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      02-19-2019, 03:27 PM   #23
bimmer67
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Thanks for the reply.

Exactly. Well over 100k. I'm also doing most work myself.
I agree that it's not a terrible leak but seepage but the car is 5yo with only 53k miles under CPO and the fact that BMW says it's not an issue is just....
They would definitely "help" me to take care of those issues if it was out of warranty.
If the transfer case had a leak and I wasn't taking covers off to check what is going on I'd probably notice it when it would be too late to fix a leak but would need a new transfer case. All those powertrain parts are covered as you know and transfer case doesn't have much fluid in it. It could seep till it's empty without leaving any spots on the garage floor.
It seems like newer BMW's are designed to start failing after warranties run out.
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      02-19-2019, 05:49 PM   #24
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Hmmm.....got me thinking now - maybe it's time to pull my underbelly covers and give some serious thought to creating strategically placed 'trap doors' (like the one covering pan drain plug) to make it quick/simple to inspect undercarriage.

Yeah, your car is pretty young to be having minor 'seepage' issues.

What's your plan going forward?
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      02-20-2019, 08:58 AM   #25
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Not sure at this moment to tell you the truth....
N20 engine chain issue alone made me think that I'd have to get rid of it and now more stuff that will not be an easy and cheap fix even if I'd try it myself. The guy that runs bmwtechnician.com suggested getting rid of the car if the chain issue will not be fixed while under warranty. That was before I found out about those seepage issues....
My rear tailgate lights are off also) Passed Inspection at BMW. They didn't even notice. That's a known issue and easy fix though.
I got some time to think. The worse part that I still owe a ton for it and the value of any BMW drops like crazy for the first 6 years. I was planning to keep it for a long time....

Maybe I'll send those pictures along with some pictures of my 17 y.o. Honda Odyssey with 167k miles with no sign of any seepage to BMW of NA... I know they wouldn't care...
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      02-20-2019, 09:08 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by its4kito View Post
My 2013 engine also failed at 84,000 miles. The Shrewsbury, MA BMW ($16,000 engine replacement); Hartford, CT BMW($10,400 engine replacement); Cicero, NY BMW where I bought it (referred me to BMW, NA). They all said I'm out of warranty and tough luck. BMW, NA wanted me to get a second diagnosis and no reimbursement by the third party. I already purchased a 2014 26k mile engine replacement. I didn't have time to waste and paid the $7000 for replacement.

What is the history of the 2014 X3 engines?
This site might help to answer some questions about TC issue on N20

https://bmwtechnician.com/
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      02-20-2019, 09:18 AM   #27
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Hmmm, not a good situation for you. I bought my 2012 X3 from original owner last summer- I knew of the chain guide issue in the early 4 banger motors as I follow the F30 sedan forum a bit, so I limited my search to non-turbo I-6 motor.

Unfortunately I think you already have your answer from BMW, but suppose nothing lost to give it another go- worst they can say is reiterate no repair at this point.

These Germans and their plastic parts, ugh. The old E39's with V-8 motors were known to have the plastic guides fail as mileage passed the 100K mark. You had an E46...you know all about the plastic cooling system stuff👎

Best of luck/Bill
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      02-20-2019, 11:44 AM   #28
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Thanks.
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      03-21-2019, 01:43 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer67 View Post
Thank you...

Agree.... I just replaced oil pan gasket on 2009 128i MT with 75K miles.
My e46 didn't have any seepage when it was 10 yo and about 70K on it.

And here I'm with 2014 53K miles...

Pics are not great since I wasn't planning to post them.
So what if anything are you planning regards your car?

This morning I pulled the lower front underbelly cover - see pics. Bit of oil on the transfer case, but not much. Everything else is bone dry, knock on wood. Car has 66K on the clock.

