Best guess if the UK is hit with WTO rules

clivem2 · 09-12-2019, 07:32 AM

Given that my new G01 is due for delivery in week 46, after the 31st Oct I'm considering what might happen if new cars are hit with a 10% levy + I expect additional VAT on that.

My written contract says I can pull of of the deal if the agreed price increases. That's fine as there needs to be a contractual position.

The first question is 10% of what value would be levied? Is it based on the price BMW GMBH charge BMW UK?

BMW need to keep the UK buying cars to help keep their factories running and the UK is a major market for them. So what might BMW do:

1) pass on the full increase to their UK customers

2) absorb the full cost

3) negotiate say 15% paid by the customer, 30% by the dealer, 55% by BMW GMBH

Does anyone have any juicy rumours or thoughts?

Meantime · 09-12-2019, 08:25 AM

Clivem, my papers say the same, of course. But my dealer assured me, from the very beginning, that they will honour the price we agreed on, no matter what. So, b) is my guess.

clivem2 · 09-12-2019, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meantime

Clivem, my papers say the same, of course. But my dealer assured me, from the very beginning, that they will honour the price we agreed on, no matter what. So, b) is my guess.

Meantime (btw, it's great to be named after a beer!), naturally that's my hope. It's just as well I didn't go for the Macan as Porsche would almost certainly pass on the entire tariff to the customer saying it would help residuals!

Meantime · 09-12-2019, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clivem2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meantime

Clivem, my papers say the same, of course. But my dealer assured me, from the very beginning, that they will honour the price we agreed on, no matter what. So, b) is my guess.

Meantime (btw, it's great to be named after a beer!), naturally that's my hope. It's just as well I didn't go for the Macan as Porsche would almost certainly pass on the entire tariff to the customer saying it would help residuals!

😄 and 😀

BMW Downunder · 09-13-2019, 01:23 AM

Different but the same... here in Victoria Australia we have a state government charge - stamp duty. In a recent budget they increased the way in which a “luxury car” was assessed. For some BMW’s it represented a significant (but less than 10%) change in price. Dealers wrote to impacted customers advising of the new government charge and advised a) you could source another care pre tax change, b) exit the contract or c) pay the higher amount.

clivem2 · 09-13-2019, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMW Downunder

Different but the same... here in Victoria Australia we have a state government charge - stamp duty. In a recent budget they increased the way in which a “luxury car” was assessed. For some BMW’s it represented a significant (but less than 10%) change in price. Dealers wrote to impacted customers advising of the new government charge and advised a) you could source another care pre tax change, b) exit the contract or c) pay the higher amount.

I suppose in your situation you could buy in another state, albeit quite a distance away or do you "import" to your home state and local taxes? The other difference is that if the UK goes WTO it'll probably be somewhat temporary so it could be a short term pain BMW could live with...I hope!

teaston · 09-13-2019, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meantime

Quote:

Originally Posted by clivem2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meantime

Clivem, my papers say the same, of course. But my dealer assured me, from the very beginning, that they will honour the price we agreed on, no matter what. So, b) is my guess.

Meantime (btw, it's great to be named after a beer!), naturally that's my hope. It's just as well I didn't go for the Macan as Porsche would almost certainly pass on the entire tariff to the customer saying it would help residuals!

😄 and 😀

Quote:

Originally Posted by clivem2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meantime

Clivem, my papers say the same, of course. But my dealer assured me, from the very beginning, that they will honour the price we agreed on, no matter what. So, b) is my guess.

Meantime (btw, it's great to be named after a beer!), naturally that's my hope. It's just as well I didn't go for the Macan as Porsche would almost certainly pass on the entire tariff to the customer saying it would help residuals!

Have you done the Meantime Brewery tour? Its bloody brilliant, just a piss up in a brewery basically!

Meantime · 09-13-2019, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teaston

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meantime

Quote:

Originally Posted by clivem2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meantime

Clivem, my papers say the same, of course. But my dealer assured me, from the very beginning, that they will honour the price we agreed on, no matter what. So, b) is my guess.

Meantime (btw, it's great to be named after a beer!), naturally that's my hope. It's just as well I didn't go for the Macan as Porsche would almost certainly pass on the entire tariff to the customer saying it would help residuals!

