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      03-05-2019, 04:06 PM   #1
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Smile China’s Built a Road So Smart It Will Be Able to Charge Your Car

The future is coming
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...rs-on-the-move
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      03-05-2019, 04:32 PM   #2
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Holy crap... if the US can't even maintain asphalt roads without potholes - imagine the crazy maintenance and expenses related to repairing sections of highways with wires, charging pads, solar panels and sensors in it.
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      03-05-2019, 04:52 PM   #3
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Does it "block" facebook and winnie the pooh?
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      03-05-2019, 05:02 PM   #4
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I can hardly wait................
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      03-05-2019, 05:55 PM   #5
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To me it's another "pie in the sky". They are like "super cars" of road construction. It's cool and fancy but not practical. The reason China can do it is because their labor cost is so low - not has anything to do with their technological advantage. It's just another "pet project" for foreign investors.

It's similar to high speed train. The reason we don't have it here is because the cost does not justify the benefits.
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      03-06-2019, 09:39 AM   #6
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As someone who has been in solar for over 10+ years. Have fun with that.

A MASSIVE cost of upkeep + it is literally the stupidest place to put them. Extremely inefficient.

The solar roads people in the states were a joke, this is too. This is NOT a new idea, very old and still very stupid.

Both China and the US has MASSIVE expanses of land they can put solar on. Energy distribution DC or AC is well understood and simple(enough). If we wanted we could power each time zone with 4-8 plants and just run HVDC all over the globe. Boom free energy from the sun.


You need this much solar to power all of the USA:



put a few of those red blocks in each time zone a few north a few south to account for weather. run HVDC.
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      03-10-2019, 08:49 PM   #7
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As someone who has been in solar for over 10+ years. Have fun with that.

A MASSIVE cost of upkeep + it is literally the stupidest place to put them. Extremely inefficient.

The solar roads people in the states were a joke, this is too. This is NOT a new idea, very old and still very stupid.

Both China and the US has MASSIVE expanses of land they can put solar on. Energy distribution DC or AC is well understood and simple(enough). If we wanted we could power each time zone with 4-8 plants and just run HVDC all over the globe. Boom free energy from the sun.


You need this much solar to power all of the USA:



put a few of those red blocks in each time zone a few north a few south to account for weather. run HVDC.
So is solar panels the future? I wonder if its a good business...
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      03-10-2019, 10:47 PM   #8
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So is solar panels the future? I wonder if its a good business...
Energy storage is the future. Making energy is easy. Storing it is hard. Storing power is key to so much moving forward be it electric vehicles or getting off natural gas and oil.
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      03-11-2019, 01:33 AM   #9
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reminds me of that other 'idea' they had which was found to be IMPOSSIBLE after they tried it LOL.

the mega bus!!!!

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      03-11-2019, 12:06 PM   #10
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Maybe on a select road here and there, but this mainly belongs in the flying cars category, with the article being in the clickbait category.
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      03-14-2019, 11:57 PM   #11
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What if a person has a heart pacemaker? Maybe it can interfere with the pacemaker signal.
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      03-15-2019, 09:38 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Torgus View Post

You need this much solar to power all of the USA:



put a few of those red blocks in each time zone a few north a few south to account for weather. run HVDC.
Can you explain that a little more? What is the red square represent? a solar panel field?
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      03-15-2019, 10:24 AM   #13
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Can you explain that a little more? What is the red square represent? a solar panel field?
Correct. Red square powers entire USA. However, you have to account for weather, different times of the year, sun hits the west and east cost differently etc. So you would need to have multiple red squares across each time zone the the majority to the south for when the earth is tilted away from the sun like during the winter. We have the space, tons of space.

Using UHVDC like we do across ocean floors we could send the energy very efficiently across the NA continent.

The real kicker is this: If the whole world bought in, we would be sending the energy to the dark side of the planet while the light side is generating the energy and it would be a constant flow of solar energy around the planet...which already happens, we just do not harness any of the solar radiation and most just goes into warming up the earth and shining in our eyes.

I mean you really need energy storage as well but this would work with the technology we have today. We and MANY countries have PLENTY of open unused space. China, Russia, USA, Maxico. Lots of open unused space to harvest solar energy.

There is never enough of the earth covered by clouds that this would not work, especially with some energy storage.

Now this would be a MASSIVE undertaking and politically insane to get passed as countries always want to monitize it and do not think about the greater good. Imagine free energy for all via solar.
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      03-18-2019, 08:06 PM   #14
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Fiction, its cheaper to use panels on roofs, not going to happen anytime soon.
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      03-18-2019, 08:20 PM   #15
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Fiction, its cheaper to use panels on roofs, not going to happen anytime soon.
Technically ground mounts are the least expensive, specifically utility scale, but yes, roads are DUMB AF for solar.
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      03-19-2019, 07:25 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torgus View Post
Correct. Red square powers entire USA. However, you have to account for weather, different times of the year, sun hits the west and east cost differently etc. So you would need to have multiple red squares across each time zone the the majority to the south for when the earth is tilted away from the sun like during the winter. We have the space, tons of space.

