[seccsc]

Hey BMW, I am interested in purchasing an X3 M40d; however, I live in the U.S.

Anybody else here in North America interested?

[teaston]

The only reason to have an M40d over an M40i is the fuel economy, and as fuel is so cheap in America, there's really no point in it!

[SteveX3M40i]

And US spec. diesel is such poor quality.
I would not like to use USA specification diesel on a high performance SUV with common rail diesel injection.

[seccsc]

Originally Posted by teaston

The only reason to have an M40d over an M40i is the fuel economy, and as fuel is so cheap in America, there's really no point in it!

With the B57 engine being ~40% more efficient and essentially the same performance output as a M40i, we would save about 50% in fuel costs and less in CO2 emissions.

[clivem2]

Originally Posted by seccsc

With the B57 engine being ~40% more efficient and essentially the same performance output as a M40i, we would save about 50% in fuel costs and less in CO2 emissions.

I have a 35D F25, the engine is very similar to the M40d. Mileage is about 20% better than expect from the M40i. If I drive the 35D hard it drinks just as hard as a petrol/gas engine. If I'm really gentle then it can be very economical but this never lasts long.

[seccsc]

Originally Posted by SteveX3M40i

And US spec. diesel is such poor quality.
I would not like to use USA specification diesel on a high performance SUV with common rail diesel injection.

Based on what I'm reading, Diesel sulfur spec In the USA is less than 15 ppm and Germany is less than 10 ppm. USA Cetane level meets what is covered in the users manual.

[seccsc]

Originally Posted by clivem2

I have a 35D F25, the engine is very similar to the M40d. Mileage is about 20% better than expect from the M40i. If I drive the 35D hard it drinks just as hard as a petrol/gas engine. If I'm really gentle then it can be very economical but this never lasts long.

I agree, you hammer any of these cars, they will drink the fuel. I base my fuel savings on a 93 octane usage, especially with my N54.

[SteveX3M40i]

Originally Posted by seccsc

Based on what I'm reading, Diesel sulfur spec In the USA is less than 15 ppm and Germany is less than 10 ppm. USA Cetane level meets what is covered in the users manual.

Hi,
There is more to diesel than sulphur and cetane values.
The key problem with diesel in certain parts of the world is the lubricity.
The sulphur in diesel aids lubricity - so removing the sulphur lowers this.
As diesel serves two functions in an engine - fuel and lubricant - low lubricity means premature wear on engine components.
This does not matter much on an old Golf Pump Duse - unit injector engine but it is critical on a modern common rail engine with extremely high pressures and very fine fuel injection system tolerances.
Fuel suppliers add different additives to their pump fuel to aid lubricity, boost cetane levels and keep engines clean.
Apparently these are not so advanced in US spec. diesel (probably due to the relatively low uptake of Diesel engined road cars in the USA) and the added costs.
I used to work for one of the worlds leading diesel fuel injection system manufacturers - so spent a lot of time on this subject!
Cheers
Steve

[teaston]

Originally Posted by seccsc

With the B57 engine being ~40% more efficient and essentially the same performance output as a M40i, we would save about 50% in fuel costs and less in CO2 emissions.

But when fuel is so cheap in USA, is it worth the savings? Looks like it's currently around 80 cents a litre there, whereas in the UK it's close to $2 a litre!!

[seccsc]

Originally Posted by teaston

But when fuel is so cheap in USA, is it worth the savings? Looks like it's currently around 80 cents a litre there, whereas in the UK it's close to $2 a litre!!

I think so based on how long I keep vehicles. I've had my 335i for almost 12 years.

[seccsc]

Originally Posted by SteveX3M40i

Hi,
There is more to diesel than sulphur and cetane values.
The key problem with diesel in certain parts of the world is the lubricity.
The sulphur in diesel aids lubricity - so removing the sulphur lowers this.
As diesel serves two functions in an engine - fuel and lubricant - low lubricity means premature wear on engine components.
This does not matter much on an old Golf Pump Duse - unit injector engine but it is critical on a modern common rail engine with extremely high pressures and very fine fuel injection system tolerances.
Fuel suppliers add different additives to their pump fuel to aid lubricity, boost cetane levels and keep engines clean.
Apparently these are not so advanced in US spec. diesel (probably due to the relatively low uptake of Diesel engined road cars in the USA) and the added costs.
I used to work for one of the worlds leading diesel fuel injection system manufacturers - so spent a lot of time on this subject!
Cheers
Steve

Hello Steve,

Thank you for the insight.

