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      08-31-2019, 04:13 PM   #1
brad850csi
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Joe Achilles X3M review, mentions lack of low end torque

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Just like a few members findings who have driven one he talks about the lack of torque at the bottom end which I found most interesting
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      08-31-2019, 04:50 PM   #2
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I set my M1 button for Sport Plus Engine. Zero issues. A 3.38 zero to 60mph isn’t lacking low end torque.
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      08-31-2019, 05:02 PM   #3
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Also note that the entire review was done on a specific roadway (narrow, rough road).
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      08-31-2019, 05:07 PM   #4
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I've seen cheeseheads before, but until now, never a pillow-head! He should just leave it on all the time.
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      08-31-2019, 07:52 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onfireX5 View Post
I set my M1 button for Sport Plus Engine. Zero issues. A 3.38 zero to 60mph isn’t lacking low end torque.
That is spooling up against the torque converter isn't it? I have seen your boost logs and replied to one of your threads, I'd love to see it going to wide open throttle from 2000rpm in a gear to see how it spools.
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      08-31-2019, 08:17 PM   #6
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A useful analysis of the car's every day usability. His impressions are consistent with my limited test drive.
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      08-31-2019, 09:39 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brad850csi View Post
That is spooling up against the torque converter isn't it? I have seen your boost logs and replied to one of your threads, I'd love to see it going to wide open throttle from 2000rpm in a gear to see how it spools.
I'll get you that specific log. If you look at this log it is close to what you want. There is no converter flash as it was a rolling test. Start at 2000 rpm and the boost and compare it upward...
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      09-01-2019, 12:38 AM   #8
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Every engine has strenghts and weaknesses.

The S58 has a single minded focus on emotion and responsiveness. Anyone who values max torque availability at 1,300-1,500rpm is better off buying an M40i or the up and coming X5M.
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      09-01-2019, 12:58 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mtxzptlk View Post
Also note that the entire review was done on a specific roadway (narrow, rough road).
Why go to a bumpy road and drive with the suspension in sports plus and not comfort? Very odd not to have completed a comparison and instead tape a pillow to his head
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      09-01-2019, 01:49 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dylan1357 View Post
Why go to a bumpy road and drive with the suspension in sports plus and not comfort? Very odd not to have completed a comparison and instead tape a pillow to his head
Youtubers need to stand out and get subs. I guess.
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      09-01-2019, 01:52 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dylan1357 View Post
Why go to a bumpy road and drive with the suspension in sports plus and not comfort? Very odd not to have completed a comparison and instead tape a pillow to his head
I have bad local roads similar to his but never drive over the worst of roads with suspension set in Sport in my M140i or X3 20i.
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      09-01-2019, 03:05 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mtxzptlk View Post
Youtubers need to stand out and get subs. I guess.
He said he has it in comfort all the time... he was just pointing out how this car would do in the UK (so we now know the adaptive suspension is useless even in comfort for that market) ... and believe me it's bumpy 90% of the time outside motorways .
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      09-01-2019, 03:42 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onfireX5 View Post
I'll get you that specific log. If you look at this log it is close to what you want. There is no converter flash as it was a rolling test. Start at 2000 rpm and the boost and compare it upward...
If we look at the boost numbers, magic seems to violently happen somewhere 3400 and 4000 ... so that's pretty valid argument from Joe. If you are cruising around you are under at 2k levels so no torque without dropping couple of gears. That engine is probably more fun in mountain roads and track however...
It's so much a sports car setup it makes it inadequate as a daily almost.
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      09-01-2019, 04:30 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dylan1357 View Post
Why go to a bumpy road and drive with the suspension in sports plus and not comfort? Very odd not to have completed a comparison and instead tape a pillow to his head
I was thinking the same thing myself. That would be like putting in in Comfort, tracking it, then complaining about excessive body roll in the corners. If he had taken a few minutes to RTFM, he'd have seen that sport plus was only intended for the very smoothest of tracks. I'm pretty new to the forum here but am beginning to see why so many groan every time this guy does a "review".
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      09-01-2019, 08:06 AM   #15
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I'm a little bit scared now, for my little 11 months daughters sake. I have a X3M on order. But I think the Swedish roads is better than that.
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      09-01-2019, 08:21 AM   #16
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Those roads were bad...and by no means a true representation of UK roads. If you live in the countryside the roads are narrow and bumpy...and yes there's lots of country roads in the UK, but about 1% of the UK population live and use them regularly.

In that scenario they buy something more suitable.

