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      01-17-2020, 01:43 PM   #23
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Nigel Tufnal

With nothing else to do, I read through carefully the product information document in the "stickies" looking for specific suspension differences between the X3M and X3MC. The document does note that the X3MC has "Adaptive M suspension with even stiffer characteristics".

The rear anti-roll bar is noted as "M" specific with "Ø 24.7 mm". No distinction is made between XM3 and XM3C.

The only difference I could find is below.

"Adaptive M suspension on Competition model (Dynamic Damper Control)
There are no EDC control valves as familiar from the G01/G02 fitted on the outside of the shock absorbers but instead typical M-only internal control valves. The shock absorbers have been developed with the supplier ZF Sachs and the system adapted to the F97/F98. The EDC works with infinitely variable valves in the absorbers. The hydraulic oil flow is controlled via electromagnetic control valves. It is thus possible to make available the damping force actually required at all times."

This would appear to suggest that the XM3C's "stiffer suspension characteristics" are a function of software controlled damping force.

I wonder if, like Nigel Tufnal's amp, the XM3C's adaptive suspension has an 11 setting, i.e., compared to the XM3, in the XM3C comfort=sport, sport=sport+, and sport+=11, or sport++. This could explain why many testers complained that even in the comfort setting, the XM3C's suspension felt stiff (wimps?).
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      01-17-2020, 02:32 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KRS_SN View Post
i think not sir based on my limited experience.
i had michelin pilot sport 4 s in my car base suspension (335d) and the steering precision was good. I Then installed bilstein b8 shocks and the difference was incredible ie difference between a knife and a surgical scalpel both sharp but suspension being stiffer etc makes a huge difference.
as has been mentioned previously, there have been statements made (Car and Driver I believe) that allude to the Comp having thicker anti-roll bars. That or programming differences in the adaptive dampers (or possibly tires) could explain any differences.

The specific reason I called out the tires is that at the first dealership where I back-to-back tested the base X3M and then the Comp (both cars on the 21s with the same Conti tires), the difference in responsiveness/turn-in wasn't really noticeable to me. I was able to push both cars much harder on this test drive (nice fast country back roads).

At the second dealership was where I noticed a fairly marked difference in how the cars turned in and responded to steering inputs. On this drive the Comp felt noticeably more responsive. I was driving slower on this ride as well due to much more congested/lower speed limit roads. The base car on this ride had the 21s with Contis. The Comp had the 21s with Michelin tires.
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      01-17-2020, 04:27 PM   #25
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
Thanks for the impressions. Do you know which tires were on each car you drove?
Thank heavens the dealers actually put a picture of the tires in their listings:

First dealership:
Base X3M: Conti SportContact 6
Comp: Conti SportContact 6

Second dealership:
Base X3M: Conti SportContact 6
Comp: Michelin P4S (this was the drive that made me feel that the Comp had much better turn in than the base model). Maybe it was just the better tires . . .
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
Thanks for the impressions. Do you know which tires were on each car you drove?
Thank heavens the dealers actually put a picture of the tires in their listings:

First dealership:
Base X3M: Conti SportContact 6
Comp: Conti SportContact 6

Second dealership:
Base X3M: Conti SportContact 6
Comp: Michelin P4S (this was the drive that made me feel that the Comp had much better turn in than the base model). Maybe it was just the better tires . . .
Great write up...

Tires can make a noticeable difference in many aspects; effects turn in, ride compliance, noise.
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      01-17-2020, 04:40 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Influence View Post
For those of you interested. I've been trying to figure out if the if there is any difference in the suspensions between the Base X3M and the Competition model. Luckily fortune smiled on me and I was able to do a pretty thorough comparison.

So two local dealers both got base X3Ms with 21's and X3M Competitions with 21s. I did back-to-back test drives at both dealerships over the past two weeks (taking advantage of the 50 degree plus weather we've had here in NJ so I don't slide around on rock-hard summer tires). Exact same roads/routes on both set of drives, so this was a really good comparison.

There is definitely a difference (not massive, but noticeable) between the suspension setups on the base vs. comp models. While it is certainly possible that the actual suspension components are the same, I wouldn't be surprised if there is a difference in the software tuning of the adaptive shocks between the two cars. Having had the Dinan Shockware software flash on my '17 340i Adaptive Suspension package car proves what a difference a simple software change can make to a BMW Adaptive suspension's feel/performance

I'm comparing "comfort" mode on both vehicles here as that is mode I'd need to be in 80%+ of the time in order to keep some degree of comfort on the crappy NJ roads I drive daily.

On both set of test drives, I noticed that on small, rapid sets of bumps/undulations the Comp car seemed to "crash" over the bumps and really bounced me and the passenger around much more. It felt like the car was riding over the bumps as opposed to absorbing them. It makes for a very jittery and unsettled ride. Frankly, there is no excuse for this kind of behavior out of a BMW as they know how to make a car firm yet compliant. You could actually hear the impacts more in the Comp car as well. Surprisingly, the Comp models "Sport" mode seemed to handle small undulations better. Yes it was firmer, but Sport seemed to take the edges off the impacts slightly better. Weird. Sadly I couldn't stand driving around a Comp model in Sport all day, but maybe those of you with smoother roads could.