😄 and 😀

Quote:

Originally Posted by clivem2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meantime

Clivem, my papers say the same, of course. But my dealer assured me, from the very beginning, that they will honour the price we agreed on, no matter what. So, b) is my guess.

Meantime (btw, it's great to be named after a beer!), naturally that's my hope. It's just as well I didn't go for the Macan as Porsche would almost certainly pass on the entire tariff to the customer saying it would help residuals!

Have you done the Meantime Brewery tour? Its bloody brilliant, just a piss up in a brewery basically!

😃 Sure I have, this is my local brewery. And this is where I am going to relief the pain if I have to cancel my order due to scenario 1) customs duties passed on me..

clivem2 · 09-13-2019, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meantime

�� Sure I have, this is my local brewery. And this is where I am going to relief the pain if I have to cancel my order due to scenario 1) customs duties passed on me..

You'd probably find your dealer there too...

BMW Downunder · 09-13-2019, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clivem2

I suppose in your situation you could buy in another state, albeit quite a distance away or do you "import" to your home state and local taxes? The other difference is that if the UK goes WTO it'll probably be somewhat temporary so it could be a short term pain BMW could live with...I hope!

Not so easy to register a car in another state in Australia. Especially as the distances are at least 500 miles/800 km between capital cities where the population in Australia is centralised.

However, I agree that our change was ‘permanent’ whereas yours may be ‘temporary’.

Best of luck with Brexit.

cgroves · 09-13-2019, 10:49 AM

Sorry, I don't care what BMW pays to manufacture the car and ship it to the customer. The sales contract was an agreement between the dealership and the buyer entirely within the UK. BMW doesn't get to enjoy the savings of centralizing manufacturing in Spartansburg and then impose the unexpected costs of that process on specific customers. Raise the price for future car orders sure, but the contracts in place stand.
That is unless there is wording in the sales contract allowing for them to pass on those types of costs.

clivem2 · 09-13-2019, 11:22 AM

The wording context is that we can refuse the car if the price goes up, we would get our deposit back.

RedPepper · 09-16-2019, 05:17 AM

Ordered my X3 yesterday (delivery in December) and the salesman confirmed that I could pull out if the possible 10% surcharge were to come into effect.

Obviously this would be affecting all their new cars at that time and so they could have a glut of unwanted stock, but he said right now they are not making any promises on how it would be handled (other than confirming my right to cancel).

From what he said (and didn't say!) I suspect some compromise would be likely - probably splitting the pain 50/50 between the dealer and me.

Kermez · 09-16-2019, 05:42 AM

Just checked prices on UK website and pricing there is incredible! Not sure why but it is much better priced than even in Germany and I haven't seen better prices anywhere in Europe so even with potential10% increase (which I highly doubt will come in place) it remains best offer. Anyone know the reason, as I assumed UK had higher prices due to wheel side?

clivem2 · 09-16-2019, 05:53 AM

The list price is one thing. Actual price paid is different. Might be better or worse than in Germany. What sort of discounts are available in Germany?

You may be surprised how big the right hand drive global population is... it's a third of the world population, not always the most prosperous but they are coming up.

Kermez · 09-16-2019, 06:42 AM

I'm living in Switzerland so no clue about discounts in Germany, but here should be up to 20% max discount, usual ones are 15-18% as part of fleet discounts, otherwise some 10%. Even with such discounts it's still much higher than what I saw on uk site. And I assume there is some discount in UK as well.

Too bad we don't drive right hand, I guess everyone would be importing from UK

clivem2 · 09-16-2019, 06:48 AM

Some of the UK pricing is down to our currency value and Brexit... it might look better value to you than it feels in the UK!

Discounts in the UK can be around 16% to 19% IME.

clivem2 · 09-25-2019, 05:45 AM

I've just heard from my dealer that BMW are price-protecting orders placed pre-Brexit, he got the memo today. There are some Ts & Cs but these haven't been shared yet. Anyway, that's positive news.

RedPepper · 09-25-2019, 07:30 AM

That's fantastic news if T&Cs are straightforward. I'm sure the dealers will be as relieved (if not more so) than we are!

ClaretFozzy · 09-25-2019, 08:27 AM

Yep, good news indeed. Just had it confirmed by TRL also.

lochview · 09-25-2019, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clivem2

I've just heard from my dealer that BMW are price-protecting orders placed pre-Brexit, he got the memo today. There are some Ts & Cs but these haven't been shared yet. Anyway, that's positive news.