Bill
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      03-22-2019, 12:16 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer67 View Post
I have a 2014 X3 28i. I do know that my car is under that extended warranty.
As far as I know, all engines manufactured before (I think) 02/2015 are under that warranty. I have 53k miles. No issues so far. No noises. But...
I don't think I'll keep the car after warranty unless BMW will fix it before.
Also, I'd like to share my last experience with BMW CPO "warranty"...
I have my CPO till 12/2019. This is my 4th BMW and I'm really thinking it might be the last.
A couple weeks ago while changing my oil I took all under covers off just to inspect everything that could be visible for any issues.
I found a small oil leak that looks like is coming from between the motor and transmission. Oil pan gasket seems dry everywhere. So it's not a good sign.
Transfer case(box) was also covered with fluid but I couldn't really see where it was coming from. So I took a bunch of pics, send them to my dealer and scheduled an appointment thinking while it's under CPO they'd fix those leaks to prevent transfer case or engine issues in case those leaks will become worse. Man, I was wrong.
Those were not leaks but "seepage". And "seepage" is not covered by CPO.
Only when it'll start leaking they can look at it again. They put a dye into the motor and transfer case and told me to come back in 200 miles or so.
My adviser smiled when he saw my face and just said: "yes I understand but..." So this "seepage" will more than likely go beyond 12/2019 and then it will become a real issue for lots of $$$$ repair.
Have anybody seen a document from BMW " What CPO doesn't cover"?
I have. CPO is nothing but a marketing move to sell more used cars for more.
My advice to everybody to have a CPO car inspected either by INDY or yourself before you go for it. I think that most CPO's with low mileage are not even being looked at. Brakes and tires maybe. And even if they did and tech made a mistake or skipped something...oh well, not their problem.

Sorry for the long post....
I agree. I wouldn't keep it out of warranty.
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      03-23-2019, 08:06 AM   #31
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Is there any experience with a post-2015 N20 F25 achieving high mileage (more than 150,000 miles) with no engine related issues?
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      04-03-2019, 05:38 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wgosma View Post
So what if anything are you planning regards your car?

This morning I pulled the lower front underbelly cover - see pics. Bit of oil on the transfer case, but not much. Everything else is bone dry, knock on wood. Car has 66K on the clock.

Bill

Your transfer case looks very different than mine. Probably because your car has N52 motor.
It looks like that on your TC design it'll be easier to replace the gasket. Not sure about it but mine has 2 halves and the only way to replace a gasket on it would require taking it off and disassemble it completely......
You should check if yours is easier to fix in case you will need to later.
I'm sure you know that N52 is a good engine and you should be able to put a lot more miles on it if it's been taking cared of and you don't mind replacing VC gasket and oil pen gasket. Oil pen gasket is a pain to do but doable DiY.
Mine is N20 that I have no idea if it'll go another 1K or 40K before it grenades.
Some people are having wining noise as a symptom of the stretched chain and some have no symptoms before it goes.
I sent more pics to my SA and he told me he was going to send them to BMW rep who supposedly makes a call for warranty repairs.
If BMW will not replace it before CPO runs out I will get rid of the car. Unfortunately. And I'm pretty sure this will be my last bimmer.
According to BMW this transfer case has a "life time" fluid. It doesn't even have a drain plug like yours. And at the same time they tell me that CPO doesn't cover seepage...... BS... So that's where I'm at. Sucks....
I have a 2009 128i with manual with 75K. I'll keep that one for my son.
Good luck with yours.
Stan
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      04-03-2019, 10:07 PM   #33
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Best of luck Stan...not a good situation for you-maybe BMW will surprise and take care of the leakage issues, one can hope.
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      07-05-2019, 12:28 PM   #34
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just followed up this seeing what is happening, the judge cleared the way and told BMW they have a case to answer. I am sure i am not allowed to post link on website where you can view some of the details for Case No. 2:17*-cv-07386.

