but I noticed it.

[________]

Originally Posted by TheCoolX3

Ive noticed on my X3 (N55) will shoot up to about 90C-110C in about 10 minutes no matter the driving conditions, idling, around town, highway. Only if I am really getting on it it will get up to 125C. I noticed that the car heats up a bit slower when I changed the oil from BMW 5w-30 to Castrol 0w-40 LL01, could be placebo or just a small difference but I noticed it.

It may be placebo, but logic dictates that your thicker oil will take a little longer to heat up, but also it will take longer to cool down. So it really depends on what the situation is it could be good or bad. Both will be very similar though.

[________]

More research:

Went for a longer drive just now. I took it on a highway drive after it was fully warm (oil around 88C).

Oil temperature rose to 109C, and coolant peaked 111C (photos attached).

Then I got back in the city where there's a traffic light just getting in.
Immediately the oil temperature started dropping, but the coolant temperature dropped from the ~105 it was on a highway to 84c. Oil stabilized at ~90.

Comparing the needle, it seems pretty accurate.

So to summarize:

Highway:
Coolant ~110c
Oil ~109c

City:
Coolant ~84c
Oil ~90c

[tracer bullet]

I finally remembered / had some time / got Carly to behave (it was telling me incorrectly that I didn't have the full version) for a data point.

First picture is last night after a pair of 20 minute drives with about 2 hours in between, mostly highway. This is the temp I'd say is typically my peak, it's there most any long drive but never goes over. This is perhaps 235F indicated? Something like 112C.

Next pair of pictures this morning, 2 10 minute drives on a major road in town (some 60mph travel with a couple lights thrown in) with about 5 minutes in between trips. Not quite to peak temp but I had Carly going this time. Perhaps 220F indicated? Something like 105C. This might be more interesting just in that the dash and Carly match pretty well.

Comparing this to yours OnerDriver it might seem we see similar peak temps with the difference being my car holds it, yours lowers? Hopefully sometime in the near future I'll have a trip where I get up to this temp then followed by some lighter in-town driving, see if I might actually lower the oil temp and just didn't notice it before.

[________]

Yes. Exactly.

You have an N55 however correct?
The pictures above illustrate the behaviour of the N20.

In my N55 (albeit a 135, not an X3) I never noticed a pattern similar to the N20 of lowering temps while in town. It behaves like your X3. Always "hot". It goes over the middle a little when I race.

So maybe we have a conclusion of the behaviour for both engines? And maybe we addressed the initial question of "what are the normal temps for my car"?

Is OP's car an N20 or N55?

[________]

I just found out he has an N20 as well.
He posted another thread asking the exact same question so I posted a link to this thread.

I will perform the same test I performed above with my 135 to compare and will post it for you tracer bullet.

Cheers!