I asked my CAs to pay attention to how they felt going over the same set of bumpy roads to help me see if I was being crazy or not. They both agreed unprompted that the base model seemed to handle the bumps better and that they felt the bumps much more in the Comp model. They also said that they felt they were being tossed around more in the Comp. I had a backseat passenger too at one of the dealerships (Genius was really interested in seeing if there was a difference between the two models) and she said that the ride in the 2nd row was much more unpleasant in the Comp model.

One thing I did notice (and which supports the Car and Driver quote about the anti-roll bars being thicker on the Comp models) is that initial turn-in on the Comp felt quicker/more responsive than the base to me. One of my test drives lets me take some really high-speed (like 60+ MPH - might have actually taken one long turn at 90) country back road sweepers and the improved turn-in of the Comp was easily felt. This actually made the steering feel a bit better/more responsive on the Comp as well. I felt more comfortable pushing the Comp through high speed turns as long as the roads were smooth. If there was any roughness/bumps to the turns, the Base model felt noticeably more stable due to the better damping. The Comp got a bit "skittery" on me on one high speed (50+) bumpy turn, which really shook my confidence in the vehicle. Proof that ultra firm is not always the best choice for handling.

I also quickly found out that the "Economy" throttle response mode is crap on either model. Put it in Sport if you want proper throttle response. It completely wakes the car up and almost makes it feel like they put a different engine into the car.

One other item if you care about 2nd row passenger space/legroom. The M Sport seats are definitely thicker than the base Sport seats in the Base model. I intentionally drove a second base model at one dealership just to see if I liked the base seat better than the M Sport (standard in the Comp, upgrade on the Base). After my drives I always get into the back seat to see how much legroom I have. For reference, I'm 6' 1.5" with fairly long legs and drive in a fairly proper "racing" position (seat back fairly upright, legs relatively straight, wrists rest on the top of the steering wheel while keeping my back against the seatback). With the base seats, I still had about 1.5" of clearance before my knees hit the back of the front seat. With the M Sport seats, my knees were just touching the back of the front seat. While it is possible that I was in slightly difference driving positions as the seats are different, bottom line is that it looks the base seats in the Base model will net about 1-1.5" of additional legroom. They are also softer cushioned and the seat bottom is wider (if you've got a big ass - stick with the base on a Base model).

If I could get the ventilation, I'd probably stick with the base seat on a Base X3M just for the additional 2nd row legroom, but I really liked the support/feel of the M Sport seat. Plus the leather is nicer and you can get the ventilation option, which I love. Maybe I can find a way to change the driving position a bit to get a bit more legroom for the rugrats in the back.

So right now, I'm leaning towards a base X3M with the upgraded M Sport seats. I'm curious if BMW will address the ride quality criticisms with the 2021 model. If they improved the "Comfort" suspension setting on the Comp, I'd definitely go that route.

I'll definitely miss the better exhaust note of the Comp (yes, it is noticeably meaner/louder) but the power difference is negligible and can easily be solved with a tune. Ditto for the exhaust and black grilles and such - easily fixed problems, though they basically eliminate the cost savings of getting a Base model.

Overall, I felt really comfortable driving the X3M and am astounded with how much raw performance is available in an SUV. This really does feel like a jacked-up M3. Yes, you do still feel the weight and high center of gravity when pushing the car (compared to a coupe/sedan), but only folks with a lot of driving experience will really notice. I'd love to drive an M Drivers' package car to see if the weight loss of the sunroof would make the car feel even better. It certainly couldn't hurt, but not sure if I would really notice it shy of a racetrack setting when really pushing the car.

If you've gotten this far, thanks for reading my novel. . .
Great comparison, although unnecessary for the U.K. as we only get the comp versions here. 😀
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      01-17-2020, 06:02 PM   #27
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Great quote, although unnecessary for the rest of us as we can read the original post. 😀
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      01-17-2020, 06:18 PM   #28
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Not sure comp is worth the money. I just ordered the black grilles and trunk badge for $375! Maybe I'll do exhaust tips later on and the mirror caps.
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      01-17-2020, 06:50 PM   #29
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not surprised that comp version felt harsh - I felt the same way when I drove one. exhaust is a joke. power and even shock valving can be reprogrammed easily.
sounds like regular x3m is the better choice.
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      01-17-2020, 09:01 PM   #30
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Amazed that you spent this much time comparing 2 SAVs in performance and handling.

You want a truck or SUV, buy American
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      01-17-2020, 10:40 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classyfast View Post
Amazed that you spent this much time comparing 2 SAVs in performance and handling.

