Upgraded HPFP - TU / Dorch Stage 2 pump

abbike18 · 06-02-2022, 01:29 PM

I also did some virtual dynos...and the E30 stage 2+ tune is INSANE.

Check out the plots below. Also note that I'm at altitude and the stock turbo really struggles at higher RPMs, so I typically limit the boost on tunes and the turbo really lags above 5k RPM, so anyone lower would have better results.

psi in the legend is how much I've reduced the tune by, the temperature is the IATs of the pull.

suby01 · 06-02-2022, 03:51 PM

Did you compare your performance numbers? Dragy or M sport timer at least? So you can see the actual improvements.

abbike18 · 06-02-2022, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suby01

Did you compare your performance numbers? Dragy or M sport timer at least? So you can see the actual improvements.

I have 0-60 times from an OBD tool (uses actual speed not the upped speedo number) all in the exact same stretch of road for:
-Stock Tune (4.75)
-Stock Tune with xHP stage 2 (4.6)
-BM3 stage 1 91 with xHP stage 2 (4.02)

Keep in mind at 5000ft elevation.

I'll probably go back and do the 0-60 for the stage 2+ E30 just because.

I would love to get 60-130 numbers but there not many stretches of road I'm willing to do that on.

Chief Orman · 06-02-2022, 11:53 PM

My Dorch Stage 2 and my AA catted downpipe gathering dust.

abbike18 · 06-03-2022, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Orman

My Dorch Stage 2 and my AA catted downpipe gathering dust.

Why dust instead of install?

_ink · 06-03-2022, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Orman

Ink I think you are running a MHD Stage 2 E85 map? No? Did MHD customize the map for you. I am now sitting in my office with an AA catted downpipe and a Dorch Stage 2 asking myself if I really want to go down this path. I am running full E85 with no other mods and the car is pretty damn fast and I won't have to convert it back to stock on sale. Dumb question, but are you glad you made the mods? If I am converting your numbers correctly - which I doubt- I feel like you should be making much more horsepower…like close to 500 hp. I am guessing this has to do with atw measurement versus at the crank? How is driveability? Do you ever throw CELs? How is your fuel economy? I have taken probably a 30% hit running E85 which is not trivial.

Yeah, I'm running the MHD stage 2+ E30 map with my Dorch stage 2. Whilst you may be running full e85 now with your stock pump, you are risking your engine everytime you redline the engine due to fueling and timing capabilities at the upper rpm limits.

I have no regrets with my mods at all... This is like a "modder's code".. no regrets and no counting how much you've spent

kinda takes the enjoyment out of it if you do..

Driveability is great, I'm not always running the stage 2+ E30 map or filling up with e85 all the time though.. No CELs, and if I tracked fuel economy I would have bought a prius.

Chief Orman · 06-03-2022, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _ink

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Orman

Ink I think you are running a MHD Stage 2 E85 map? No? Did MHD customize the map for you. I am now sitting in my office with an AA catted downpipe and a Dorch Stage 2 asking myself if I really want to go down this path. I am running full E85 with no other mods and the car is pretty damn fast and I won't have to convert it back to stock on sale. Dumb question, but are you glad you made the mods? If I am converting your numbers correctly - which I doubt- I feel like you should be making much more horsepower…like close to 500 hp. I am guessing this has to do with atw measurement versus at the crank? How is driveability? Do you ever throw CELs? How is your fuel economy? I have taken probably a 30% hit running E85 which is not trivial.

Yeah, I'm running the MHD stage 2+ E30 map with my Dorch stage 2. Whilst you may be running full e85 now with your stock pump, you are risking your engine everytime you redline the engine due to fueling and timing capabilities at the upper rpm limits.

I have no regrets with my mods at all... This is like a "modder's code".. no regrets and no counting how much you've spent

kinda takes the enjoyment out of it if you do..

Driveability is great, I'm not always running the stage 2+ E30 map or filling up with e85 all the time though.. No CELs, and if I tracked fuel economy I would have bought a prius.

Lol on mods.

