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      04-19-2011, 03:54 PM   #23
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All of this makes me very nervous
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      04-19-2011, 04:03 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsAdams2007 View Post
All of this makes me very nervous
Don't be. There are lots of X3s out there giving their owners trouble free driving.

These things always happen and often itis only when things go wrong that people turn to a forum.

I suspect that there are far worse manufacturers for quality control than BMW.
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      04-19-2011, 05:29 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Daddy-O View Post
Don't be. There are lots of X3s out there giving their owners trouble free driving.

These things always happen and often itis only when things go wrong that people turn to a forum.

I suspect that there are far worse manufacturers for quality control than BMW.
And even with that fact, the problem reports here are few and far between. The one’s that have been reported don’t seem to fit a pattern indicating a major (volume wise) problem.

No car has ever been mass-produced that didn’t have some problem pop up in a few of them. That’s why they all have service departments.
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      04-19-2011, 11:16 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus7 View Post
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Originally Posted by Harplayr View Post
And even with that fact, the problem reports here are few and far between. The oneÂ’s that have been reported donÂ’t seem to fit a pattern indicating a major (volume wise) problem.

No car has ever been mass-produced that didnÂ’t have some problem pop up in a few of them. ThatÂ’s why they all have service departments.
All of the above is true, and anyone buying a vehicle in its first model year, such as the F25, should expect the possibility of a few "teething" problems - that's what warrantees are for. However, this particular, safety related problem has been experienced by (3) active X3 owning members of this forum within their first thousand miles of use. I have no real idea of the number of X3 (F25) owners who are active on this forum, but from reading the posts, I suspect it is less than 100, 28i and 35i owners. That means that there is a good possibility that this is something that 3% or more of X3 owners are seeing. Also, these specific problems have been reported for at least (2) months, and the BMW dealers are still “in the dark” about any solution. My dealer has sold less than (25) new X3s and so far (2) of them have this issue.

IÂ’m still happy with my purchase of a new X3, but IÂ’m not very happy about the way BMW is going about addressing what is apparently NOT just a minor problem affecting a few cars.

Unfortunately, large manufacturers have a great deal of corporate inertia, and it can take a bit of time to come up with a solution and to actually admit that there is a problem (as in the HPFP issues on E90, E91, E92 and E93 models).

Meanwhile, IÂ’m going to do everything possible to bring as much pressure to bear on BMW NA as I can until IÂ’m satisfied that they know what the real cause is, and they send a TSA to all the dealers.
My service center was ordered by BMW NA and BMW AG to order a new transfer case from Germany and replace it. Problem is gone. I have my car back.
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      04-19-2011, 11:24 PM   #27
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There are a lot of good tips, ideas and solutions to problems that can be gleaned from an internet forum like this one; but there is also the reverse, fear and concerns can be raised by reports (many of which are incomplete, or not accurately stated) of serious problems. It would be easy to "spook" a BMW-rookie on here. I think, having had a number of these cars, you just have to carry-on, drive your car, and get the dealer involved early if you do experience a real problem (there will be some, particularly with a new model), but they can be and will be fixed.

Remember that few post about their flawless cars and no-problems experiences, but you hear a lot about the few that have problems. For example, the HPFP problems on the N54 engines were posted at great lengths on forums; but most ppl never had a problem. I drove a 535xi for 21 months with zero issues (as an example only).

Just put it all into perspective and stay cool. Getting fearful or angry never solves the problems.
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      04-20-2011, 12:14 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus7 View Post
I'm certainly not fearful or even beginning to be angry (yet). If I were, you certainly would know it! I'm also not in the least worried about anyone being "spooked". The issues related to the problem that juddholland and I have had HAVE been very completely and accurately reported, so anyone reading about them is free to draw their own conclusions.

BTY: In my experience, "getting angry" often is the fastest way TO solve the problem. Being passive just delays the end result.

I am disappointed that BMW does not seem to be communicating about this issue with its dealers, but I'm not surprised. Most corporations ignore reliability and even safety issues until they reach crisis levels. Ford, General Motors and Toyota (and many others) have followed this pattern, why not BMW?

I'll stop whining when I'm driving the car I paid for, not a loaner that has half the cargo capacity and doesn't meet my day-to-day needs.
Lotus7 you are being quite patient and calm. I would be pretty pissed if my new vehicle were sitting in the shop while I'm making payments on it. A day or two is one thing....but more than that I would be fired up!
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      04-20-2011, 12:15 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus7 View Post
I'm certainly not fearful or even beginning to be angry (yet). If I were, you certainly would know it! I'm also not in the least worried about anyone being "spooked". The issues related to the problem that juddholland and I have had HAVE been very completely and accurately reported, so anyone reading about them is free to draw their own conclusions.