The people opening the case, are demanding BMW to make an official recall and fix all BMW timing chains regardless of status and to refund peoples money who have been affected by this..... BMW gave extended warranty however they knew it would not be enough. Timing chains are basically supposed to last a lot longer than a rubber belt (which is common knowledge and why people like a chain, saves on maintenance costs in long run)
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      07-05-2019, 02:19 PM   #35
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If the website is one which anyone can readily access via the internet, i.e. public domain, I can't see any reason you cannot reference it here- let us know.
Thanks/Bill
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      07-05-2019, 05:07 PM   #36
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I don't know a whole lot about how these types of cases work, but I'm hoping they get to some kind of a discovery phase soon. I want to see the statistics that BMW has been keeping related to the types of failures they have seen, under what conditions and the total number of vehicles that have had a repair, any kind of repair, caused by the defective timing chain guides. They should be able to obtain this information through discovery.
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      08-27-2019, 02:16 PM   #37
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Angry fake news?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riick View Post
Well that's fake news. BMW has an extended warranty on all 2013 N20 timing chains. 1 out of 25,000 are affected. If it hasn't failed by 75,000mi it's not going to fail due to the defect.
my 2013 328 timing chain failed at 82,000 miles two weeks ago bud. please tell me more of how this is fake news
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      08-27-2019, 02:40 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by cbland70 View Post
my 2013 328 timing chain failed at 82,000 miles two weeks ago bud. please tell me more of how this is fake news
He was clearly pulling shit out of his ass.
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      09-01-2019, 10:04 PM   #39
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Evening all, my 2013 X3 F25 2.8 also had lost power while on the highway a month or so ago. Luckily no one was hurt, but obviously it was a close one. Got it towed and inspected by the dealer. $350 later i was quoted $14,000 for engine replacement due to a broken timing chain. Car has been sitting in the driveway since then. 140,000 miles.
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      09-07-2019, 10:06 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendo2019 View Post
Evening all, my 2013 X3 F25 2.8 also had lost power while on the highway a month or so ago. Luckily no one was hurt, but obviously it was a close one. Got it towed and inspected by the dealer. $350 later i was quoted $14,000 for engine replacement due to a broken timing chain. Car has been sitting in the driveway since then. 140,000 miles.
This is unbelievable! 2013 X3 here had same timing chain problem last week. Wife almost got into a car accident on the freeway because the car just died. This also happened within a week of having the oil changed. The car is in the shop right now and we're not happy paying 10,000 for a car only 7 years old. Class action lawsuit needs to happen
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      09-07-2019, 02:22 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hemelverse@gmail.com View Post
This is unbelievable! 2013 X3 here had same timing chain problem last week. Wife almost got into a car accident on the freeway because the car just died. This also happened within a week of having the oil changed. The car is in the shop right now and we're not happy paying 10,000 for a car only 7 years old. Class action lawsuit needs to happen
Is yours the 2.8L straight six or the N20? This thread's about the N20 Mendo2019 posted about a 2.8L engine, which I don't think they offered stateside in 2013 so I assume he's talking about an engine offered in Europe?

The N20 issue is definitely class action worthy, it's a real problem.

Edit: location says he's in New Jersey so I'm guessing typo and he meant 2.0?
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      09-07-2019, 03:08 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OUGrad05 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemelverse@gmail.com View Post
This is unbelievable! 2013 X3 here had same timing chain problem last week. Wife almost got into a car accident on the freeway because the car just died. This also happened within a week of having the oil changed. The car is in the shop right now and we're not happy paying 10,000 for a car only 7 years old. Class action lawsuit needs to happen
Is yours the 2.8L straight six or the N20? This thread's about the N20 Mendo2019 posted about a 2.8L engine, which I don't think they offered stateside in 2013 so I assume he's talking about an engine offered in Europe?

The N20 issue is definitely class action worthy, it's a real problem.

Edit: location says he's in New Jersey so I'm guessing typo and he meant 2.0?
Correct, typo on my end, thanks. 2.0 N20 engine. Btw i reached out to the lawyers handling the lawsuit, provided info on my car and was advised that i won't benefit from it even if it's settled as my car has "too many miles" (140K). I'm actually typing this right now as i took a break from taking the engine apart to see what the actual damage is to the cylinders, valves etc.. here's a live photo for y'all.
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      09-07-2019, 03:43 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendo2019 View Post
Correct, typo on my end, thanks. 2.0 N20 engine. Btw i reached out to the lawyers handling the lawsuit, provided info on my car and was advised that i won't benefit from it even if it's settled as my car has "too many miles" (140K). I'm actually typing this right now as i took a break from taking the engine apart to see what the actual damage is to the cylinders, valves etc.. here's a live photo for y'all.
That's still ridiculous. Timing chains shouldn't fail. Not for several hundred thousand miles. Sorry you're dealing with this.
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      09-07-2019, 08:26 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OUGrad05 View Post
Is yours the 2.8L straight six or the N20? This thread's about the N20 Mendo2019 posted about a 2.8L engine, which I don't think they offered stateside in 2013 so I assume he's talking about an engine offered in Europe?

The N20 issue is definitely class action worthy, it's a real problem.

Edit: location says he's in New Jersey so I'm guessing typo and he meant 2.0?
I have no clue. I can tell you it's a BMW X3 from 2013 and turned off on the freeway almost causing a car pileup.


watch from 06:39 on as he describes the death of the car.

after watching this video and reading the comments it's definitely a real problem.
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