You want a truck or SUV, buy American
Trucks, sure. SUVs? HELL no! Not if you value overall performance.
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      01-18-2020, 08:53 AM   #32
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Read this on Instagram and amended my settings accordingly. Only travelled about 10 miles, but on the U.K. B roads I normally use around the house, it has, I believe, made it subtly more accommodating of uneven surfaces.

I changed to correct tyre sizes as opposed to summer/winter tyres and altered to partially loaded.

Will see if I notice longer term.
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      01-18-2020, 08:57 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterbelly View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by weitz View Post
thank you for your post, I'm gonna have to try driving around in sport suspension a bit more to try it out myself (x4mc).
I now use Sport suspension for daily driving (X3MC) and, as it turns out, it really is better than comfort. True story.
I have found the same with my M3. My kids even notice the "bounciness" when in comfort.
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      01-18-2020, 10:33 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classyfast View Post
Amazed that you spent this much time comparing 2 SAVs in performance and handling.

You want a truck or SUV, buy American
Considering that this is going to be a 70-75K US purchase, I thought it was only prudent. Nothing worse than buying something only to realize you either don't like it or can't live with it long term.

The X3M is made in America by Americans, so I kind of feel like it would be "buying American" anyway. Yeah, the profits don't wind up in the US, but a lot of other benefits (Spartanburg workers, the community, etc) really do benefit.

Just curious, what other American SUV is similar in overall performance to an X3M other than possibly the Jeep SRT? Which by the way also rides pretty poorly and handles significantly worse than even the base X3M. Not to mention the cheap interior quality, relatively low tech (do they even have a 360 surround camera available yet), poor reliability and terrible resale value.
It probably doesn't help that it rides on a 10+ year old platform at this point in time either.
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      01-18-2020, 12:29 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paliknight View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by classyfast View Post
Amazed that you spent this much time comparing 2 SAVs in performance and handling.

You want a truck or SUV, buy American
Trucks, sure. SUVs? HELL no! Not if you value overall performance.
Maybe but why the fuck are you worried about performance if you're in a SUV/SAV? Lol doesn't make any sense. I would take an Escalade or even an XT6 over any European suv/sav right now. Utility, comfort and ride is all that matters.
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      01-18-2020, 12:55 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by classyfast View Post
Maybe but why the fuck are you worried about performance if you're in a SUV/SAV? Lol doesn't make any sense. I would take an Escalade or even an XT6 over any European suv/sav right now. Utility, comfort and ride is all that matters.
To you. I will decide what matters to me thanks.
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      01-18-2020, 02:14 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classyfast View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by paliknight View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by classyfast View Post
Amazed that you spent this much time comparing 2 SAVs in performance and handling.

You want a truck or SUV, buy American
Trucks, sure. SUVs? HELL no! Not if you value overall performance.
Maybe but why the fuck are you worried about performance if you're in a SUV/SAV? Lol doesn't make any sense. I would take an Escalade or even an XT6 over any European suv/sav right now. Utility, comfort and ride is all that matters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by classyfast View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by paliknight View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by classyfast View Post
Amazed that you spent this much time comparing 2 SAVs in performance and handling.

You want a truck or SUV, buy American
Trucks, sure. SUVs? HELL no! Not if you value overall performance.
Maybe but why the fuck are you worried about performance if you're in a SUV/SAV? Lol doesn't make any sense. I would take an Escalade or even an XT6 over any European suv/sav right now. Utility, comfort and ride is all that matters.
When I was looking for a beater luxury car.

CTS 2.0
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      01-18-2020, 02:32 PM   #38
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I want to drive one of these.
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      01-18-2020, 03:31 PM   #39
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I want to drive one of these.
lol learn to use snipit please...
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      01-18-2020, 03:34 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by 535i MSport View Post
I want to drive one of these.
lol learn to use snipit please...
Ok, I was being lazy...😀
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      01-18-2020, 03:39 PM   #41
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lol learn to use snipit please...
Don’t feed this troll, bro.
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      01-18-2020, 04:35 PM   #42
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Don’t feed this troll, bro.
am i the troll or is he? i legit could’t read what he took a pic of
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      01-18-2020, 04:40 PM   #43
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am i the troll or is he? i legit could’t read what he took a pic of
No, weitz, not you of course.
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      01-18-2020, 06:40 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Influence View Post
Sadly, I just didn't have time to do that, but it would certainly answer the question. What's funny is the one Genius who went for a ride with me is a real BMW kid (I think he has an E30). He thought that they might have left the shipping blocks on the suspension on the Comp model we drove (that's how bad he thought the ride was). We checked when we got done with the drive - the blocks had been properly removed.
I was convinced suspension blocks were left on my f90 but they weren’t. It’s the stock springs that are the issue. When stock, my f90 felt like an ejector seat in the rear during rebound at speed (on 19”s). I know what you mean, sounds like the springs are bottoming out, even in comfort mode; also tried running 28psi all-around; didn’t work. Hit a bump and you just get a sharp clunk. It’s very much a wtf moment.
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