Using UHVDC like we do across ocean floors we could send the energy very efficiently across the NA continent.

The real kicker is this: If the whole world bought in, we would be sending the energy to the dark side of the planet while the light side is generating the energy and it would be a constant flow of solar energy around the planet...which already happens, we just do not harness any of the solar radiation and most just goes into warming up the earth and shining in our eyes.

I mean you really need energy storage as well but this would work with the technology we have today. We and MANY countries have PLENTY of open unused space. China, Russia, USA, Maxico. Lots of open unused space to harvest solar energy.

There is never enough of the earth covered by clouds that this would not work, especially with some energy storage.

Now this would be a MASSIVE undertaking and politically insane to get passed as countries always want to monitize it and do not think about the greater good. Imagine free energy for all via solar.

How in the world is this free when it’s more expensive than traditional energy sources?
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      03-19-2019, 08:50 AM   #17
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How in the world is this free when it’s more expensive than traditional energy sources?
I am sorry but I believe you facts are wrong. That or go edit the wiki with sources to back up your claims. It is free basically once it is installed. VERY low O&M cost unlike traditional coal, gas, or nuclear. It cheaper than many other forms of traditional energy generation. LCOE of solar is excellent compared to traditional:

https://www.utilitydive.com/news/an-...-solar/529373/

https://www.energy.gov/eere/solar/ar...-goal-achieved

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_o...city_by_source

6 cents per kilowatt-hour for solar, which continues to drop year over year.

Lazard (2018)
In November, 2018, Lazard found that not only are utility-scale solar and wind cheaper than fossil fuels, "[i]n some scenarios, alternative energy costs have decreased to the point that they are now at or below the marginal cost of conventional generation." Overall, Lazard found "The low end levelized cost of onshore wind-generated energy is $29/MWh, compared to an average illustrative marginal cost of $36/MWh for coal. The levelized cost of utility-scale solar is nearly identical to the illustrative marginal cost of coal, at $36/MWh. This comparison is accentuated when subsidizing onshore wind and solar, which results in levelized costs of energy of $14/MWh and $32/MWh, respectively. ... The mean levelized cost of energy of utility-scale PV technologies is down approximately 13% from last year and the mean levelized cost of energy of onshore wind has declined almost 7%."[36]

Bloomberg (2018)
Bloomberg New Energy Finance estimates a "global LCOE for onshore wind [of] $55 per megawatt-hour, down 18% from the first six months of [2017], while the equivalent for solar PV without tracking systems is $70 per MWh, also down 18%." Bloomberg does not provide its global public LCOEs for fossil fuels, but it notes in India they are significantly more expensive: "BNEF is now showing benchmark LCOEs for onshore wind of just $39 per MWh, down 46% on a year ago, and for solar PV at $41, down 45%. By comparison, coal comes in at $68 per MWh, and combined-cycle gas at $93." [37][38]

IRENA (2018)
The International Renewable Energy Agency (IRENA) released a study based on comprehensive international datasets in January 2018 which projects the fall by 2020 of the kilowatt cost of electricity from utility scale renewable projects such as onshore wind farms to a point equal or below that of electricity from conventional sources.[39]

Banks (2018)
The European Bank for Reconstruction and Development (EBRD) says that "renewables are now cheapest energy source", elaborating: "the Bank believes that renewable energy markets in many of the countries where it invests have reached a stage where the introduction of competitive auctions will lead both to a steep drop in electricity prices and an increase in investment." [40] The World Bank (World Bank) President Jim Yong Kim agreed on 10 October 2018: "We are required by our by-laws to go with the lowest cost option, and renewables have now come below the cost of [fossil fuels]." [41]

I'm a conservative republican but alternative energy is the future. We still are going to need oil for plastics etc. The sooner we stop pumping it out of the ground and saving it the better. let the rest of the world use up their oil while we save ours.