Fantastic news

Goneinsixtyseconds · 09-27-2019, 08:42 AM

Just ordered an X3 M40d to replace my 440i Gran Coupe, but is a car already in UK stock, so not affected by this.

This is my first post on the X3 section, and I don't have loads of knowledge about the X3, but isn't it produced outside the EU?

If so, what is the current import tariff into the EU, is it any more or less than WTO?

Apologies if I'm mistaken and there's an X3 production facility in Europe that I don't know about.

09-12-2019, 07:32 AM	#1
clivem2 Colonel 541 Rep 2,073 Posts Drives: X3 M40i Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	Best guess if the UK is hit with WTO rules Given that my new G01 is due for delivery in week 46, after the 31st Oct I'm considering what might happen if new cars are hit with a 10% levy + I expect additional VAT on that. My written contract says I can pull of of the deal if the agreed price increases. That's fine as there needs to be a contractual position. The first question is 10% of what value would be levied? Is it based on the price BMW GMBH charge BMW UK? BMW need to keep the UK buying cars to help keep their factories running and the UK is a major market for them. So what might BMW do: 1) pass on the full increase to their UK customers 2) absorb the full cost 3) negotiate say 15% paid by the customer, 30% by the dealer, 55% by BMW GMBH Does anyone have any juicy rumours or thoughts? __________________ Current: G01 M40i Silver / Tartufo Previous: E30 318iS, E39 520i 523i 523i, E46 vert 330i 330i, E93 vert 335i, F25 30D 35D
	Appreciate 0 Tweet Quote

09-12-2019, 08:25 AM	#2
Meantime Private 67 Rep 72 Posts Drives: Silver one Join Date: Aug 2019 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	Clivem, my papers say the same, of course. But my dealer assured me, from the very beginning, that they will honour the price we agreed on, no matter what. So, b) is my guess.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

09-13-2019, 01:23 AM	#5
BMW Downunder New Member 30 Rep 9 Posts Drives: G02 X4 M40i Join Date: Jul 2019 Location: Melbourne, Australia iTrader: (0)	Different but the same... here in Victoria Australia we have a state government charge - stamp duty. In a recent budget they increased the way in which a “luxury car” was assessed. For some BMW’s it represented a significant (but less than 10%) change in price. Dealers wrote to impacted customers advising of the new government charge and advised a) you could source another care pre tax change, b) exit the contract or c) pay the higher amount.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

09-13-2019, 10:49 AM	#11
cgroves Exalted Tire Scorcher 35 Rep 91 Posts Drives: 2019 X3 M40i Graphite Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Canada iTrader: (0)	Sorry, I don't care what BMW pays to manufacture the car and ship it to the customer. The sales contract was an agreement between the dealership and the buyer entirely within the UK. BMW doesn't get to enjoy the savings of centralizing manufacturing in Spartansburg and then impose the unexpected costs of that process on specific customers. Raise the price for future car orders sure, but the contracts in place stand. That is unless there is wording in the sales contract allowing for them to pass on those types of costs. __________________ Now: 2019 G01 X3 ///M40i Graphite Metallic Sold: 2012 535i, 2009 328i
	Appreciate 0 Quote

09-13-2019, 11:22 AM	#12
clivem2 Colonel 541 Rep 2,073 Posts Drives: X3 M40i Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	The wording context is that we can refuse the car if the price goes up, we would get our deposit back.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

09-16-2019, 05:17 AM	#13
RedPepper First Lieutenant 184 Rep 322 Posts Drives: 2023 X4 M40d Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: North Bucks, UK iTrader: (0)	Ordered my X3 yesterday (delivery in December) and the salesman confirmed that I could pull out if the possible 10% surcharge were to come into effect. Obviously this would be affecting all their new cars at that time and so they could have a glut of unwanted stock, but he said right now they are not making any promises on how it would be handled (other than confirming my right to cancel). From what he said (and didn't say!) I suspect some compromise would be likely - probably splitting the pain 50/50 between the dealer and me. __________________ Current: 2023 X4 M40d (Brooklyn Grey) Former: 2019 X3 M40d (Sophisto Grey), 2016 335d xDrive Touring (Estoril Blue), 2013 330d xDrive Touring (Mineral Grey) Before that: Jag XF 3.0dS, Several Audi A6 3.0TDi Avants, BMW X5 4.4i, BMW 330Ci (and before that is too embarrassing to speak of!)
	Appreciate 0 Quote