Why not run straight E85? Does your geography make E30 more readily available?

What sort of downpipe are you running?

Do you have a flex fuel module installed?

Chief Orman · 06-03-2022, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abbike18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Orman

My Dorch Stage 2 and my AA catted downpipe gathering dust.

Why dust instead of install?

Thinking I want to get a flex fuel module first and everyone is sold out

abbike18 · 06-03-2022, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Orman

Thinking I want to get a flex fuel module first and everyone is sold out

After playing with ethanol for the first time recently, I'll be taking a hard look at the flex fuel module when BM3 comes out with it for Gen1 G series B58s. Still don't have customROM support.

But yeah, E is awesome. But I want my wife to be able to just go fill the thing up and not worry about map switching. No E at the gas station? No problem.

Chief Orman · 06-03-2022, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abbike18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Orman

Thinking I want to get a flex fuel module first and everyone is sold out

After playing with ethanol for the first time recently, I'll be taking a hard look at the flex fuel module when BM3 comes out with it for Gen1 G series B58s. Still don't have customROM support.

But yeah, E is awesome. But I want my wife to be able to just go fill the thing up and not worry about map switching. No E at the gas station? No problem.

Exactly on the fill-up front

abbike18 · 06-03-2022, 03:23 PM

So I went and did a 0-60 run with the stg2+ E30 tune...3.97 seconds. So 0.05 seconds better than stage 1 91.

I would have expected better given the crazy increase in torque. A few things changed between the stg1 91 and stg2+ e30 run:
-Temperatures were much warmer, IATs were likely 30 degrees higher
-I edited the max RPM before shifting down 200 rpm. So it is possible that now to hit 60 my car has to shift twice. But I'm pretty sure that's always been the case for our cars?
-I forgot to turn off the A/C
-My son was in the car in his carseat. So extra weight. Further evidence of a lame 0-60 is that he slept through the launch lol.

I wouldn't expect those 3 items to explain the nearly 0 improvement given the insane torque curve of the stg2+ e30 tune.

I wonder if the launch control 'routine' in the DME doesn't actually use the full torque of the tune. I think it is a special routine so perhaps there are some limits being applied.

Any thoughts?

Chief Orman · 06-03-2022, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abbike18

So I went and did a 0-60 run with the stg2+ E30 tune...3.97 seconds. So 0.05 seconds better than stage 1 91.

I would have expected better given the crazy increase in torque. A few things changed between the stg1 91 and stg2+ e30 run:
-Temperatures were much warmer, IATs were likely 30 degrees higher
-I edited the max RPM before shifting down 200 rpm. So it is possible that now to hit 60 my car has to shift twice. But I'm pretty sure that's always been the case for our cars?
-I forgot to turn off the A/C
-My son was in the car in his carseat. So extra weight. Further evidence of a lame 0-60 is that he slept through the launch lol.

I wouldn't expect those 3 items to explain the nearly 0 improvement given the insane torque curve of the stg2+ e30 tune.

I wonder if the launch control 'routine' in the DME doesn't actually use the full torque of the tune. I think it is a special routine so perhaps there are some limits being applied.

Any thoughts?

Really helpful information. There is a feature in XHP to manage launch control but I couldn't discern any difference vis-a-vis just using standard launch control. The directions were also a bit confusing around traction control being on or off. If memory serves the XHP instructions are pretty frank about the stress you put on driveline components in an all wheel drive with 0-60 runs. For more on XHP launch control I think Kies Garage has something on YouTube.

Here it is for an N55

abbike18 · 06-03-2022, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Orman

Really helpful information. There is a feature in XHP to manage launch control but I couldn't discern any difference vis-a-vis just using standard launch control. The directions were also a bit confusing around traction control being on or off. If memory serves the XHP instructions are pretty frank about the stress you put on driveline components in an all wheel drive with 0-60 runs. For more on XHP launch control I think Kies Garage has something on YouTube.

Here it is for an N55 https://youtu.be/DLUvi6YBarw

To be honest I'm not really chasing 0-60 times. It's just the easiest performance time to capture on public roads.