"My grandfather rode a camel, my father rode a camel, I drive a Mercedes, my son drives a Land Rover, his son will drive a Land Rover, but his son will ride a camel",[5] reflected his concern that Dubai's oil, which was discovered in 1966 and which began production in 1969, would run out within a few generations.
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      03-23-2019, 10:52 AM   #18
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dzvero View Post
Fiction, its cheaper to use panels on roofs, not going to happen anytime soon.
Technically ground mounts are the least expensive, specifically utility scale, but yes, roads are DUMB AF for solar.
I think it's a ridiculous idea. Charge where you park.
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      03-23-2019, 10:56 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torgus View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHudson View Post
How in the world is this free when it's more expensive than traditional energy sources?
I am sorry but I believe you facts are wrong. That or go edit the wiki with sources to back up your claims. It is free basically once it is installed. VERY low O&M cost unlike traditional coal, gas, or nuclear. It cheaper than many other forms of traditional energy generation. LCOE of solar is excellent compared to traditional:

https://www.utilitydive.com/news/an-...-solar/529373/

https://www.energy.gov/eere/solar/ar...-goal-achieved

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_o...city_by_source

6 cents per kilowatt-hour for solar, which continues to drop year over year.

Lazard (2018)
In November, 2018, Lazard found that not only are utility-scale solar and wind cheaper than fossil fuels, "[i]n some scenarios, alternative energy costs have decreased to the point that they are now at or below the marginal cost of conventional generation." Overall, Lazard found "The low end levelized cost of onshore wind-generated energy is $29/MWh, compared to an average illustrative marginal cost of $36/MWh for coal. The levelized cost of utility-scale solar is nearly identical to the illustrative marginal cost of coal, at $36/MWh. This comparison is accentuated when subsidizing onshore wind and solar, which results in levelized costs of energy of $14/MWh and $32/MWh, respectively. ... The mean levelized cost of energy of utility-scale PV technologies is down approximately 13% from last year and the mean levelized cost of energy of onshore wind has declined almost 7%."[36]

Bloomberg (2018)
Bloomberg New Energy Finance estimates a "global LCOE for onshore wind [of] $55 per megawatt-hour, down 18% from the first six months of [2017], while the equivalent for solar PV without tracking systems is $70 per MWh, also down 18%." Bloomberg does not provide its global public LCOEs for fossil fuels, but it notes in India they are significantly more expensive: "BNEF is now showing benchmark LCOEs for onshore wind of just $39 per MWh, down 46% on a year ago, and for solar PV at $41, down 45%. By comparison, coal comes in at $68 per MWh, and combined-cycle gas at $93." [37][38]

IRENA (2018)
The International Renewable Energy Agency (IRENA) released a study based on comprehensive international datasets in January 2018 which projects the fall by 2020 of the kilowatt cost of electricity from utility scale renewable projects such as onshore wind farms to a point equal or below that of electricity from conventional sources.[39]

Banks (2018)
The European Bank for Reconstruction and Development (EBRD) says that "renewables are now cheapest energy source", elaborating: "the Bank believes that renewable energy markets in many of the countries where it invests have reached a stage where the introduction of competitive auctions will lead both to a steep drop in electricity prices and an increase in investment." [40] The World Bank (World Bank) President Jim Yong Kim agreed on 10 October 2018: "We are required by our by-laws to go with the lowest cost option, and renewables have now come below the cost of [fossil fuels]." [41]

I'm a conservative republican but alternative energy is the future. We still are going to need oil for plastics etc. The sooner we stop pumping it out of the ground and saving it the better. let the rest of the world use up their oil while we save ours.






"My grandfather rode a camel, my father rode a camel, I drive a Mercedes, my son drives a Land Rover, his son will drive a Land Rover, but his son will ride a camel",[5] reflected his concern that Dubai's oil, which was discovered in 1966 and which began production in 1969, would run out within a few generations.
We could use more conservative Republicans like you.

Our need for oil won't stop — if all cars are electric, we still have jet aircraft and incalculable amounts of infrastructure (trillions of dollars worth?) which needs petroleum long into the future. There isn't any reasonable plan for electric airliners; as far as I know, it's impossible with today's technology and with the technology of the foreseeable future. Maybe in fifty years.
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      03-24-2019, 09:14 AM   #20
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We could use more conservative Republicans like you.

Our need for oil won't stop — if all cars are electric, we still have jet aircraft and incalculable amounts of infrastructure (trillions of dollars worth?) which needs petroleum long into the future. There isn't any reasonable plan for electric airliners; as far as I know, it's impossible with today's technology and with the technology of the foreseeable future. Maybe in fifty years.
Amen!
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      03-24-2019, 10:26 AM   #21
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The $6-trillion barrier holding back electric cars

https://driving.ca/auto-news/news/th...-electric-cars

Wouldn’t it be great if we could all drive without dirtying the air we breathe? Alas, not everyone can afford an electric car.

The good news is the death of the internal combustion engine is nearing and electric-vehicle sales are on a tear. Countries that together account for more than 10 percent of global auto sales have detailed plans to phase out conventional gasoline-powered cars. Include China, and that jumps to 40 percent.