Joe drives his M2 Comp on those roads, I expect that's where he got the pillow idea...
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      09-01-2019, 02:47 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linusj View Post
I'm a little bit scared now, for my little 11 months daughters sake. I have a X3M on order. But I think the Swedish roads is better than that.
Swedish roads are like glass. You can daily an Aventador SVJ without discomfort.
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      09-01-2019, 03:22 PM   #18
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Joe and i filmed the "part 2" video this morning, so that should be up in about 7 to 10 days.
My MY19 X3 M40i shows the strengths and weaknesses of the X3M quite well i think.
The X3M is impressive, and would be a great drive in the right circumstances, but i'm not sure that's in the UK. German roads are wonderful, and i'm sure the X3M works brilliantly in that environment.
And my experience of Swedish roads suggests you'll be just fine too.
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      09-01-2019, 04:09 PM   #19
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A rather puzzling review and must admit, hard to watch all the way through.

Pointless to place in Sport+ and run that narrow rough road. BMW's M Engineering team have indicated the road conditions in which that setting should be used, so why even show that?

And I must be missing something here about the low-end torque issue. If I'm using manual paddle shifting, I have enough knowledge of conditions that if I need instant acceleration at any speed, and with my hands in proper steering wheel placement, I instantly downshift to obtain maximum torque. If I'm in auto then my experience with BMW's transmission has been smooth and quick downshifting to proper torque range (in high- and mid-range speed conditions).

So an honest question - why is the focus on a specific gear acceleration relevant to my real world driving? Why should I care if it has to downshift (which it has done many years, in many situations, and performed flawlessly)?
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      09-01-2019, 10:24 PM   #20
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He's complaining about 1200-1500 rpm torque issues? Yeah maybe it lacks torque below 2k rpms but if I'm looking for torque I don't really expect it in that range. Just shift. But if the power doesn't really start to build prior to 3k rpms then we've got a slight problem.
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      09-02-2019, 12:14 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
He's complaining about 1200-1500 rpm torque issues? Yeah maybe it lacks torque below 2k rpms but if I'm looking for torque I don't really expect it in that range. Just shift. But if the power doesn't really start to build prior to 3k rpms then we've got a slight problem.
For me I find that on the motorway at ~1800rpm in my M6 I can keep it in 7th and very quickly close gaps by going up in speed by 20-30kmh fairly quickly, and of course I never need to shift down to make it up a hill.

In an A45 which I drive quite a bit it is at the same RPM in 7th at the same speed (maybe plus or minus 50rpm) and to achieve the same acceleration at motorway speeds I need to drop to 5th gear.

Obviously one of these cars is a 2 litre and the other is a 4.4 litre but I'm hoping the X3M isn't like the A45. I might get to drive an X3M in the next few days as one has arrived in the country now so it will be interesting to compare and contrast a 3 litre heavily turboed car.
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      09-02-2019, 01:34 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crassus View Post
Every engine has strenghts and weaknesses.

The S58 has a single minded focus on emotion and responsiveness. Anyone who values max torque availability at 1,300-1,500rpm is better off buying an M40i or the up and coming X5M.
This pretty much sums it up--the M40i is a fantastic ride and the engine is sweet, but its NOT this car. The S58 is totally emotional once you hit around 3K RPM, and gives you a straight line of that emotion all the way to 7K. And it sounds great doing it. It is the closest feeling to my fave, a 2003 E46, I have experienced--but it does lag a bit at low RPMs. Gotta take the weaknesses with the strengths.

This engine kicks serious butt above 3K--I can deal with downshifting from time to time to get there. If you are worried about 0-60 time, well, that's what launch control is for. That's not really my main concern in a vehicle, but to each his own. Not saying this car can't get off the line, however. Guys around town are crying as they watch an X3 smoke them LOL.

RE: low end torque, it does feel a little lagging below 3K, but honestly, coming from a 2018 M4Comp, I prefer the power curve on this car. You can troll around town in efficient throttle, and if you keep it under 3K, things are very chill (with a nice exhaust note). The M4C/S55 was sweet, but not as easy revving as this engine, and overall more twitchy in city driving. Over 3K the S58, especially in Sport/Sport+ on the throttle, absolutely kills it. I think they deleted the interior audio engine racket in the X3M, but even so, the S58 has an ease about it and sound that is infectious and makes you want to rip on the thing endlessly. It just sings. I literally have to tell myself when I get into the car, "this is an under 3K drive" or else I end up going crazy on the throttle. Its such an easy revving engine that sounds so amazing, you can't help but want to wail on it.

For the typical day to day driver, the xDrive setup on this car is also way better than the M4. Yes, on a track or going balls out on the right drive, the rear drive (and MT) is killer on the M4. But most people under typical daily driving conditions can't control all that torque. The X3M rear-bias differential setup is a much better use of the power IMHO.

As you can tell, I am enjoying this car. But, it is true what some reviewers are saying: I can't wait to see what the new M3/M4 is like with this engine and powertrain. It has the potential to be really fantastic. The steering still feels a little dead on center and slightly numb overall (although very precise), but the future looks bright for the M3/M4. The S58 is awesome, next level performance.
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