The one item I don't understand how specifically this would cause wear in the engine. All engine internal components are oil lubricated and the fuel is direct injected. However, I can see this issue being a specific problem with the injectors and the high pressure fuel pumps (HPFP). The B57 engines run a fuel pressure at 26,000 psi and I can see that being a problem. When I purchased my 335i 12 years ago, the initial N54 HPFPs were failing due to the USA petrol containing 10% ethanol and lowered the lubricity causing internal seal failures in the fuel pumps compared to European vehicles. BMW redesigned the HPFPs and have been pretty steady since.
It would be awesome if BMW already designed the B57 knowing that difference.
Another thought, running fuel pressure at 26,000 psi is very much different from 3,000 psi of an N54 HPFP.

Thoughts?

Cheers,
Sam

[SteveX3M40i]

Originally Posted by seccsc

Hello Steve,

Thank you for the insight.

The one item I don't understand how specifically this would cause wear in the engine. All engine internal components are oil lubricated and the fuel is direct injected. However, I can see this issue being a specific problem with the injectors and the high pressure fuel pumps (HPFP). The B57 engines run a fuel pressure at 26,000 psi and I can see that being a problem. When I purchased my 335i 12 years ago, the initial N54 HPFPs were failing due to the USA petrol containing 10% ethanol and lowered the lubricity causing internal seal failures in the fuel pumps compared to European vehicles. BMW redesigned the HPFPs and have been pretty steady since.
It would be awesome if BMW already designed the B57 knowing that difference.
Another thought, running fuel pressure at 26,000 psi is very much different from 3,000 psi of an N54 HPFP.

Thoughts?

Cheers,
Sam

Hi Sam,
Yes it’s the diesel fuel high pressure injection pump and injectors that are prone to premature wear from low lubricity diesel.
There are also problems with injectors sticking - due to a varnish like build up on the mating surfaces - this increases the component diameter and reduces the already small clearances until the control valves inside the injector eventually stick (and stop working).
Cheers
Steve

[Doug Hoover]

Bring that M40 diesel here and the faithful BMW crowd will buy it !

[chassis]

I have personal experience with a VW dieselgate vehicle. The fuel economy of modern diesels is excellent. The reliability of the emissions system is very poor. This mainly means EGR, NOx hardware, DPF, DEF hardware and turbos.

I think there is some truth in the fuel specification difference between North America and the rest of the world. There is also a prevalence of biodiesel in the US, which may or may not be a factor.

Have a read on the Mercedes-Benz forum. Diesel failures abound. A number of M-B owners on that site speak openly about their experiences.

Furthermore, there is no financial equation that benefits the consumer, when buying a diesel passenger vehicle in the US. Initial purchase price is higher, and combined with higher maintenance cost and poor reliability, the fuel cost savings are eaten by the aforementioned costs.

While it would be nice, I do not see the German car companies bringing diesels to the US until the dieselgate situation fully blows over. Daimler is under scrutiny now in a similar way that VW was, related to diesel emissions irregularities.

[mattchops]

I definitely would have bought one. I tried to get the last model diesel X5, but had trouble sourcing one in the options I wanted, since by that time they had stopped making them. it sucks we can't get that motor. I'm not sure if the diesel didn't sell well in general or they're worried about the whole VW diesel-gate scandal.

[SteveX3M40i]

Originally Posted by mattchops

I definitely would have bought one. I tried to get the last model diesel X5, but had trouble sourcing one in the options I wanted, since by that time they had stopped making them. it sucks we can't get that motor. I'm not sure if the diesel didn't sell well in general or they're worried about the whole VW diesel-gate scandal.

Hi,
I think the manufacturers know that pump diesel in the USA is not very suitable for cars (OK for trucks) - so they don’t want to risk big warranty bills and their reputation by selling diesel cars.
Therefore unrelated to the dieselgate scandal - which was all about rigging emissions.
Cheers
Steve

[Lenny_RDM]

Originally Posted by seccsc

Hey BMW, I am interested in purchasing an X3 M40d; however, I live in the U.S.

Anybody else here in North America interested?

With this diesel in Usa this car die really fast....

[Lenny_RDM]

Originally Posted by SteveX3M40i

Hi,
I think the manufacturers know that pump diesel in the USA is not very suitable for cars (OK for trucks) - so they don’t want to risk big warranty bills and their reputation by selling diesel cars.
Therefore unrelated to the dieselgate scandal - which was all about rigging emissions.
Cheers
Steve

I'm truck driver, believe me this eco diesel is garbage, so many times i got problems in my semi..... new cars are sensitive tooooo sensitive;///

[seccsc]

Originally Posted by SteveX3M40i

Hi Sam,
Yes it's the diesel fuel high pressure injection pump and injectors that are prone to premature wear from low lubricity diesel.
There are also problems with injectors sticking - due to a varnish like build up on the mating surfaces - this increases the component diameter and reduces the already small clearances until the control valves inside the injector eventually stick (and stop working).
Cheers
Steve

Steve,

Based your background, do you have any additive recommendations to combat this issue?