09-16-2019, 05:42 AM	#14
Kermez Private 30 Rep 99 Posts Drives: NA Join Date: Jul 2019 Location: Switzerland iTrader: (0)	Just checked prices on UK website and pricing there is incredible! Not sure why but it is much better priced than even in Germany and I haven't seen better prices anywhere in Europe so even with potential10% increase (which I highly doubt will come in place) it remains best offer. Anyone know the reason, as I assumed UK had higher prices due to wheel side?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

09-16-2019, 05:53 AM	#15
clivem2 Colonel 541 Rep 2,073 Posts Drives: X3 M40i Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	The list price is one thing. Actual price paid is different. Might be better or worse than in Germany. What sort of discounts are available in Germany? You may be surprised how big the right hand drive global population is... it's a third of the world population, not always the most prosperous but they are coming up. Last edited by clivem2; 09-16-2019 at 06:02 AM..
	Appreciate 0 Quote

09-16-2019, 06:42 AM	#16
Kermez Private 30 Rep 99 Posts Drives: NA Join Date: Jul 2019 Location: Switzerland iTrader: (0)	I'm living in Switzerland so no clue about discounts in Germany, but here should be up to 20% max discount, usual ones are 15-18% as part of fleet discounts, otherwise some 10%. Even with such discounts it's still much higher than what I saw on uk site. And I assume there is some discount in UK as well. Too bad we don't drive right hand, I guess everyone would be importing from UK
	Appreciate 0 Quote

09-16-2019, 06:48 AM	#17
clivem2 Colonel 541 Rep 2,073 Posts Drives: X3 M40i Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	Some of the UK pricing is down to our currency value and Brexit... it might look better value to you than it feels in the UK! Discounts in the UK can be around 16% to 19% IME.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

09-25-2019, 05:45 AM	#18
clivem2 Colonel 541 Rep 2,073 Posts Drives: X3 M40i Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	I've just heard from my dealer that BMW are price-protecting orders placed pre-Brexit, he got the memo today. There are some Ts & Cs but these haven't been shared yet. Anyway, that's positive news. __________________ Current: G01 M40i Silver / Tartufo Previous: E30 318iS, E39 520i 523i 523i, E46 vert 330i 330i, E93 vert 335i, F25 30D 35D Last edited by clivem2; 09-25-2019 at 07:44 AM.. Reason: typo
	Appreciate 1 lochview78.50 Quote

09-25-2019, 07:30 AM	#19
RedPepper First Lieutenant 184 Rep 322 Posts Drives: 2023 X4 M40d Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: North Bucks, UK iTrader: (0)	That's fantastic news if T&Cs are straightforward. I'm sure the dealers will be as relieved (if not more so) than we are! __________________ Current: 2023 X4 M40d (Brooklyn Grey) Former: 2019 X3 M40d (Sophisto Grey), 2016 335d xDrive Touring (Estoril Blue), 2013 330d xDrive Touring (Mineral Grey) Before that: Jag XF 3.0dS, Several Audi A6 3.0TDi Avants, BMW X5 4.4i, BMW 330Ci (and before that is too embarrassing to speak of!)
	Appreciate 0 Quote

09-25-2019, 08:27 AM	#20
ClaretFozzy Second Lieutenant 101 Rep 280 Posts Drives: BMW X3 M40d Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: Lancashire iTrader: (0)	Yep, good news indeed. Just had it confirmed by TRL also.
	Appreciate 1 lochview78.50 Quote

09-27-2019, 08:42 AM	#22
Goneinsixtyseconds Banned 4280 Rep 7,703 Posts Drives: Q7 & Clubman JCW on order Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Chesterfield iTrader: (0)	Just ordered an X3 M40d to replace my 440i Gran Coupe, but is a car already in UK stock, so not affected by this. This is my first post on the X3 section, and I don't have loads of knowledge about the X3, but isn't it produced outside the EU? If so, what is the current import tariff into the EU, is it any more or less than WTO? Apologies if I'm mistaken and there's an X3 production facility in Europe that I don't know about.
	Appreciate 0 Quote