I totally agree about the stresses, which is why I've only launched the car 6 times since getting it. I probably won't go launch the thing a ton trying to figure this out.

I just read the custom launch control feature in xHP. After reading it it seems like for LC the transmission actually manages the torque. This lends itself to my theory that the LC routine isn't accessing the full potential of the stg2+ E30 tune.

Chief Orman · 06-03-2022, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abbike18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Orman

Really helpful information. There is a feature in XHP to manage launch control but I couldn't discern any difference vis-a-vis just using standard launch control. The directions were also a bit confusing around traction control being on or off. If memory serves the XHP instructions are pretty frank about the stress you put on driveline components in an all wheel drive with 0-60 runs. For more on XHP launch control I think Kies Garage has something on YouTube.

Here it is for an N55

To be honest I'm not really chasing 0-60 times. It's just the easiest performance time to capture on public roads.

I totally agree about the stresses, which is why I've only launched the car 6 times since getting it. I probably won't go launch the thing a ton trying to figure this out.

I just read the custom launch control feature in xHP. After reading it it seems like for LC the transmission actually manages the torque. This lends itself to my theory that the LC routine isn't accessing the full potential of the stg2+ E30 tune.

Feel the same way about 0-60…5-90 is my preferred run

Probably right on your launch control theory

Chief Orman · 06-03-2022, 06:37 PM

For anyone out there switching between E85 and premium fuel, please log your exhaust temps…I would think E85 would substantially reduce them

abbike18 · 06-03-2022, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Orman

For anyone out there switching between E85 and premium fuel, please log your exhaust temps…I would think E85 would substantially reduce them

I'm only going up to e30, but I'll try to add this to my logs.

Also, I started a new thread on launch control as to not derail this thread. I logged a launch control and I think it supports my theory.

https://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showt...php?p=28975891

dinan5m3 · 06-03-2022, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Orman

Thinking I want to get a flex fuel module first and everyone is sold out

We (gen 1 b58 folks on G01) will wait long (long) time. Dorch gave up on it. And MHD only has for F cars.

And PTF has been working pnp version for gen 1 b58, forever.........

Bummer...

Burr001 · 06-03-2022, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chief orman

my dorch stage 2 and my aa catted downpipe gathering dust.

are you hoarding any more parts?

abbike18 · 06-03-2022, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dinan5m3

We (gen 1 b58 folks on G01) will wait long (long) time. Dorch gave up on it. And MHD only has for F cars.

And PTF has been working pnp version for gen 1 b58, forever.........

Bummer...

I got this from PTF 2 weeks ago: "Our development team is still working on adding support for the G series. We are nearing the end of the final stages of testing."

dinan5m3 · 06-03-2022, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abbike18

I got this from PTF 2 weeks ago: "Our development team is still working on adding support for the G series. We are nearing the end of the final stages of testing."

LOL, that is what i got from them last year around the black friday time frame.

But, i'll take anything at this point to go with solution at the low pressure pump as pnp solution.

Hurry it up, please!

abbike18 · 06-03-2022, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dinan5m3

LOL, that is what i got from them last year around the black friday time frame.

But, i'll take anything at this point to go with solution at the low pressure pump as pnp solution.

Hurry it up, please!

Yeah..."nearing the end of final stages of testing" sounds like what I would tell an exec when I'm behind on delivering a project lol

Chief Orman · 06-04-2022, 12:53 AM

So the only solution is if you go on a long road trip 1) precisely map out E85 stations on route using one of the available apps. This seems feasible out west; or 2) run straight premium with a totally unnecessary Dorch fuel pump.

I am taking a trip from CA to TX and with some inconvenience finding E85 can be done or just keep your Flashtool handy when you are forced to switch to straight gasoline.

This flex fuel module thing is annoying. It is not like we are trying to split the atom here.