BTY: In my experience, "getting angry" often is the fastest way TO solve the problem. Being passive just delays the end result.

I am disappointed that BMW does not seem to be communicating about this issue with its dealers, but I'm not surprised. Most corporations ignore reliability and even safety issues until they reach crisis levels. Ford, General Motors and Toyota (and many others) have followed this pattern, why not BMW?

I'll stop whining when I'm driving the car I paid for, not a loaner that has half the cargo capacity and doesn't meet my day-to-day needs.
I certainly was not addressing my post to you, Lotus 7, although you seem to have interpreted it that way. Sorry if you were offended, not meant for you.

It was meant for the new-to-BMW ppl who may get nervous reading about problems that can be taken out of context or magnified on an internet forum.
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      04-20-2011, 12:50 AM   #30
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Tempting fate here but this seems to only affect 28i and 35i models, not 20d.

Hope they sort it out for you swiftly Lotus - if only for their own sake!

Re. scale of reported problems and forums, think of the hotel analogy. How often do you go to a nice hotel and then get back home and write a nice long positive review of it? But if you paid a lot of money to stay somewhere and it was absolutely awful, you'd be much more likely to tell/warn people about it on a review site
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      04-20-2011, 06:53 AM   #31
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As a BMW newbie, it only makes me nervous because I couldn't even list all the problems we have had with our Ford dually and that 6.4L engine. Yes, I know BMW will remedy the problems and hopefully do so with more urgency and tact, but it doesn't bode well to hear of a car sitting at the dealer for 3 weeks waiting on an answer. Glad Lotus7 is on the case.
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      04-20-2011, 08:06 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juddholland View Post
My service center was ordered by BMW NA and BMW AG to order a new transfer case from Germany and replace it. Problem is gone. I have my car back.
That’s good news!
Keep an eye on it and let us know if the problem returns.
Hopefully BMW now has a handle on this, and any future instances will be resolved quickly.
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      04-20-2011, 11:09 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfax View Post
Tempting fate here but this seems to only affect 28i and 35i models, not 20d.

Hope they sort it out for you swiftly Lotus - if only for their own sake!

Re. scale of reported problems and forums, think of the hotel analogy. How often do you go to a nice hotel and then get back home and write a nice long positive review of it? But if you paid a lot of money to stay somewhere and it was absolutely awful, you'd be much more likely to tell/warn people about it on a review site
That's only because Europe-bound X3 orders have been given second priority to US orders. Therefore, European models are fewer and further between, and thus you have less people posting on this forum. All in due time, my friend.
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      04-20-2011, 11:12 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harplayr View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by juddholland View Post
My service center was ordered by BMW NA and BMW AG to order a new transfer case from Germany and replace it. Problem is gone. I have my car back.
ThatÂ’s good news!
Keep an eye on it and let us know if the problem returns.
Hopefully BMW now has a handle on this, and any future instances will be resolved quickly.
I can have my dealership submit a request to BMWNA that a statement be issued regarding this technical anomalic malfunction. Chassis stabilization malfunctions have been happening in BMW cars since '07.
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      04-20-2011, 11:15 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Want the thrill View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus7 View Post
I'm certainly not fearful or even beginning to be angry (yet). If I were, you certainly would know it! I'm also not in the least worried about anyone being "spooked". The issues related to the problem that juddholland and I have had HAVE been very completely and accurately reported, so anyone reading about them is free to draw their own conclusions.

BTY: In my experience, "getting angry" often is the fastest way TO solve the problem. Being passive just delays the end result.

I am disappointed that BMW does not seem to be communicating about this issue with its dealers, but I'm not surprised. Most corporations ignore reliability and even safety issues until they reach crisis levels. Ford, General Motors and Toyota (and many others) have followed this pattern, why not BMW?