These days, electric cars can drive further and be charged faster than previously. Automakers are beginning to churn out at least one electric variant, with more than 100 battery-powered models to be available by next year. Does that mean the affordable car of the future has arrived?

Sales numbers suggest it’s getting closer: Consumers bought more than 1 million electric vehicles last year, an increase of almost 60 percent from 2016, even as global car demand turned lower. China, with an aggressive green vehicle policy, accounts for almost half of worldwide electric passenger-car sales. The average price of lithium ion batteries, which account for almost half a car’s cost, has dropped from $599 per kilowatt-hour to $208 per kWh over the past five years. Drivers now have almost 600,000 charging outlets globally, of which more than half are in China.

The country is responsible for a big part of the shift in demand, through carrot-and-stick policies. That’s forced global automakers looking for a foothold in the world’s largest auto market to start producing electric cars.

In absolute numbers, conventional vehicles dwarf their green cousins. However, the decline of gas-guzzling engines looks inexorable as stringent fuel-economy standards force manufacturers to rethink the future and look to China. Electric vehicle sales rose 55 percent in the country last month, even as overall passenger-car demand slumped.

Elon Musk’s Tesla Inc. has big plans for China, along with a host of homegrown electric-car companies that have sprung up with backing from deep-pocketed investors.

China’s incentives, policies and industry rules essentially require a portion of all cars sold to be electric. With less than a third of the parts of regular autos, electric models are easier to manufacture. Surely, then, we’ll get there?

The trouble is, the sales numbers don’t say much about quality or technology. Earlier this year, analysts from UBS Group AG went to scope out electric-car batteries around Asia-Pacific. The reality on the ground wasn’t as good as the figures suggested. China’s domestic batteries performed poorly at low temperatures and companies had other manufacturing issues, the analysts noted after speaking to unidentified industry participants. Others said the sales numbers were mostly a marketing effort reflecting pressure from local governments eager to show they’re following Beijing’s policies.

Meanwhile, in August, General Motors Co. postponed the introduction of the Buick Velite 7, a local version of its Volt model, because of deficient batteries. The launch had been scheduled for September, with a pure-electric version planned for next year. The supplier is a Michigan-based, Chinese-owned company with a plant in Hangzhou.

Either way, the problem of cost and, therefore, consumer take-up looms large. Households most likely to buy a battery-powered electric car have an income of $300,000 a year or more, according to a UBS survey of around 10,000 people in the six largest auto markets. Only 41 percent of households with income of $150,000 to around $200,000 plan to make such a vehicle their next auto purchase. The biggest barrier to buying cleaner cars is still the high price.

The cost of full adoption is astronomical. An estimated $6 trillion is theoretically needed to build the infrastructure that electric cars need such as charging stations and power networks, according to Goldman Sachs Group Inc. That’s about 7.5 percent to 8 percent of the world’s gross domestic product. Add to that the amount companies spend on making the cars and batteries, and the number could be even higher.

Studies have shown that the transition costs will have to be reduced through government subsidies and support. Withdrawing support too early — as the case of Tesla has shown in Denmark and Hong Kong — kills sales immediately.

For companies, finding the balance between affordability and profitability remains tough. Take China’s battery champion Contemporary Amperex Technology Ltd., which went public in Shenzhen about six months ago. It counts the likes of BMW AG among its customers and has almost 40 percent of the battery market in China. Margins fell 5 percentage points in the third quarter, though volumes and profit rose. A decline in average selling prices and higher raw materials costs were to blame.

Even as technology improves, costs remain the biggest barrier. Luxury carmakers such as Jaguar Land Rover and Porsche Automobil Holding SE will reap better margins from higher-priced electric SUVs. But for such models to become widely affordable, the cost of a battery would have to come down to $100 per kWh.

The capital spending needed to make that happen won’t be easy. Expenses are the biggest issue for the auto industry, from tariffs and raw materials to labor and research and development. Cost of goods sold averages more than 80 percent of net sales at the world’s largest car companies.

The bottom line that is we’re at least five years away from bringing the price of a good electric car down to that of comparable conventional one, without factoring in tax credits and subsidies. Drivers will have to hold their breath for a while longer.
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      03-24-2019, 11:55 AM   #22
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The battery is the big plus/minus with electric cars: The battery makes virtually every system of the car far more reliable and longer-lasting. The number of moving parts plummets.

But of course the problem is that when the battery dies, so does the car.

My personal opinion is that the solution is to standardize the individual cells that make up these batteries, and make the individual cells replaceable.

Nissan showed a very cool concept which recycled old car batteries as home electric storage, so your solar home would have local, off-grid power storage.

If you look at used Nissan Leafs, they go for a song, because a dead battery=dead car. It's definitely a problem that needs to be solved.
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