06-02-2022, 01:29 PM	#45
abbike18 Lieutenant 701 Rep 554 Posts Drives: 2019 BMW X3 M40i Join Date: Jul 2019 Location: Colorado, USA iTrader: (0)	I also did some virtual dynos...and the E30 stage 2+ tune is INSANE. Check out the plots below. Also note that I'm at altitude and the stock turbo really struggles at higher RPMs, so I typically limit the boost on tunes and the turbo really lags above 5k RPM, so anyone lower would have better results. psi in the legend is how much I've reduced the tune by, the temperature is the IATs of the pull. Attached Images __________________ 2019 X3 M40i \| TU Pump \| AA DP \| VTT GC \| xHP Stage 2 \| Dorch ECA \| MHD Odin FF \| Carbon Black \| Adaptive Suspension \| M-Sport Rear Diff \| 20" staggered SOLD! 2015 X1 35i \| Alpina Trans Tune \| Dinan Stage 2 \| Bilstein B6 Last edited by abbike18; 06-02-2022 at 02:51 PM..
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06-02-2022, 03:51 PM	#46
suby01 Cowboy Astronaut Millionaire 2314 Rep 2,885 Posts Drives: 2020 X3 M40i Join Date: Aug 2019 Location: CT, USA iTrader: (0)	Did you compare your performance numbers? Dragy or M sport timer at least? So you can see the actual improvements. __________________ The Youtubes https://youtu.be/gzinBJjxIUY Insta https://www.instagram.com/gatosandturbos/
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06-02-2022, 11:53 PM	#48
Chief Orman Major 671 Rep 1,442 Posts Drives: 335D 2010 Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: East Bay, Nor Cal iTrader: (0)	My Dorch Stage 2 and my AA catted downpipe gathering dust. Attached Images
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06-03-2022, 03:23 PM	#55
abbike18 Lieutenant 701 Rep 554 Posts Drives: 2019 BMW X3 M40i Join Date: Jul 2019 Location: Colorado, USA iTrader: (0)	So I went and did a 0-60 run with the stg2+ E30 tune...3.97 seconds. So 0.05 seconds better than stage 1 91. I would have expected better given the crazy increase in torque. A few things changed between the stg1 91 and stg2+ e30 run: -Temperatures were much warmer, IATs were likely 30 degrees higher -I edited the max RPM before shifting down 200 rpm. So it is possible that now to hit 60 my car has to shift twice. But I'm pretty sure that's always been the case for our cars? -I forgot to turn off the A/C -My son was in the car in his carseat. So extra weight. Further evidence of a lame 0-60 is that he slept through the launch lol. I wouldn't expect those 3 items to explain the nearly 0 improvement given the insane torque curve of the stg2+ e30 tune. I wonder if the launch control 'routine' in the DME doesn't actually use the full torque of the tune. I think it is a special routine so perhaps there are some limits being applied. Any thoughts? __________________ 2019 X3 M40i \| TU Pump \| AA DP \| VTT GC \| xHP Stage 2 \| Dorch ECA \| MHD Odin FF \| Carbon Black \| Adaptive Suspension \| M-Sport Rear Diff \| 20" staggered SOLD! 2015 X1 35i \| Alpina Trans Tune \| Dinan Stage 2 \| Bilstein B6
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06-03-2022, 06:37 PM	#59
Chief Orman Major 671 Rep 1,442 Posts Drives: 335D 2010 Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: East Bay, Nor Cal iTrader: (0)	For anyone out there switching between E85 and premium fuel, please log your exhaust temps…I would think E85 would substantially reduce them
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06-04-2022, 12:53 AM	#66
Chief Orman Major 671 Rep 1,442 Posts Drives: 335D 2010 Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: East Bay, Nor Cal iTrader: (0)	So the only solution is if you go on a long road trip 1) precisely map out E85 stations on route using one of the available apps. This seems feasible out west; or 2) run straight premium with a totally unnecessary Dorch fuel pump. I am taking a trip from CA to TX and with some inconvenience finding E85 can be done or just keep your Flashtool handy when you are forced to switch to straight gasoline. This flex fuel module thing is annoying. It is not like we are trying to split the atom here.
	Appreciate 2 dinan5m34263.50 abbike18701.00 Quote