I'll stop whining when I'm driving the car I paid for, not a loaner that has half the cargo capacity and doesn't meet my day-to-day needs.
Lotus7 you are being quite patient and calm. I would be pretty pissed if my new vehicle were sitting in the shop while I'm making payments on it. A day or two is one thing....but more than that I would be fired up!
The dealership offered a free detail job and a reimbursement for two months of payment, one for the three weeks they had it, and another for the trouble. If it shows up again it will be the third time that they attempt to fix the car, and if after that it comes back, I can declare it a lemon, among other lawsuits.
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      04-20-2011, 12:31 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juddholland View Post
The dealership offered a free detail job and a reimbursement for two months of payment, one for the three weeks they had it, and another for the trouble. If it shows up again it will be the third time that they attempt to fix the car, and if after that it comes back, I can declare it a lemon, among other lawsuits.
I'm glad to see they are compensating you. Keep us posted!
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      04-25-2011, 04:07 PM   #37
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I love your lemon law! I'm not aware of a UK equivalent but we need one

I also think that all they have done here is the equivalent of "fixing" a PC by switching it off and back on again. Oh dear...

Good luck Lotus and Judd. I'd be more than angry if it was me. I know it's scant consolation but be grateful that if do get your money back and decide to re-order, you won't have to wait 10 months for another one!
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      04-25-2011, 07:57 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus7 View Post
...
I expected to get the car back today after they installed the new software, but the dealer is insisting on holding on to it for two more days while he has someone (probably the pimply-faced kid who washes the cars) drive it to see if the problem re-occurs. ...
I'm not very happy that they want to put a few hundred miles on the car, but at this point have no alternative but to go along with them... (
How come they can't give you the car back to test yourself if the software update has fixed the issue or not? If it occurs again you can always take it back in.

Do they think this is a serious issue or possibly even a dangerous issue and they don't want driving it?

I'm both excited about my order and nervous after reading this. Hopefully this isn't too common or serious.

Good luck, I hope you get your X3 back soon! Thanks for keeping us posted on the issue.
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      04-25-2011, 08:21 PM   #39
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When I asked that question, they said that if the error came up again, they wanted one of "their people" to observe it.
Ah, I guess that makes sense, but must suck not to have your car and know someone else is driving it. Sorry to hear it.

Yeah I'm still really excited about getting the X3 soon, I'm hearing way more great things than bad, and of all the bad things, none seem serious or major at least so far.

Hope you get your X3 back soon
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      04-25-2011, 10:18 PM   #40
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For me it was not the ABS, it was the cruise control system that failed. Same thing though. I am bringing in the car soon - but I don't expect them to find anything. The problem is hard to replicate.
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      04-26-2011, 07:09 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus7 View Post
When I asked that question, they said that if the error came up again, they wanted one of "their people" to observe it.

Also, as I stated above, there is the lemon law issue. If they catch another error before they return the car it won't count against their (3) trys to fix the car before I have the right to refuse it and demand a new vehicle.

Since the vehicle responds normally when the fault indication happens, and since the error display goes away once the car has been shut off and then restarted, I don't believe it's a immediate safety issue. the problem is one of "calling wolf", that is, if a real defect happens in the ABS or Stability control systems, the driver (me) will have been conditioned to ignore it.

I will be carrying a dedicated digital camera in the center storage bin in the future to be able to photograph the computer screen and the dash panel full of bright warning lights if it occurs again.

Remember, the vast majority of people on this forum have not had this problem. It seems to be affecting something like 3% of the new X3s and so far all have been 35i models, although other Series BMW owners have also reported similar problems.
Having a camera capture it is a good idea. Now a days with most cell phones having a camera, it’s easy to capture a problem like yours.

Being armed with as much evidence and documentation is always a good idea if you have to file a Lemon Law case. You never know if the car company will fight it or not.

I had to lemon a Subaru Outback last year, and Subaru fought it hard. If I didn’t have good documentation I would have been out of luck.
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      04-26-2011, 10:12 AM   #42
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The solution is inarguably the transfer case. If the symptoms are the same, then a diagnostics request call to BMWNA and/or BMWAG will get your dealership on the right track. They are obligated to do whatever BMW says.
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      04-26-2011, 11:39 AM   #43
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I had to lemon a Subaru Outback last year, and Subaru fought it hard. If I didn’t have good documentation I would have been out of luck.
Really a Subaru Lemon, first I have heard of a Subaru. My household is a BMW and Subaru staple. Was it the new Outback or older gen?
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      04-26-2011, 12:34 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus7 View Post
When I asked that question, they said that if the error came up again, they wanted one of "their people" to observe it.
I think they should offer you one of "their" people to keep in your boot/trunk so that you can keep driving the car and when it happens again, you can let him out to perform his expert analysis

Aren't all of these warnings and error codes logged, or do they not believe the logs?
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